Author Topic: Reallistic Combat Model for Native  (Read 249178 times)

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2007, 10:39:21 pm »
Angle the throw on your axes manually.  Set the cross-hair at like a 45 degree angle above your target.  Same for stones, and to a slightly lesser degree, javelins.  The only way to limit range is to force manual elevation by lowering velocity... so I did.  That should give the axes an effective range of 30 feet or so ... about all you get out of a thrown hatchet.


Glad you enjoy ... it's been a lot of fun to put it together.

grailknighthero

  • Guest
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2007, 05:00:40 pm »
Hey Ron they changed how much damage a couched lance does.  I was riding around couching people and doing 0-7 damage!  My setting was at your setting of .11.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2007, 06:16:39 pm »
Hey Ron they changed how much damage a couched lance does.  I was riding around couching people and doing 0-7 damage!  My setting was at your setting of .11.

Clarify ... who changed what when?

Because it was intentionally set so that only substantial weapons and solid hits would result in first-hit disabling wounds.  I was trying to get rid of that effect where riding by and clipping somebody with a mop handle does a gazillion points of damage.  If your weapon was minimal, your skill low, and/or your target wearing heavy armor, the attack should not be extremely effective.  Only a very solid hit should be immediately disabling.

For medical reference on that, consider that many pedestrians and bicycles are clipped by cars every year ... and a fair number of those people walk away from the accident.  The approach speed of a charging horse is the same way ... it delivers tremendous force, but the force still has to be concentrated somewhere solid in order to have any real effect.  It's not a given that just touching them with the weapon will kill them just because you are on a horse.

However, if you mean that the code has been changed between versions and that now nothing ever works ... I need to know what version you are talking about.

grailknighthero

  • Guest
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2007, 06:48:47 pm »
Im talking about after I ported my version to .901 couched lancing did nothing because no matter how I hit them I did less than 10 damage and they had light armor(armor value under 30) and I had a lance that did about 30-35.  I know they have messed with couched lance damage because the RCM worked with couched lances in .894 but now it does less than 10 damage.  They also messed with how you couch as well by increasing the amount of time it takes to couch your lance.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 06:51:48 pm by grailknighthero »

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2007, 07:10:35 pm »
OK ... General Note:

RCM for .89x has NOT been re-calibrated for .90x

Use at your own risk.


I have not had time to go over what has been changed.  I will do that eventually, but for now, there is no RCM version for .90x Native.  You might be able to hot-wire the .894 version to run in .90x, or you might not.

On that note - any notes, observations, or comments on things that have been changed are useful.  (I'll start with that last one ... couched lance damage modifier is calculated differently.)

I will get this thing up to speed eventually, but it may take some time.

grailknighthero

  • Guest
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2007, 10:23:14 pm »
Take your time because who knows about how many patches there will be.  It took you awhile to get the .89x version up and it is still in the first week of the current release.  The current version is fine for me until you get a new version up although I havent tested it much but Ill make temporary changes if I see anything too distorted.  Maybe you should ask Armagan what he changed with items so you know what to fix.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2007, 10:33:27 pm »
Take your time because who knows about how many patches there will be.  It took you awhile to get the .89x version up and it is still in the first week of the current release.  The current version is fine for me until you get a new version up although I havent tested it much but Ill make temporary changes if I see anything too distorted.  Maybe you should ask Armagan what he changed with items so you know what to fix.

Any and all help in bug-hunting always appreciated.

Asking Armagan seems to always result in a partial list or irrelevant information of some kind.  I get the feeling my attempts to communicate with him were not quite getting through.  I'll go through it trial-and-error first ... that's the most systematic way I've found so far.

Offline hayate666

  • Journeyman
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2007, 02:23:03 pm »
Still got my results of last test I did for RCM. I can try if I can get the same results I got before on couched lance damage and arrow damage, but perhaps there are other problems with the damage formula that need to be sorted out. What do you think Ron?

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2007, 06:54:26 pm »
Still got my results of last test I did for RCM. I can try if I can get the same results I got before on couched lance damage and arrow damage, but perhaps there are other problems with the damage formula that need to be sorted out. What do you think Ron?

Haven't really had time to look at it yet.  Not that well, anyway.  But yeah, collect some numbers on whatever seems to be "off" ... see if we can find a pattern.


Edit:  It looks like the melee damage model is still the same from .89x - minus the changes to the lance multiplier. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 08:21:10 pm by Ron Losey »

Offline hayate666

  • Journeyman
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2007, 05:36:54 am »
I've tried installing RCM for 0.91, but I wasn't able to. Apparently some meshes of some kind have changed. I'll wait with testing it untill a conversion is operational.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2007, 06:27:46 am »
I've tried installing RCM for 0.91, but I wasn't able to. Apparently some meshes of some kind have changed. I'll wait with testing it untill a conversion is operational.

Bunch of new items have been added.  I'll have to go over it line by line to make sure what has been changed.  Stand by ... it's been kind of a busy week.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2007, 09:45:36 pm »
Everybody:

This should do it for .901

http://rapidshare.com/files/74147766/RCM-native_901.zip.html


Couched lance damage multiplier has been changed.  I doubled what I had before, and it seems to work ... no promises there.  Also, the new items have been added (all those books and such) so it is now compatible with 0.901 native.  Everything else seems to be pretty much the same.

As always, there may be some bugs.  Report them as you find them.

Offline hayate666

  • Journeyman
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2007, 06:33:14 pm »
Doubling the couched lance damage seems a bit too high. At 22, all 30 of my test targets fell in one blow at the lowest speed possible on horseback with a couched boar spear (Damage 36, PS 5). I've tested against poorly armoured mountain bandits, river pirates and farmers. I've tried somewhat lower numbers, namely 19, 17 and 15. 17 seems to generate good results so far, with 3/5th of my test subjects falling in one blow at the lowest possible speed. At 19, about 5/6th fell in one blow. It's 15 I'm happiest about however. 1/2nd of the test subjects fell in one blow at the lowest speed possible.

Worth noting: Results got more random the lower I got. At 15, results varied between 3/5th and 1/2nd, mostly depending on being bare chested or not. At 17 and 19 results were more consistent. With all the numbers the targets were dead in one blow at full speed.

Archery seems good so far. I've been shot at by a variety of projectiles while wearing Light Plate and the results are consistent with what I found earlier. Javelins to the head hurt :green:

I've noticed one oddity. Some weapons vary largely between no damage at all or a one hit kill. Especially the two handed weapons seem to suffer from this. Might just be a coincidence though, since I didn't notice anything strange while I let myself be mobstabbed by crossbowmen with two-handed cutting weapons. Damage was 0 most of the time, sometimes between 5 and 9 and very rarely it was around 40. The jump between 9 and 40 seems a bit high.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2007, 10:30:52 pm »
Actually, the large variation is quite realistic.  When armor (any armor) gets hit with a weapon (any weapon), one of several things could happen.  The armor could deflect or completely absorb the blow - 0 damage.  The armor could mostly or partially stop the blow, resulting in very low damage, either from the weapon or from the impact between the armor and the wearer.  Or, if the weapon does actually cut a place on the armor in such a way that it contacts meat, the damage will still be very serious.

Realistically, the difference between them is more a question of strike placement, good form, strength of the user, and the like than it is a question of the weapon.  For example, in modern crime, every stabbing does not do equal damage - issues of who is attacking, how they attack, and just plain old dumb luck can make huge differences.  Likewise, hacking with a sword could do the same thing - two seemingly equal cuts could be one that hits a hard plate on the armor and deflects, and a second that hits a soft spot and goes through with substantial remaining force.  A skilled attacker will encourage the latter, but that is far from assured.

So that variation is intentional, and as it were, one of the initial objectives of the RCM project.

-------------------------
On the lance numbers, your results seem a little better than mine.  Did you have some points in power-strike?  Or relatively high skill?

Be sure and test against some medium armors as well.  A decent lance or spear from horse should be at least moderately effective against medium armors.

Offline hayate666

  • Journeyman
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2007, 01:30:04 am »
I tested it with power strike 5 and 100 skill in polearms. It's a bit higher than the 3 I usually test with, but players that are dedicated to melee shouldn't have any trouble getting up to that rather quickly. I'll test it against medium armor somewhat later. It takes a little more time, because those damn sea raiders hurt. Hitting them at low speeds is practically impossible.