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Author Topic: [OLD] Porting FAQ  (Read 514238 times)

Vincewine

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #390 on: June 05, 2009, 08:00:03 AM »
Can i expand on that?, This mod turns mount and blade into the best game ever made  ;)

Thats why i really really want it for 1.011

DaBlade

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #391 on: June 05, 2009, 08:38:04 AM »
Thanks guys, we want it too ;)

octoburn

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #392 on: June 05, 2009, 10:07:10 AM »
Casimir:

I never equated werewolves as wizards. I was using wizards as a point of reference to show that how Tolkien uses a word or name isn't always the same as our preconceptions.

There's never a mention of a human taking the form of a wolf, in the sense that we term a werewolf now. The only time anything like that happens is when Sauron takes on the form of a wolf to fight Huan. And Sauron isn't human, and is a shapeshifter by nature.

Also, there is the mention of "wereworms" in the Hobbit. There are never seen any worms (or dragons, which Tolkien is usually referring to when using the word "worm") that are humans who change shapes. But, there is Smaug, he humanly intelligent and talking dragon. This does make me think that when Tolkien uses the prefix "were-" he's referring to human intelligence and speaking skills, not a shapeshifter.

Beyond that, werewolves are not mentioned after the Silmarillion. Although, don't some of the wargs talk in the Hobbit?

All of this is pretty pointless though, as they're never mentioned during the war of the ring. That, and as already mentioned, werewolves aren't all that compatible with the M&B engine. Check out Ron Losey's generic fantasy_themed mop "Dens of Lions" though. He has "lion bears" which are extremely fast and have no weapons, attacking with only their hands. I don't like it that much with this engine. It'd be better if there was a way to make them be able to bite as well, as I think that's where most of their lethality would come from (both lion bears and werewolves)

Offline Hamel

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #393 on: June 05, 2009, 11:54:44 AM »
Also, there is the mention of "wereworms" in the Hobbit. There are never seen any worms (or dragons, which Tolkien is usually referring to when using the word "worm") that are humans who change shapes. But, there is Smaug, he humanly intelligent and talking dragon. This does make me think that when Tolkien uses the prefix "were-" he's referring to human intelligence and speaking skills, not a shapeshifter.

All dragons in Tolkien's work were sentient and extremely intelligent, if I remember correctly. So a were-worm in that context would hardly seem something odd or unusual.

I believe the mention from Bilbo of the "Wild Were-worms in the Last Desert" was probably just something strange and fantastic that Tolkien threw into the hobbit to make things extra interesting, before his books started getting serious.

Were-worms do not really fit into The Hobbit's more serious successor, the Lord of the Rings, as Bilbo was the only person to ever mention them. It is entirely possible that they are so fantastic, they only exist in exuberant halfling tales and Bilbo's imagination.

Although, for some reason, when I hear Were-worm I always think of the Shai-Hulud, from the Dune novels.

Offline Llew

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #394 on: June 06, 2009, 05:33:36 PM »
Although, for some reason, when I hear Were-worm I always think of the Shai-Hulud, from the Dune novels.
It is what comes to mind.  ;)

MrFloppy

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #395 on: June 08, 2009, 09:56:21 AM »
Just wanted to troll a little bit and join the offtopic discussion :P

There are shape shifting characters in Middle Earth.
Werewolves are mentioned in the Sillmarillion and I think in one sentence in The Lord of the Rings. Also there is Beorn in the Hobbit. Tolkien mentioned him in a letter and told (whoever) that he (Beorn) was a shapeshifter. And then there is Sauron: some kind of human form, wolf, shape(?), eye. Also the Maiar can change/chose their form human like (Istari) or Balrogs but I think somewhere in the Silmarillion is mentioned that they can also chose an animal form.

Another thing: there is magic and some you can see (or not -> The Ring) and not only "strong" creaturs and stuff. I know, there are now fireball/lightning throwing creatures but magic exists and also magic done by creatures or things.

octoburn

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #396 on: June 08, 2009, 10:12:08 AM »
Never said that there aren't shape shifting creatures in middle earth. Everyone knows about Beorn, and I mentioned the fact that Sauron changes form already. Sauron is a Maiar by the way, so yeah, they can choose the form of an animal.

All I said was that nowhere are werewolves shown to change shape in Tolkien's work. I'm not 100% sure it's even mentioned if they were bipedal or not. I'll have to check when I get home.

MrFloppy

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #397 on: June 09, 2009, 03:54:04 PM »
Hmm now read that werewolves are cursed ghosts caged (-> is this the correct word?) into the body of wolves. So they're made by Sauron and not able to transform or able to walk on two feet.  :)

Offline Grocat

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #398 on: June 11, 2009, 05:26:37 PM »
So...it's settled then.  Beornings will be part of the game and will turn into bears for fun and danger.

-Grocat

Offline Arthadan

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #399 on: June 14, 2009, 06:40:22 AM »
Hi all,

I'm new here, so I think I should introduce myself first. I discovered Mount & Blade some months ago and I really love it. Since I'm a big Tolkien fan too, I'm really interested in this mod and i've been lurking here for some time already.

About the acyual discussion, there is a quote from LotR where Gandalf says there are werewolves in late Third Age:

Quote
'Because these horses are born and bred to the Service of the Dark Lord in Mordor. Not all his servants and chattels are wraiths! There are orcs and trolls, there are wargs and werewolves; and there have been and still are many Men [...]

The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, Chapter 1 (Many Meetings).

Tthe etymlogy strongly suggest an hibrid creaure (literally Man-wolf) and Tolkien used words with precission (and he was, of course, quite familiar with norse legends and Old English). So, I think it would reasonable to assume they were bipedal, following the traditional image of werewolves we all have seen so many times. However, I agree about they were not shapeshifters because that power in Middle-earth mithology is heavily restricted to Valar and Maiar who would lose it when meddling in the affairs of Middle-earth (of course there is the odd exception of Beornings whose origin is unclear).


Offline Merlkir

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #400 on: June 14, 2009, 06:45:03 AM »
I wouldn't think they were bipedal.  ??? In Silmarillion they were just big wolves with evil spirits.
Honestly, bipedal werewolves always look stupid - I think the "man" part was the "soul" - a spirit bound to the wolf body.
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Offline Hamel

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #401 on: June 14, 2009, 12:19:54 PM »
Yeah, Arthadan, I already mentioned that quote in the last page. :P

"Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor. Not all his servants and chattels are wraiths! There are orcs and trolls, there are wargs and werewolves; and there have been and still are many Men, warriors and kings, that walk alive under the Sun, and yet are under his sway. And their number is growing daily." - Gandalf, in the chapter "Many Meetings" (directly from the Fellowship of the Ring)

Werewolves were indeed mentioned in LoTR, as you can see above. That line may be where Samael heard them mentioned. Gandalf's statement also states that werewolves were still in the service of Sauron during the time of the War of the Ring.

MrFloppy

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #402 on: June 14, 2009, 01:13:46 PM »
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 01:22:23 PM by MrFloppy »

Offline Arthadan

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #403 on: June 15, 2009, 05:52:43 AM »
Merlkir, werewolves' spirits cannoy be Mannish ones:

Quote

So,Mannish soul must depart from Arda as general rule and it's not likely they are the source of werewolves. Then, where is the "Mannish" part in them? Also, they had a fortress in Tol-in-Gauroth  with a bridge and everything... how would wolves open the gates? I'm inclined to evil lesser Maiar as source of spirits and some level of shapeshifting. Anyway, if they were nothing but intelligent giant evil wolves... they would be wargs! Since Gandalf name werewolves as separate races of Sauron's minions, some difference should exist between them and wargs. "Warg" comes from "vargulf" which is a term to design wolves who killed many lambs but ate just a few, so they were taken as evil and specially dangerous. Here Tolkien keeps the old meaning and I think he also did with werewolves.

Hamel, sorry for repeating the quote. I'll pay more attention, I promise.   :-[

MrFloppy I agree with you werewolves can take wolf form when fighting, but I still think they would be shapeshifters for the reasons exposed above.

Offline Merlkir

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Re: Offiical TLD to 1.0 porting FAQ
« Reply #404 on: June 15, 2009, 06:20:10 AM »
Jeez, word picking much?
By a spirit I of course meant a spirit such as one of the ainur, not a soul of a man.

And bipedal werewolves are stupid. They were huge wolves! Carcharoth was a wolf and Sauron's "werewolves" were evil spirits put into big wolves. It's in the Silmarillion.
And no, that doesn't make them wargs.
1) wargs are smaller
2) wargs do not have an evil spirit in a wolf body, they're just animals.
3) they're not wargs.

Never it is said they were shapeshifters. Sauron once changed into a werewolf. Wicked, but Sauron was known for taking different shapes once in a while.
The fortress doesn't prove anything. Maybe they had servants, maybe the gates were magical. Hell, Beorn had horses that could carry cups and open doors, why couldn't werewolves do the same?

You're making stuff up.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 06:39:58 AM by Merlkir »
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