Author Topic: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)  (Read 35775 times)

Offline Anterias

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 10:44:07 am »
^Very well written, and a lot of good points. But I do not agree on Khand, Khand is rather pathetic to be called Rhun on stereoids, their cavalary is much weaker, and their infantrymen as well. Maybe in RCM it's different, I dunno :D.

Offline Annuinir Thanguridhren

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 10:50:35 am »
I find Khand to be easy to deal with as well even in rcm. But great guide it gave me some good ideas.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2012, 11:19:04 am »
@ Annuinir
Maybe its because you've met them with a very advanced force? In RCM their infantry is on par with Uruk-hai by stats and armament and I remember even Elves having hard-time against them when I did the testing. The cavalry sucks, but that's mostly because AI can't even do a massed charge properly.

@ Anterias
Well, I'm glad the guide applies to vanilla as well, at least partially.

Offline Khergit Kabob

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 01:32:01 pm »
What are the most significant practical differences between RCM and normal? What units are more or less effective in one vs the other?

Offline Annuinir Thanguridhren

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2012, 01:38:36 pm »
I've also never had a large scale engagement with them yet so that could color my opinion haha

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2012, 02:52:49 pm »
What are the most significant practical differences between RCM and normal? What units are more or less effective in one vs the other?

You can generally think of RCM as an attempt to depict combat realistically in M&B framework, all caveats applied. Vanilla doesn't attempt to do that and it is more "gamey". In practice this leads to:

1. RCM being more deadly. A hit on an unarmed character often means death, though armor can change things greatly.

2. RCM depicting arms and armor in a more realistic fashion, without regard to inter-faction balance. This makes some factions stronger then the others in tactical combat.

Heavier armored troops are boosted by RCM and lightly armored - nerfed, but that's a simplification, it's a bit more nuanced in the game.

In general, if you aim for a more challenging and deadly combat, or like realistic depiction in video games - RCM's your choice. If you like combat to be more "gamey" (or want to play Beornings normally:) ), use vanilla.

I've also never had a large scale engagement with them yet so that could color my opinion haha

Probably that's the reason. Do share your opinion after you get to that kind of engagement with them.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 02:55:31 pm by Rene Korda »

Offline Anterias

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 03:02:54 pm »
Well I don't use RCM mostly because of moral lol, using submods for mods just doesn't feel right xD, if you know what I mean by that, it's not how the mod creators wanted the game to be played. You can say that this applies to mods as well but not quite for me. And anyhow it makes my elf a legolas/aragorn terminator hybrid, aka makes the game too easy.

But you say it focuses on realism, yet horses are insanely fast, how's that realistic? The first time I tried RCM was on a level 40 elf knight who just charged trough everything dealing 25/30 damage along with 150/200 damage slashes. Kind of glorfindel mode from bfme2 lol.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 05:08:00 pm »
But you say it focuses on realism, yet horses are insanely fast, how's that realistic? The first time I tried RCM was on a level 40 elf knight who just charged trough everything dealing 25/30 damage along with 150/200 damage slashes. Kind of glorfindel mode from bfme2 lol.

Are you sure you've tried the recent version?

Thresholds for horse charge damage are actually higher in RCM. Some players even complained they couldn't couched lance because of that:)

Offline hayate666

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 06:23:46 pm »
Perhaps you arent playing with full damage to player and allies on? It's the only way to be unkillable I've found with RCM. Doing that will utterly mess up the balance.

Back to tactics:

Best tactic against Rhun I've found (with RCM) is luring them into Mirkwood. Trees are awesome like that. They will completely break up any charge they try to throw at you, making them stop in their tracks and become very vulnerable to archer fire.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 06:32:15 pm by hayate666 »

Offline Annuinir Thanguridhren

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 09:22:36 pm »
Oh yeah my grors guards rape the living daylights out of rhun in mirkwood Hahaha it's beautiful

Offline Khergit Kabob

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 10:25:00 pm »
Well thanks for the replies but I want more!

The only "real combat" I've ever been in has been the kind with pads and gloves, so I honestly have no idea what "real combat" is like. I'm approaching RCM as simply another way of playing a game, and am asking from the gamer's point-of-view what the game-differences will be.

You've answered that somewhat: poorly-armored troops are cannon fodder. Got it.

Is horse archery still a counter to Dunlanders and Isengard? Is cavalry still devastating against archer-heavy companies of Corsairs? Will a few top-tier units still wipe the floor against a large mob of yard trash? How different is an RCM game versus a normal game? How differently would I need to play my own character in order to succeed? (Like can I ride out solo to harass the enemy with horse archery before the two sides clash, or will I or my horse inevitably get one-shotted?)

Offline Anterias

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 11:54:51 pm »
To show that I'm a badass, I play on 100% difficulty 8)..

Can't play on 100% difficulty while having lower dmg for my self and allies you know :).

Offline Samuellucas1993

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2012, 12:43:37 am »
When editing the weapon damages where can i change thrust? swing/slash is easy to find but i can not work out how to change thrust damage, any help appreciated

Offline hayate666

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2012, 05:26:23 am »
Well thanks for the replies but I want more!
That can be arranged  ;)

The only "real combat" I've ever been in has been the kind with pads and gloves, so I honestly have no idea what "real combat" is like. I'm approaching RCM as simply another way of playing a game, and am asking from the gamer's point-of-view what the game-differences will be.

You've answered that somewhat: poorly-armored troops are cannon fodder. Got it.

And even cannon fodder has its effectiveness. You need something to empty the quivers of those nasty Elves before engaging them with your better troops.

Is horse archery still a counter to Dunlanders and Isengard?
Yes.

Is cavalry still devastating against archer-heavy companies of Corsairs?
Yes, as long as they are armoured.

Will a few top-tier units still wipe the floor against a large mob of yard trash?
Generally speaking, no. Getting swarmed will get you killed by a thousand little cuts. Fighting anything largely outnumbered is very difficult.

How different is an RCM game versus a normal game?
Combat is generally speaking more deadly. You will be able to take less hits and deal a lot more damage to opponents. Good use of terrain and tactics are very important. Armour and weapon choice matters a lot. Armor piercing weapons are reduced to what historically should have been armour piercing.

How differently would I need to play my own character in order to succeed? (Like can I ride out solo to harass the enemy with horse archery before the two sides clash, or will I or my horse inevitably get one-shotted?)
You should expect heroic solo charges to be a quick ticket to a grave. You can't expect to do horse archery by yourself against heavy archer armies or you will probably die. Unless you're riding a very heavily armored horse. I have used Rohan horse archers quite effectively against Dunlanders and Isengard, but when I send out too little they will all be slaughtered by archers and throwing weapons.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 05:28:05 am by hayate666 »

Offline MariusThePaladin

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Re: Tactics guides and discussion (RCM and vanilla)
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2012, 10:35:55 pm »
Are you still need an answer concerning RCM ?

You could just read about it on the RCM thread. It contain many interesting discussion.

But to put it simply, they do as following :

First, they made ordinary naked people got killed/disabled by a mere single knife stab or an arrow shot.  But rather immune to blunt weapon. (You said that you do pads and gloves, so you should know this well.)

Second, they made armours and weapons' stat to be according to their appearance and... tried to be lore friendly as best as they could (Simple chothing offer almost no protection, wooden spear and wooden club can't do anything against iron-clad soldier. A knife stab can't even tickle metal armour. Arrow randomly done damage to armoured soldier emulating that arrow hit the unarmored parts like eye of face. Only very few weapons could do pierce damage. The legendary/unique/lore/magical items are just got higher stats.)

Third,  think that heroic charges is more available than in vanilla if you are a heavy infantry that go gainst a group of tribal goblins, Dunlander, or some other naked guy who carry a piece of wood or knife. 30 Dwarves can kill 200 Dunlanders, you see...