Author Topic: Content queries & Suggestions  (Read 29299 times)

Offline Hellequin

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Content queries & Suggestions
« on: January 16, 2007, 10:38:02 AM »
Please feel free to post your questions about existing content (how does brewing work?), possible content (will you have wolves, etc?), or suggested content (you should include an X in your mod!) in this thread.

Coming soon to this space there will be a FAQ about the content.

Thread created from the original Schattenlander thread, so there may be some apparent gaps and non-sequiturs.  I've attempted to minimize these, but the first three pages of this thread may not all make perfect sense if read in sequence.  After that the thread is its own entity and should make as much sense as anything here.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 12:27:28 PM by Hellequin »

jeansberg

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Content queries
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 01:35:30 PM »
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Shall I send you my email address so you can bounce those sound files to me?

For the bell sounds, I was thinking old world church bells, huge monster iron things, more than the sweet tone of tubular bells (yay Oldfield!) in the files you sent me, but you're the maestro, not I; if this one says "early Renaissance German cathedrals" to you, then rock on.

And for the Latin bits, you have some time; prayers aren't going to be implemented in battle on this release, unless I get really really inspired.  When we get closer to time, if you haven't found anything better, might it work to just take one of the ones you've found, damp the dynamic range a fair bit especially in the treble (I can of course play it softly), and up the tempo a teeny bit for tension?

You could give me your e-mail address actually.

The 'aah'-sound and the church bells are both in stereo. That means those sounds will always play at the position of the player. That shouldn't matter since those sound effects will not be emitted from a specific position related to the player, right? If they only play during menus, it should be ok, plus it sounds a bit better.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 12:29:11 PM by Hellequin »

Offline Hellequin

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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2007, 02:52:30 PM »
Email address coming by PM.

As for the location of sounds, I do expect to use the "aaah" sound during battle... but there's nothing in the system (apart from the enigmatically unexplained [options] parameter in the play_sound operation) which would actually let me, using the module system, cause a sound to have a source location, source troop, or anything else.  Are you saying that the player will always be the source location, when on the battlefield?  That's okay.

I like the stereo thing in any event.  If I'm handling them during battle (and get this far down the "realism" task list), I can always tune at least the volume for distance from the person doing it, even if I can't affect directionality.  Anyway, if a player's homing in on his companions onfield by listening to the sounds of their prayers being fulfilled, I think they have other issues to work out... :)

Offline LCJr

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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 06:08:41 PM »
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3) Need a couple of random encounters other than the thugs.  Infrastructure's all there, it's just implementing them that needs to happen now. Partly done.  More on the way.

Will you be able to do the wolves and boars or are you limited to humans only?

Offline Hellequin

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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 07:49:04 PM »
Well, there are two answers to that.  The easy one is that right now, not only do we only have human and horse skeletons, but only humans can be made to actually attack, and even if you put a different apparent shape on either the hitboxes don't change, so you'd still get "head shots" way above the wolf's back or whatever. So on the face of it, we're limited to humans only.

But.  I am an exceedingly clever chap, and have some solutions in mind for how to handle some of those encounters anyway, and although they won't be perfect replicas of the way the originals worked (straight-up combat, more or less), they should be interesting, challenging, and entertaining if they work the way I want them to.

However, those will definitely not be in place for the upcoming v0.1 release.  In fact, unless a skilled modeler comes out of the woodwork or I'm able to broker a deal for some wolf and boar skins, soon, they likely won't make it into the v0.2, either.  But they'll certainly be in by the time I'm willing to declare v1.0, far off in the future as that is.

Merentha

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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 06:27:33 PM »
For wolf skins, either Yoshiboy or Ancientwanker might be ones to talk to. 

Offline Fisheye

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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2007, 01:48:04 PM »
Given your success in the scene prop manipulations stuff, I think a new potion with a name like Al-Kwarizmi's Levitation is a must-have for your first release.

Combined with something like "Mondago's Inertial Barrier" to give temporary immunity to arrows (via a one-way barrier).... that would make enemy alchemists a force to be reckoned with.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 01:50:07 PM by Fisheye »

Offline Hellequin

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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2007, 03:12:32 PM »
First one's a good idea; not sure I can do a one-way barrier.  In either event, it's not making it into the first release; my success (ish? there's still some doubt there) has made it possible for me to include a surprise in the first release, but I do want to still work up some additional random encounters and I have a LARP to attend tonight, so time's tight as it is.

But yes - I think the (eventual) fights with gargoyles and demons and spiders just got a lot more interesting...

Offline Winter

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Content queries
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2007, 08:32:50 AM »
First one's a good idea; not sure I can do a one-way barrier.

All barriers are one-way. The red side blocks, the green side lets things through. Both sides block weapons fire, however.

Inconsequentially,
Winter

Offline Fisheye

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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 08:53:11 AM »
This is all untested, but it might work:

I was thinking a very small cylindrical collision object enclosing the agent.

The agent is not able to move (much), of course, being blocked on all sides.

Melee weapons (of decent length - i.e. anything more than a dagger) will be able to swing through it and hit the enclosed agent. The agent can turn and hit back with melee. Based on my understanding of swinging through walls in v0.75 this will work; not sure if it changed with v0.8 with damageable scene props.

Missile weapons probably have a chance of sticking in the collision mesh without harming the agent.

Offline Hellequin

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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2007, 09:33:24 AM »
That changed - briefly - in, like, 0.800 and 0.801.  Swordstrokes were being stopped by walls; but it also generated the ten zillion "couched lance damage" messages, and presumably some other issues, so now we're back to swinging through walls.

Thing is, I'm not going to bet on that staying true.  I don't have that much faith that Armagan isn't going to find a clean way to do them in the next version, and swords will stop going through walls.

Also, as Yoshi said, the conjunction of agent trying to move one way and scene prop animating another remains very very risky.  All I've tested is vertical movement, a direction in which the agent has no mobility on his own.  I have some ideas which might strengthen the blocking effect, but we'll have to wait and see.

And Saijonas - good to see you back around!  Once I'm done with my current frantic release stuff, I'll see what I can come up with.

Offline KON_Air

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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 02:17:47 PM »
I just couldn't stop myself from doing a new main bmp for mod selection;


so, yeah, it is resized original box art.

maw

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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 11:47:41 AM »
ok. i'm playing it, and...

* it shows a lot of work, talent, and knowledge. kudos to all the participants.
* shows much more promise
* has some neat stuff, most importantly the alchemy and the menu-driven system

and you all are rightly to be praised.

now, for meh... and respectfully and admiringly aware of this most excellent and complicated work in progress...

1. Menus
everything i liked about Darklands was the interaction, events, backgrounding, etc. the menus back in the day were new and exciting, because there was no alternative. in the years gone by, and after playing Darklands again recently and MBS (umm, short for m&b shattenlader) i realize how easily i am over-menued.

i don't get the impression i am in a larger city. dunno why. i just don't. i did a test a while back in a city expansion discussion where in a scene i put in four doors, allowing not entry into a house, but entry into a different part of the town. believe me, that works better these days. with the m&b visit once then jump to menu system, it'd shorten some walking.

although a painstakingly copied the Darkland menuing, it really needs to be condensed in some way, i have no sense of excitement or movement that i get through the common m&b format. playability needs excitement.

2. character creation
much in common with menuing, thank God or Allah or Buddha or whoever it only happens at the beginning of the game. i don't miss the complexity of the original Darklands, and again, having become accostumed to the flexibility of the base m&b system, i'm almost tired out before i get to the tavern at start. add either ctd, lockup, (neither of which i critcisie, as it is v.1), and getting my ass seriously kicked, if and when i restart i find i spend quite a bit of time setting up my character. i would think that simply allowing four choices with a formatted selection of skills/abilities based on profession tied to str, agl, int, chr would be an infinite improvement to getting the palyer into the game. as well as randomising you fellow travellers as opposed to doing the same picking their skills. forces you to work with what you got rather than what you want.

3. maps cool. add some eye-candy though useless roads. add more forest density.

4. you can add a pic to a menu. i've been doing it for my next version of m3. as an example,from module_game_menus.py::

**<snip>**
  (
    "simple_encounter",0,
    "A band of {s1} approaches. You look to your {reg10} troops, and weigh battle against their {reg11}...",
    "pic_pirates",
    [
        (str_store_party_name, 1,"$g_encountered_party"), etc etc blah blah blah
**<snip>**

you get a .dds called whatever.dds dumped into module/textures, then add the texture and material to a module brf file that holds textures and materials, then import the flat brf from commonres/pictures, and rename/reskin. yep. it works. takes a little playing for proportion, but it works good. you can tag a pic to a menu - catherdral for church areas, city for city entry, etc; if you want, you can set up a conditional menu selection for each town. eye candy.

per request, here it is:
http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php?topic=166.0

and i got the jeansburg-leave town bug. seems to be relate to sister joining after improving her stats. if i leave alone, or don't improve more than twice, it didn't happen.

i would love to pick through your code. cheers. maw
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 01:33:06 PM by maw »

Offline Hellequin

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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 12:16:20 PM »
Maw - thanks for the detailed comments!

Personally, the menus do it for me much better than the 3d environments.  Frankly the average Darklands city feels bigger, to me, than (say) the Imperial City in Oblivion did.  More full of life.  So I don't anticipate changing this anytime soon.  If you want to prove me wrong, though, I'd be happy to see an example.

Character creation likewise, although I am working on including a "default self" for each of the NPCs, so you can non-customize their stats.  I may, per your suggestion, include a small random element in this.

I'm glad you like the map, although really it's received only a tiny amount of work so far.  Probably the next update to the map will be a huge one, honestly, one which expands things out to the right scale and puts all the cities on it.  Don't expect that one anytime soon, though.  But while I'd cheerfully accept a prettier interim map if someone decided they wanted one enough to do it themselves, since it's only an interim item it's not high on my list.  Incidentally, once we do add roads, they're gonna be real roads, you'll get a bonus to Pathfinder if you're on one and your encounters will be (a) more people and less animals, and (b) generally more benign, I've got that code already sketched out.

The Anya thing is still odd.  I can age her as far as I like on my machine (up to your age +11, which is the most the mod will let you), no problems.  Did you talk to the innkeeper at all, or have any subsequent conversations with her after the one to improve her stats?

And, lastly, you got menu pics to work?  Tested and everything!  Stop the presses, that's huge, thank you!  I'm sufficiently unfamiliar with the brf/dds/skinning process that I'll need to fiddle with that for a bit, but that's seriously awesome news.

- Hellequin

Offline Ursca

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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 12:19:39 PM »
Quote from: Maw
4. you can add a pic to a menu. i've been doing it for my next version of m3. as an example,from module_game_menus.py::

That works? Brilliant! Get that up in the knowledge base ASAP!
I think Merlkir maybe in great demand round here when that's common knowledge.
Hellequin; if you want any sketches for menu's and such, give us a PM. I wouldn't mind having a go at some. I'm going to give Warhammer mod the full treatment.   :green: