Hero & Blade 808 Z!

[Cartread]

Good points, thank you.

[Alec{zacool}]

I have an idea Cartread, put the first 2 quests back in, but have it maybe that the thief and wizard die or something like that.

Just a thought,

 Alec

[Cymro]

2 questions:

1)How long does it take to make a whole new quest?

and

2) How long would it take to "reformat" the first 2 quests into the 3/4 single player style?

[Cartread]

I don't know about that Alec The thief and wizard characters don't need to be present.  M&B isn't very magical so the elf is a good balance, but the wizard would be too much.

1)How long does it take to make a whole new quest?

2) How long would it take to "reformat" the first 2 quests into the 3/4 single player style?

I don't track the time, but I can estimate.
Considering I'm always testing new features (magic, upgrade system, etc.) as I'm implementing levels and testing them, it's hard to judge.
...let's see there's level layout, item modeling and texturing in Wings, into BRFEdit, into module system, checking graphic errors, putting in props, door-spawns,etc...playing the levels myself, testing difficulty...loading M&B up anew for every fix...
Probably takes 15-20 hours...

Reformat levels 1&2 and fit them into the module system, etc.?  Probably 5 hours or so.

[Metzger]

Any news of progress?
Or how the things are evolving?

[Ron Losey]

The wizard character would be fine if his magic was powerful enough to justify him.  He could just replace the archer type as a ranged unit ... try to hold the enemy at a distance.  That is, again, if his magic was adequate to actually stop multiple targets bearing down on him, at least theoretically.

[Cartread]

Any news of progress?
Or how the things are evolving?

I was on vacation and preparing school stuff, but I'm going to pick up today.

The wizard character would be fine if his magic was powerful enough to justify him.  He could just replace the archer type as a ranged unit ... try to hold the enemy at a distance.  That is, again, if his magic was adequate to actually stop multiple targets bearing down on him, at least theoretically.

Magic attacks are pretty buggy, so making a character based on that is kinda buggy.  The elf has a variety of magic, but can also fight hand-to-hand--how M&B combat is meant to work.  Both characters can also use bows.

[Ron Losey]

It's not just "bugs" - the magic attacks are not really balanced.  They need more punch, especially when the player's skill level is higher, to deliver the message that this is "magic" and not just throwing candles at your enemy or something.

And there's no reason the wizard shouldn't have short-range spells for hand-to-hand as well ... things like flame blade and burning touch are a part of most fantasy-type wizard abilities.  Then he could fight hand-to-hand, it would just look freaky.

[Cartread]

Well there isn't very many different types of magic attacks.  There are projectiles (firearms), power-ups like attack+, healing spells and then a couple odd ones like spawning a troop/weapon.

Do you have any other types of magic in mind?  Increase the magic's power overall for a wizard character?  Besides that, how do you think the wizard character would evolve?

[Ron Losey]

Spawning a weapon has great potential.  Invisible weapons that fire arrows of flame, that sort of thing.  Spawned shields, especially, could be used as protective spells.  Projectiles can have triggers added to them - on impact, they can cause the target to do whatever ... vanish in a puff of smoke, or turn into a frog, or anything else you can imagine.  Area effect is possible - that was done with potions in the Darklands-based mod.

This would not make the wizard particularly more powerful than anything else, but the sheer absurdity of turning foes into frogs and stuff would make him a cool character.  That plus area effect would make him seem stronger than he really was.  It's like "You turned him to stone?  Wasn't that overkill?"

The idea of having magic in a game is to make it seem, well, magical.  It's not just a tactical consideration, it's a fashion statement.
 

[Cartread]

Good points and ideas.  A new wizard character would be a good addition.

Spawning a weapon has great potential.  Invisible weapons that fire arrows of flame, that sort of thing.  Spawned shields, especially, could be used as protective spells.  Projectiles can have triggers added to them - on impact, they can cause the target to do whatever ... vanish in a puff of smoke, or turn into a frog, or anything else you can imagine.  Area effect is possible - that was done with potions in the Darklands-based mod.

I like the idea of a barrier-shield.  I hadn't thought of that.

Projectiles can cause triggers on impact?  Is that done by try_for_agents?  Area effect is also done this way?

[Ron Losey]

Couldn't tell you the actual command sequence ... I would have to look it up, and I'm not sure I could make it work then.  It has a line like "on_hit" something.  Figuring out what kind of script you want it to do "on hit" could take a lot more doing.  It's done the same way as the "ti_on_init_item" and "ti_on_weapon_attack" that are used to make the guns produce fire and smoke when used.

The source for the old Darklands mod is open source now ... you can look up their potions and find the programming sequences you need.  Just don't use the particle effects from that one - they would bog down the fastest graphics cards in the world.  Come up with something more simple.

[Hellequin]

Yeah, those particle effects were a stand-in waiting for someone who actually, y'know, knew something about particle systems to stand up.

Cartread - at this point you've got a whole lot of options in terms of making magic, the new module system opens up whole kinds of potential.  Just as an example, if you filled a 'hidden' room with frogs, (agent_set_position) could probably let you swap out a targeted orc, swap in a frog at the original position, prorate the frog's HP according to the original's, and presto (squish).  If you do decide to pursue it, I'd be willing to contribute some scripting effort to the cause.  Hero & Blade is cool.

[Cartread]

Yeah, those particle effects were a stand-in waiting for someone who actually, y'know, knew something about particle systems to stand up.

Cartread - at this point you've got a whole lot of options in terms of making magic, the new module system opens up whole kinds of potential.  Just as an example, if you filled a 'hidden' room with frogs, (agent_set_position) could probably let you swap out a targeted orc, swap in a frog at the original position, prorate the frog's HP according to the original's, and presto (squish).  If you do decide to pursue it, I'd be willing to contribute some scripting effort to the cause.  Hero & Blade is cool.

Thanks.  If I get it rolling, your coding genius would be appreciated.

I've been working on a different mod since H&B 808Z (a turn based, building type  ), and it is mostly finished, so I'll release that and see what people would like pursued.  I could go either way, but some disappointing "random dungeon" making for H&B has me edged off it recently.

[Metzger]

Nice to see that things are advancing 
Keep up the good work!