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Should Red Company field pikeman or glaive-men?

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Author Topic: The Return of Red Company - New mercenary troops, for M&B .808  (Read 33940 times)

Offline The Yogi

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    This will be a minor mod of Native, adding only what I think it lacks the most - a final goal.

RETURN OF THE RED COMPANY

THE STORY
In Zendar, two new NPCs can be found; Rostal, a grizzled Sergeant, survivor of the once famous but now defunct mercenary troupe Red Company and his charge Zeer, a bitter young Swordsister who dreams about nothing but revenge.

Adding them to your party will allow you to recruit all sorts of  Farmers and Peasants to form a new Red Company with unique troop types, but they will only do so in exchange for your promise to help them achieve their vengeance on the traitorous Lieutenant who caused the destruction of  the original The Red Company during the Vaegir Rebellion, and who murdered Zeer's father, the Captain of the Company.

In return for his services to the Vaegir cause, the traitor was rewarded with a Barony not far from Tulga. Since then he has gone renegade again, and now all of Calradia, Vaegir and Swadian alike fear the roving Dark Knights of Baron Radogh, Lord of Radoghir Castle!

If you accept, a quest will be added with the goal of taking Radoghir Castle (which will be VERY heavily defended by Dark Knights) and killing the Baron. I'll try to make it so that you won't even be able to consider launching an attack until very late into the game, and if possible (don't know if it is) also that you can weaken the garrisson by killing off groups of Dark Knights. There will certainly be a climactic final battle in the main hall of the Castle, when you get to cross swords with Radogh himself.

TROOP TYPES
Basic types
Recruit
   V
(mounted) Scout/Footman

Infantry
Footman
   V
Swordsman/Halberdier
   V
Mailed Swordsman/Halberdier
   V
Armoured Swordsman/Halberdier

Cavalry
Scout
   V
Horseman
   V
Mailed Horseman/Lancer
   V
Armoured Horseman/Lancer

Archers
Scout
   V
Archer
   V
Mailed Archer
   V
Armoured Archer

EDIT: To be able to get something out ASAP, the first version will only include the NPCs and troops of Red Company, not the quest itself.

DOWNLOAD the latest version (v0.11b)

Progress:
  • Red Company Troop types, including Recruits=> Footmen and (mounted) Scouts, => Three tiers each of Swordsmen, Pikemen, Lancers, Horsemen (Sword & Shield Cav) and Archers for a grand total of 17 new troop types! Done!
  • Conversion of Farmers and peasants to first tier Red Company recruits (lvl 5) through dialouge with Rostal. Done!
  • NPC Rostal Done!
  • Rostal dialogue Done! (although not quest-specific dialouge)
  • NPC Zeer Done!
  • Zeer dialogue Done! (although not quest-specific dialouge)
  • NPC Baron RadoghDone!
  • Baron Radogh dialogue Not Started!
  • Main QuestUnder construction!
  • Revamp of Rhadogir CastleDone!
  • Rhadogir Castle interior scenes Not Started!
  • Linking of fights with Dark Knights with Rhadogir garrisson Not Started!

...and (totally unrelated to the above)...

  • Removed Broadsword from all troop types and replaced with Falchion or Scimitar as appropiate (since they're oversized, ugly, ridiculous monstrosities without historical precedent and I hate them). Done!
  • Native swords are oversized - MIGHT resize them down to be to scale with people (about 80-85% of present size) and alter Reach accordingly. A bastard sword should be about the current length of a standard sword. Done in separate mod!
[/list]
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 04:38:44 AM by The Yogi »

Albino

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 07:49:52 PM »
Sounds great! Is it going to have any new models/textures?

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 03:16:33 PM »
Sounds great! Is it going to have any new models/textures?

Nope. This will be purely a script mod.

EDIT: I'm now wavering on that one. There might be some new armour textures eventually, and maybe also some changes to some existing models (nothing major though).

But there might also be a few sub-quests on the way, like finding a suitable HQ for the Company. The first one will be the Training Camp near Zendar, and later maybe Culmar Castle, all in order to prepare for the final assault on Radoghir Castle.

And maybe some reaction by the Baron... scripted, non-random battles, we'll see if I can manage.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 03:05:27 AM by The Yogi »

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 01:50:31 AM »
I'm adding a poll about the pole-arm infantry of Red Company. I had first envisioned pike-men, but then had a look at the glaive and am now leaning towards that as a more versatile weapon. What do you think?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 01:59:12 AM »
If you're using all Native equipment, you can throw in the RCM for Native for absolutely no effort ... just download it and insert the files. 

Could also be thrown in afterwards, again if all equipment is Native.

If you want to add/change a bunch of items ... well, that can be arranged too.

I agree that Native M&B needs a quest or goal, or at least some standard to measure accomplishment.  I hope you get this working.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 02:55:18 AM »
If you're using all Native equipment, you can throw in the RCM for Native for absolutely no effort ... just download it and insert the files. 

Could also be thrown in afterwards, again if all equipment is Native.

If you want to add/change a bunch of items ... well, that can be arranged too.

I agree that Native M&B needs a quest or goal, or at least some standard to measure accomplishment.  I hope you get this working.


I'm using RCM as I develop the MOD, but unless I decide to have some custom equipment in it, I will not include an items file. That way, you can either use RCM or not, depending on your tastes. I use it myself and love it!

If I end up attaching an items file, it will be based on RCM.

Thanks for your interest!

EDIT: BTW, I'll release a first beta very soon. It will include only the two new NPCs and the Red Company troops available through Rostal, not the quest/quests themselves.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 03:00:12 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 04:43:35 AM »
I'll put an announcement to that effect on the RCM Native thread.  Be sure, with the release, to point this out to would-be players ... not everybody inherently understands the concept of modular design.

Hallequin

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 02:12:31 PM »
Pretty good idea. Good luck.

And if you'll make it with the RCM, please upload a version without it, cause many people dislike it a lot.

Albino

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 05:28:59 PM »
Some people just don't like reality. :-\

Quail

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 05:34:18 PM »
It's up to him if he wants to upload two versions of the mod. Personally I would just do one (with RCM), and tell the people who don't like it, "Tough".

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 07:02:17 PM »
Pretty good idea. Good luck.

And if you'll make it with the RCM, please upload a version without it, cause many people dislike it a lot.

Actually, this is, I think, the first complaint I have heard about the system.  Granted, there was concern by a lot of people before they saw it, but after playing with it, most of those became great fans and supporters of the new model.  (I was skeptical, myself, until the first version was actually playable ... then I was hooked.)

Other than that, I would say the vote has been at least 99% in favor of converting everything in M&B to RCM.  The other 1% generally whine loudly, but if asked, admit that they have never actually played an RCM mod, and that their whining is based on suppositions and, in one case, the belief that all mods which edit weapon statistics were inherently the same.   ???

Who are these "many people"?  I haven't heard from them. :-\

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b out)
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2007, 12:59:53 AM »
I read in the taleworlds forums of some people who objected to RCM on the ground that while it adds realism to those features of medieval combat that are implemented in M&B, the lack of some other such features makes for game imbalances.

For example, they argued that RCM quite correctly makes it impossible to hack through full plate armour with a standard sword - but in real combat, you could use the half sword technique to punch through joints or other weak spots, so your sword would not be useless.

While I think that is a valid point, my experience is that using thrust (which halves armour protection) rather than cut, you CAN punch through full plate with an arming sword, at least when mounted. Maybe some slight rebalance of damage/armour stats would improve on the RCM so that even full black plate can be penetrated by thrusting with your sword - even on foot.

As far as play balance, I might beef up the lowest of the lowest opposition (river pirates) a tiny bit in future versions of the mod (give them some protection and at least a sprinkling of more powerful weapons).

ANYWAY, enough about that. The main thing is that v0.1b is OUT! :green:
http://www.mbrepository.com/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=10&lid=460
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 01:17:14 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2007, 01:54:20 AM »
Wait, that is a valid point for your mod.  The addition of true plate armors (not partial plate with noticeable gaps, but Gothic-type plate with reinforced joints) are unbalancing.  To be realistic, the only ways to damage that stuff with a sword was either to ride by very fast and just try to rattle the target to death by beating on the armor, or to get them completely down and, while two guys stood on them, to use your sword as a pry bar to try to get the armor open.  That is, after all, why swords were not the final solution to weapons design ... nobody would have developed the war hammer if swords would do everything.

And I've tried to jab blades through armor.  It's ineffective as heck.  Hacking on the armor and hoping to bruise the target is usually more reliable.  Sword points glance off of metal as this as auto-body steel, and there is little way to avoid it.  Half-blade grips on the weapon make you feel better, but they don't make the attack any more effective.

The RCM native version was created as a base-line for people wishing to use/experiment with it.  It was not done for game balance, because the Native items were not really balanced to any historical period or style either.  All the actual mods using RCM have changed the items to fit their situation, and history creates the balance.

Using all native items could create balance issues.  If you're expecting to see a lot of plate armor, the people who fight it will need specialized anti-armor weapons, or else a huge advantage in numbers.

I thought the plate armors were unbalancing in native too, but since none of the armors would stop blows as well as your face could absorb them, it did not really matter.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 02:03:32 AM »
Wait, that is a valid point for your mod.  The addition of true plate armors (not partial plate with noticeable gaps, but Gothic-type plate with reinforced joints) are unbalancing.

Oh, I completely agree. Given the overall state of weapons and armour in Native, I don't think full plate really belong there, even though apparently there was already full plate of sorts in use by the time of Agincourt. Still most other armour you can find seems to be of the XI to XIII centuries. Even XIV century stuff is mostly missing.

IF I ever do an items component to the mod, I might consider removing full plate altogether. But then I'd have to make some more textures for the mail and plate armours, so that they do not all look the same, given that they and coat of plates will be the top end armour.

The RCM native version was created as a base-line for people wishing to use/experiment with it.  It was not done for game balance, because the Native items were not really balanced to any historical period or style either.  All the actual mods using RCM have changed the items to fit their situation, and history creates the balance.

Using all native items could create balance issues.  If you're expecting to see a lot of plate armor, the people who fight it will need specialized anti-armor weapons, or else a huge advantage in numbers.

One thing to consider is that the antagonists here will be the Dark Knights, which are all encased in the very best armour there is. This could be a problem for the mod if using RCM. Best solution, it seems to me, would be to remove full plate armour alltogheter. I'm leaning towards that now.




BTW, why is it that different mail armours have so wildly different stats? (This goes for both native and RCM) I can see why a mail hauberk would give protection to the legs and a short mail shirt would not, but otherwise, would not one suit of mail protect pretty much as well as another?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 02:12:30 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 02:36:30 AM »
Along with legs, you also have arms and neck.  A vest or short-sleeve shirt of maille, or a breastplate of some sort, provides very intermittent protection.  A true hauberk covers the arms down to the gauntlets, and usually the neck (traditionally integrated into the coif).  A blade dragged across one (or an arrow deflected from it or whatever) will likely contact meat somewhere before the attack is finished, while the other will just hit more metal.

Also, maille comes in a wide variety of weights and designs.  Some poetic license was taken in estimating exactly how much maille we were talking about.  I mean, if you're going to make a small vest of maille, you probably want light.  If you're building something head-to-toe, you design for max protective value, since the chance for "light" went out the window long ago.  Weights can realistically vary by 300% or more for a given surface area, based on weight of wire and size of rings - and the protective value corresponds roughly to the weight.  This was not specifically stated, but it was not specifically denied either, so I had to guess.

And for the Native version, since I had no historical basis, I had to just throw things together based on how they were used previously.  (Since I didn't change the troops file.)  A much better set of examples exist in the Holy War beta, if it ever gets finished and released, and I'm working up something for ASLOW that will have a more feasible breakdown of armor weights, values, and deployment.  (ASLOW has been a project, for sure.  Fiction writing is MUCH more complex than history... and ex_otto is a decent writer, but he's not much of a fighter or an armorer.)

Of course, the only two mods with working RCM versions released right now are ONR and Mesoamerica, and both of them have highly specialized item lists.  You almost have to be an expert on Japanese combat to even PLAY Onin-no-Ran.  Neither of these help you much with game balance on what you are doing.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:03 AM »
Hmmm... If and when I get into balancing things, I hope I can bounce ideas with you.

The problem with plate and RCM is pretty urgent for this mod though. That might more or less require that I do some rough rebalancing before the main quest is ever implemented. Having roving bands of black knights in all but impenetrable armour is all well and good if you don not HAVE to take them on, but with them as quest antagonists, well that's a whole new game then.

Mind you, this is not a problem for me other than regarding the amount of work required to complete the mod. I would actually prefer to do away with full plate and have the dark knights in a dark-hued coat of plates and great helms. I'm just lazy. :)

EDIT: BTW, I notice opinion is leaning heavily towards glaivemen rather than pikemen. Unless that changes before next release, I will change the troops accordingly.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 03:37:00 AM »
If you're going to leave the plate armor in (or even use antagonists in heavy brigandine), your footmen need to go to either awlpikes or halberds - something that will punch holes in armor, even if it's a generally less effective weapon.  That or fewer polearms and more axes or hammers of some variety - the Vikings chose axes for a reason.

Heavy axes and hammers do a number on armor, as do certain crossbows.  The crossbows are generally restricted to footmen (at least the ones heavy enough to do what I'm talking about), but axes still work pretty good from horse.  And of course, couched lance always sends a message, no matter what you're wearing.  Really big swords can be effective against both horse and armored rider, but they have to be BIG swords ... just slashing at them with your 3-pound longsword will likely just make them angry.

Just don't go out there with some kind of saber, or a stick or something, and think you're going to cut down the human tank.  It just won't happen.

(I did allow halberds and other heavy polearms to be used to slash from horse, as the Lucerne Hammer and Bec-de-Corbin were ... but they're so clumsy that you probably don't want to try that.  It took a while to get the speeds tweaked where that would behave right.  The RCM lets you do a few things that you will later find to be a bad idea.)


And yeah, any more balance ideas, I'll try to help.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2007, 03:45:54 AM »
If you're going to leave the plate armor in (or even use antagonists in heavy brigandine), your footmen need to go to either awlpikes or halberds - something that will punch holes in armor, even if it's a generally less effective weapon. 

{...}

(I did allow halberds and other heavy polearms to be used to slash from horse, as the Lucerne Hammer and Bec-de-Corbin were ... but they're so clumsy that you probably don't want to try that.  It took a while to get the speeds tweaked where that would behave right.  The RCM lets you do a few things that you will later find to be a bad idea.)


And yeah, any more balance ideas, I'll try to help.


Halberds? There's halberds in RCM Native? I didn't see them! Otherwise, that would have been my first choice for polearm infantry, rather than pikes.

And thanks!

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2007, 03:52:50 AM »
Try "pole axe" ... halberd, pole axe, same darn thing.

The ones in Native are kind of funny-looking, but use your imagination.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2007, 06:43:26 AM »
OK, this is what I'll do; I'll finish the mod for Native, which was what I intended to do from the outset. It will be technically fully compatible with RCM, although I guess it will be EXTREMELY challenging, given the antagonistic role of the tank-like Dark Knights.

THEN, when v1.0 is out,  I'll do a "deluxe" version especially tailored to RCM and sort out the resulting balance issues. That will be the "directors cut" of "Return of the Red Company", in which I'll put in some changes to the items files, new textures etc.

I'm just afraid I'll end up trying to do graphics stuff (at which I suck), get disgusted and loose momentum and drive.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2007, 07:06:02 AM »
Borrow the graphics.  A lot of good weapon and armor graphics out there, that people will let you use if you give them some credit.  Since you're not aiming for any particular historical period, almost anything will pass if it fills the job.  (Historical mods don't get that luxury.)


Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2007, 07:58:07 AM »
Borrow the graphics.  A lot of good weapon and armor graphics out there, that people will let you use if you give them some credit.  Since you're not aiming for any particular historical period, almost anything will pass if it fills the job.  (Historical mods don't get that luxury.)

I'm sure there is. What i need, however, is some at least partially red armour for company troops. There is a red gambeson, which is great for low-tier troops. There is also a heraldic armour which works for mailed troops. For the armoured classes, however, there isn't much. The current coat of plates is dark grey and would be perfect for the Dark Knights, while the Mail and Plate is blue. But I guess I could change the "Light Mail and Plate" into a functional clone of it. That would solve that problem without any need of retextures, but I would prefer to retexture a few existing models with red, in order to avoid having too many troops looking exactly the same.

I would also like to retexture that lion's shield used as Company Arms in a somewhat redder hue.

Anyway, these are very small things, compared to what is done in major mods. I'll manage, one way or the other.

Pellidon

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2007, 09:22:44 AM »
Try "pole axe" ... halberd, pole axe, same darn thing.
that's not true, a halberd is essentially a spear with an axe blade on it. thrusting is an important part of a halberd, it has a long pointy thing on the end. the native pole axe doesn't have a spike on the end, making it a retarded weapon to use on a horse and making it less effective on foot. but i'm sure there are plenty of halberd models you could use.

about the red armor, it'd be pretty sweet to have retextured versions of the native plate armor with some red markings on it and some consistent logo/coat of arms on all of the armors.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2007, 10:56:54 AM »
I believe I said the pole-axe in Native was kind of funny-looking.  In reality, pretty much all long axes and hammers had some kind of spike, blade, or hook on the tip(s).

Pellidon

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 02:27:47 PM »
i guess that's just a matter of definition. i see halberds more as a type of spear than a type of axe. that's why i see it as a totally different weapon than the pole axe, which is an axe with a really long handle as opposed to a spear with an axe blade added on which is how i think of halberds. i guess it's just a pet peeve of mine, there's only a slight difference i suppose. sorry to waste your time on that.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2007, 06:42:54 PM »
i guess that's just a matter of definition. i see halberds more as a type of spear than a type of axe. that's why i see it as a totally different weapon than the pole axe, which is an axe with a really long handle as opposed to a spear with an axe blade added on which is how i think of halberds. i guess it's just a pet peeve of mine, there's only a slight difference i suppose. sorry to waste your time on that.

Well, it's a valid point ... just not really true by linguistics.  George Silver, "Paradoxes of Defence" 1599, listed the "Halberd, battle axe, and black bill" as heavy weapons that "are, or commonly ought to be, about five or six foot long, and cannot be used much longer because of their weights".  He thought that at least the English "halberds" of 1599 were some kind of heavy axe, so much so that he grouped them together.  He also grouped them together in the section on how to use them, as if he considered "halberd" and "battle axe" to be interchangeable terms.

As far as I can determine from history, most any weapon longer than about five feet needed to be used both as a spear and, unless it was clearly just a spear, some kind of hacking or slicing weapon.  Some were clearly balanced more for one than the other, but that varied from weapon to weapon.

Now, note that the Chinese "halberd" is not a hacking weapon at all, but more of a bladed spear.  In Japan, similar designs were called "kama-yari" - sickle-spear.  However, it seems to be the exception to the rule.

Kolba

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2007, 11:53:35 PM »
Sounds good! Downloading now!

Offline nema

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2007, 02:35:41 AM »
Yogi, please check a little armorers and weapon smiths. Are they as you want? Armorers sell weapons, and weapon smith nothing. Or it is just in my version? ;)

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2007, 02:42:55 AM »
Yogi, please check a little armorers and weapon smiths. Are they as you want? Armorers sell weapons, and weapon smith nothing. Or it is just in my version? ;)

I haven't touched those. The mod just includes troops and conversations files. There should be no way that the shops could've been affected - I think. As mentioned, I'm just starting up with python.

Did anyone else have this problem?

Offline nema

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2007, 02:55:17 AM »
Yogi, please check a little armorers and weapon smiths. Are they as you want? Armorers sell weapons, and weapon smith nothing. Or it is just in my version? ;)

I haven't touched those. The mod just includes troops and conversations files. There should be no way that the shops could've been affected - I think. As mentioned, I'm just starting up with python.

Did anyone else have this problem?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2007, 03:10:43 AM »
Confirmed that.  You have a bad bug.  Zendar armor merchant has weapons, weapons merchant has zilch.  Probably something missing in your conversation file, such that the conversation doesn't flag to the right merchant screen.  (That IS where stuff like that is stored.)

Tragically, my skill with Python is nowhere near good enough to help you run it down.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2007, 03:15:04 AM »

Confirmed that.  You have a bad bug.  Zendar armor merchant has weapons, weapons merchant has zilch.  Probably something missing in your conversation file, such that the conversation doesn't flag to the right merchant screen.  (That IS where stuff like that is stored.)

Well, that is actually good news. Because if it is the dialogue file that is screwed up in the release, then the problem has already been unwittingly fixed since. I'm playing the mod myself and don't have that problem, although there have been a few changes since the release.

I'll put out a fixed version tonight. Sorry for this!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 03:16:51 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2007, 03:17:57 AM »
That worked out easier than expected, then ... even if we have no idea how or why.

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2007, 02:59:17 PM »
That worked out easier than expected, then ... even if we have no idea how or why.

Alas, not. I tried doing a fresh copy of native, and installing the mod on that. The same problem you describe appears. I copy and paste the dialouge file from my working mod directory... same problem. I start a new game in the working mod directory with the very same dialouge file... NO PROBLEM.

I can only conclude that the problem can not be located in the dialogue file, but rather stems from the absence of some other txt file. From now on, the mod will include all the txt files that are in native, weather I believe I have changed them or not. By not including the native BRFs and the such, the download should still be very small. New version will be up within an hour or two.

Offline Fisheye

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2007, 07:33:24 PM »
Red stuff is easy... just use vertex coloring on an existing armor (e.g. plate armor). You don't even need a new texture.

By the way you're welcome to add your storyline onto the Band of Warriors base code if you want.... check the Taleworlds thread for the source download.



Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2007, 01:47:59 AM »
Red stuff is easy... just use vertex coloring on an existing armor (e.g. plate armor). You don't even need a new texture.

By the way you're welcome to add your storyline onto the Band of Warriors base code if you want.... check the Taleworlds thread for the source download.

Bear in mind I'm a complete Noob when it comes to graphics editing. Assume I know nothing about anything in that area. I did manage to do a creditable red mail and plate by using floodfill in PSP. I'll check out the vertex coloring thing... is it a function in BRF edit?

I'll be sure to check out Band of Warriors then.

By the way, new bugfixed version (0.11b) is OUT! All the txt.files of native are now included EXCEPT the items file, so that the mod is still fully compatible with RCM. Just paste all files into a copy of the Native module (or into Native itself, if you remember to back up all files).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 01:56:10 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Fisheye

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2007, 03:32:43 AM »
Bear in mind I'm a complete Noob when it comes to graphics editing. Assume I know nothing about anything in that area. I did manage to do a creditable red mail and plate by using floodfill in PSP. I'll check out the vertex coloring thing... is it a function in BRF edit?

Yeah that's why I'm suggesting to use that possibly as a placeholder. Anyone with graphics editing skills would do much better in Photoshop; a good recolor probably takes an hour tops for a skilled person. Not to say you can't sometimes get good results with just vertex painting; the red and blue gambesons are products of vertex painting. But you kind of need the base item to be light colored and you lose the highlights so it tends to have best results on non-reflective costumes like cloth leather etc.

"Vertex Painting" is the box on the first page of BRF Edit. Can't miss it. Select your color, paint mode-> Paint, and click on your model to spray red onto it.

If it looks like you're making everything look bloodstained, that's because that's exactly how the game engine paints blood onto your clothes.


P.S. Your "red company" theme is somewhat similar to what Hardcode and I had in mind for our revamped Sword Sister line - a variant of troops which only the player can have, which have unique capabilities: in our case, the ability to be completely adaptable and be able to reconfigure from mounted to foot, melee to ranged, etc with player commands.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 04:00:48 AM by Fisheye »

Offline The Yogi

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Re: The Return of Red Company - A main quest for Native (v0.1b is out!)
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2007, 04:11:32 AM »
P.S. Your "red company" theme is somewhat similar to what Hardcode and I had in mind for our revamped Sword Sister line - a variant of troops which only the player can have, which have unique capabilities: in our case, the ability to be completely adaptable and be able to reconfigure from mounted to foot, melee to ranged, etc with player commands.

Cool! I was considering the possiblity to dismount Red Company mounted troops before a battle. While it can be done ingame, when it comes to lancers, the dismount would also make them grab a sword or axe instead of the lance, making them useful foot troops (otherwise they'd be worthless for the storming the castle in the final battle).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 05:09:45 AM by The Yogi »

Offline Fisheye

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Yeah that functionality is already coded in BoW.

As in, if you give an npc hero: a rusty knife and a great lance, then order to fight on foot, he'll use the rusty knife.

I think what you need is a minor modification where a if a red company non-hero troop only has lances then when you order a "enter combat dismounted", he automagically gets an arming sword. It's very easy to implement.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 09:09:06 AM by Fisheye »

Alec{zacool}

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Hey, this mod sounds good! I  wish you good luck in it.

Offline Ron Losey

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Yeah that functionality is already coded in BoW.

As in, if you give an npc hero: a rusty knife and a great lance, then order to fight on foot, he'll use the rusty knife.

I think what you need is a minor modification where a if a red company non-hero troop only has lances then when you order a "enter combat dismounted", he automagically gets an arming sword. It's very easy to implement.

What you need is to just make sure that there aren't any troops who only have lances.  That is, after all, also an issue if their horse goes down during the fight.

Offline Fisheye

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What you need is to just make sure that there aren't any troops who only have lances.  That is, after all, also an issue if their horse goes down during the fight.

That's actually true... check my Sword Sisters (you can switch them to lancer mode with orders "Enter combat mounted" + "Equip polearms".)

Essentially you have "lancers" who default to "mounted"+"polearms only", but you can order them to equip melee only or have a mix. Haven't implemented troop-specific commands though, but that's really easy to add.

None of this works without my scripts though. I.e. especially not in vanilla.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 06:10:53 PM by Fisheye »

DarkAnd

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i have a few thousands of textures to make red shields if you want i can send the images to you chose and say to me make

Offline The Yogi

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With the new .890 version of M&B and the improved war system in it, I don't see much point in continuing with this mod. If there's any interest in it, I might try to port over the Red Company troop tree and the two new NPCs. The main quest idea is a bit moot in the new setting though.