Author Topic: Reallistic Combat Model for Native  (Read 189678 times)

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #390 on: April 17, 2010, 07:27:59 PM »
I've seen quite a few mods out already on Talesworld, for both Multi Player and Single Player. One MP mod is a cooperative mod, where you stand against NPC invaders with your fellow players. Another changes gameplay stuff, and scenes for tournament in SP. There's also some item and troop edits, and improved textures.

Possible that these are all done without the modding system, but I don't know.


EDIT: If for some reason Talesworld doesn't give you the formula, there are some ways of doing it. Edit the Looters numbers to be in extreme abundance, with relatively large groups.
Set Damage to Player to 1/4 and cheat yourself the best armour (problem, this'll make it harder to test speed, and you'll needto meet the STR Reqs), if necessary.
Should there still be problems with their OPed rocks, might need to edit your armour into the stratosphere or invincibility, and edit the Flinch numbers to something they can't possibly reach--while you're at it, change the STR req and weight values to 0.
An extra thing you could do is edit the Looters themselves, giving them 0 Athletics, and 1 (or 0) point(s) of Agility, to make them easy-to-hit targets. Can export your character then put Athletics up to 10, if you want to make it even easier to catch them, without having to edit your stats and possibly the damage numbers.


That's the fallback option. Sadly, my competence with most of the editing is little, so I'm unsure as to how I could help if it came to that :(.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 07:14:14 AM by Conners »

Offline Shik

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #391 on: April 18, 2010, 10:31:41 PM »
Actually the modulesystem has already been released. It can be found in the downloads section of the main site.
I made a test using RCM numbers in the items file and module.ini file for warband, and the results were completely different from M&B classic - damage seems to have inflated greatly.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #392 on: April 19, 2010, 08:27:43 PM »
OK, I'll look it up when I get some time.  (Still having time constraints and nonsense from computers...)

Wish I knew exactly how much the calculation has changed, and how.

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #393 on: April 27, 2010, 12:50:54 AM »
Someone apparently made a mod where you can kill tons of horses. I asked them to give me a download link so I can pas it on to you. Probably be easier if the talesworld folks gave up the formula, of course.

The post is here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,109651.15.html

Not to hijack the thread... Sorry!

If you have a conversation with Ron about how to test new damage numbers in Warband I came up with a, hmm, solution.  It involves beating on horses instead of other objects.  I can give you or him a mod that will let you just kill horses over and over.

You can increase a horse's armour if needed too, the only problem is the things try to run away so you have to block them, might want to design a scene where they won't be able to run.  I can make this mod available to anyone who wants to test damage really, although it would definitely be preferable if Taleworlds just explained how it works.


Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #394 on: April 27, 2010, 09:55:00 AM »
Well, if going that far, just hijack the tutorial guys ... strip them of weapons, and then run the tutorial and whack them as many times as needed.  Or the arena teams.

But that doesn't fix the problem any better than whacking target dummies ... the problem is figuring out what formula the game uses, accounting for various stat modifications (skill, power whatever, etc.).

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #395 on: April 27, 2010, 07:02:50 PM »
Well, yes, but I figured it'd make it easier to test. Any reply from Talesworld?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #396 on: April 27, 2010, 09:08:30 PM »
Someone else will have to deal with Taleworlds.  Not only can I not stand the board over there, but the last few notes I sent to the developers resulted in replies that did not answer the question.  Someone else can be frustrated for a while.  (Not like I really have time to deal with it anyway, right at the moment.)

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #397 on: April 28, 2010, 03:51:19 AM »
I posted something, hope someone there can help. Anything in particular you want me to ask about? Speed rating, effects of power draw and strike, whether STR effects damage or any other details like that, anything else?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #398 on: April 28, 2010, 05:23:32 AM »
And if possible, the formula in general.  Damage used to be calculated as between .5 and 1.0 of the rated value of the weapon, plus or minus all of those modifiers.  (Starting in .890, different kinds of strikes also had different modifiers.)  Somebody said that the new numbers were much higher, somehow.  The details of how, exactly ... that would be the key missing component.

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #399 on: April 28, 2010, 06:23:09 AM »
Well, from my testing, it seems to be 1.0x, but with a randomness. So it could be anything from 10 to 18 on the exact some strike. There was a bit of difference between the striking methods I noticed, unless it was speed bonus/penalties. Side swings seemed to do less than up swings.

I asked in the post, hoping to get something for you.

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #400 on: May 06, 2010, 08:53:03 AM »
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Conners matey,

I'll see what I can do for you, I am designer not a programmer so I'll ask the C++ crew :)

Cheers,

Mikail
This was from Yaazy. I hope to hear from him again soon.

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #401 on: May 18, 2010, 01:11:00 AM »
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Conners,

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to you.  I'll tell you what I could gather thus far, and if I can get anything else I will email you.

There have not really been any huge changes from the way the calculations worked in MB to MB:Warband.
And there aren't really any concrete formulas per se, everything changes based on physics,etc. So I can't really give you a standard formula from a file.

Anyways if I can get something else I'll message you, sorry I couldn't be of more use.

Cheers,

Yazzy
Yazzy has been very helpful, and is continuing to be. However, they're no a programmer and  I'm not sure about the physics of things myself, either. What sort of questions should I try asking now?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #402 on: May 18, 2010, 07:32:23 AM »
I mean that we need the game physics calculation.  For example, previously (before .890) the base weapon damage calculation was 50 to 100% of rated damage, plus or minus variables (skills, power whatever, velocity modifier if either party were moving).  In .890 and following, this was modified significantly for type of attack used - and I never got the complete details, but I estimated and got a workable conversion.

Word seems to be that the base calculation has changed a LOT more in Warband.  I need that formula, and I need it to be correct, and I really don't have the time or energy to solve for it by reverse engineering (which could take forever).

If everything is like .890 - 1.0x, then the armor computation (including how it reacts to particular damage types) can be adjusted in the config file.  But the base damage calculation is critical to the conversion.

Offline Conners

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #403 on: May 18, 2010, 07:42:39 AM »
I noted the 50% to 100% thing specifically to him, so he'll hopefully tell me whether that's the same, or things to that light. He said there wasn't any concrete formula as such, and that it was physics--which sounds like it's hard to describe, or he isn't sure how to describe it. Should things get too awkward, I can try to get into contact with a/the physics coder on it.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Reallistic Combat Model for Native
« Reply #404 on: May 18, 2010, 10:25:02 PM »
There is a formula.  Those numbers have to go somewhere.  The computation may be complex in order to give the illusion of some set of physical properties, but there is a formula.

Even actual physics in the real world is done with formula computations.  Issac Newton wrote half of the ones commonly used.