Poll

Would like the proposed prices to be used in RCM?

Yes
6 (85.7%)
No
1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: March 12, 2012, 06:36:37 am

Author Topic: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads  (Read 740645 times)

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #675 on: June 02, 2012, 03:46:24 pm »
Well, I didn't have any problems with Rohan against orcs or Uruk-hai. And I was playing them in the previous version - I've nerfed Uruk-hai since then, so it should be even easier.

Can you do that test exactly in the way I described? No archers, no non-elven troops - just pit some elven infantry against the orcs. That way I'll know if RCM is functioning correctly on your system or not.

Offline Ji Indur

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #676 on: June 02, 2012, 04:28:51 pm »
I have the same feelling after various tests RK. Cavalry lose horses more often than Vanilla (particularly no protected horses). Even Black Numéroneans horsemasters lose their mount : I never see that in Vanilla. :o

For me, it's not a problem. Cavalry is too much powerfull in TLD, just like M&B. With RCM you must be more careful, more tactician. It's one thing i like in RCM. It's fine, it's not a problem. :)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 04:30:32 pm by Ji Indur »
Sorry for mi english. I'm a french player. Merci.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #677 on: June 02, 2012, 04:55:10 pm »
Oh, I know that. It's one of those things I like about RCM, actually. But that doesn't make cavalry forces weak, you just have to use them smarter.

I just want to make sure RCM is working properly on Jambat's system. Hopefully it does. Then, I guess, I'll have to write some kind of explanation of what RCM is and how to play it, so that people don't take its differences with vanilla for imbalances or something and don't form opinions on first impression, which can often be erroneous. I've tested Rohan extensively enough to know it to be one of the strongest factions in RCM for instance. So I presume there's either something wrong with Jambat's version or he hasn't got the hang of Rohan yet.

Offline Jambat

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #678 on: June 02, 2012, 05:51:03 pm »
Oh, I know that. It's one of those things I like about RCM, actually. But that doesn't make cavalry forces weak, you just have to use them smarter.

I just want to make sure RCM is working properly on Jambat's system. Hopefully it does. Then, I guess, I'll have to write some kind of explanation of what RCM is and how to play it, so that people don't take its differences with vanilla for imbalances or something and don't form opinions on first impression, which can often be erroneous. I've tested Rohan extensively enough to know it to be one of the strongest factions in RCM for instance. So I presume there's either something wrong with Jambat's version or he hasn't got the hang of Rohan yet.

Oh, I don't even need to cheat to do that. I have an Elven campaign going right now and they are working just fine, I am however using the alternate file provided with the download for them. I had Loth infantry of good to great quality and they were killers, but I turned them in to readjust my force for my new-found love of Elvish Knights.

I'm going to restart Rohan and make it a focus to try to go into it a bit tougher and better prepared than I did last time (which I said was a possibility for my arse-whooping; Was hard to keep a strong force going with how easily they dropped), and we'll see how it goes.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 05:57:38 pm by Jambat »

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #679 on: June 03, 2012, 02:34:17 am »
Well, that's good, it's working as intended then. The alternate file only nerfs their bows and arrows a little bit. It doesn't affect the infantry and the nerf isn't that big anyway.

The Elven cavalry is very good and versatile, I usually end up switching to it too as the troops level up.

As for the Rohirrim cavalry - barding (horse armor) is very important here. Only those troops that have it can be considered proper hard-hitting heavy cavalry. This is true of vanilla TLD too, BTW, though to a lesser extent. So yeah, trying to charge an Isengard phalanx with those Riders of Rohan is a really bad idea. Better to use your skirmishers against them (just don't charge them, keep them formed up and nearby and let them shoot from formation). But when you have a sizeable force of Elite Riders or somesuch, they'll usually be charging in front and attracting the enemy attention to themselves, making your non-barded troops (who'll be charging with them) more efficient and less prone to losses.

The general idea is to micromanage your cavalry until the time for a final charge to defeat the enemy comes. Pepper the main enemy formation with arrows, move away when they try to close in. Drive your formation through the ranks of their archers a couple of times - if the enemy infantry is far away, even charge those archers, then in 10-15 seconds form up again (so that your riders don't start charging the infantry one by one). It takes some getting used too, but it's a fun way to play for anybody who enjoys tactical challenge.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 09:42:21 am by Rene Korda »

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #680 on: June 07, 2012, 03:14:19 pm »
http://www.mediafire.com/file/2anht3h8d7x6zjy/RCM_2.13_for_TLD.7z - hopefully, the final version of RCM. Trolls nerfed significantly and don't seem to be OP anymore. In my tests, they looked well-balanced. Nothing else is changed, so if you don't use trolls in your games you don't need this update.

Offline Jambat

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #681 on: June 07, 2012, 04:54:47 pm »
It takes some getting used too, but it's a fun way to play for anybody who enjoys tactical challenge.

That's basically how you run a light/medium cav army in any of the mods - taking on the Snake Cults w/Anacondas in Pendor in the first month comes to mind. Trying to trade punches just loses you the game. I'd never try to zerg a heavy infantry formation that's stuck in head on, and I don't let cav run around willy-nilly to get picked off because the AI (M&B, no fault of the mod team) is pretty stupid.

I take it that if I remove this, the saves have to be tossed? I believe I read something about the troops file being all screwy after removing RCM.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #682 on: June 07, 2012, 06:02:56 pm »
M&B saves troop stats in the savegame files. If you swap RCM for native, you'll get native item stats, but the troop stats will be from RCM.

Offline hayate666

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #683 on: June 09, 2012, 03:38:40 am »
It still plays just fine. Had a go again today and no issues noted.  :)

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #684 on: June 09, 2012, 04:02:02 am »
Capital! Thanks for taking time to mention it.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #685 on: June 09, 2012, 04:35:14 am »
http://www.mediafire.com/file/185al6un422x1wq/party_templates.txt - this is an optional party composition modification catered to RCM. It's primary feature is that it adds Trolls and Olog Hai to Mordor, Dol Guldur, Moria and Gundabad lord parties. Expect to see enough of them and for the tactical balance to be altered (there certainly will be less bias towards good factions). The file also rebalances dwarven parties towards being somewhat more melee-oriented.

The modification is save-compatible.

Offline Jambat

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #686 on: June 09, 2012, 04:12:24 pm »
http://www.mediafire.com/file/185al6un422x1wq/party_templates.txt - this is an optional party composition modification catered to RCM. It's primary feature is that it adds Trolls and Olog Hai to Mordor, Dol Guldur, Moria and Gundabad lord parties. Expect to see enough of them and for the tactical balance to be altered (there certainly will be less bias towards good factions). The file also rebalances dwarven parties towards being somewhat more melee-oriented.

The modification is save-compatible.

That does sound really interesting, and sounds like it will make battles tougher. About how many can you expect to see in the lord parties? 1-2? More?

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #687 on: June 09, 2012, 06:02:44 pm »
2-3 for Moria lords, 5-6 for their marshal. 1-2 for other lords, around 2-4 for marshals. In larger battles with several lords you might see a dozen trolls participate, for example.

Offline Jambat

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #688 on: June 09, 2012, 06:18:54 pm »
2-3 for Moria lords, 5-6 for their marshal. 1-2 for other lords, around 2-4 for marshals. In larger battles with several lords you might see a dozen trolls participate, for example.

A dozen trolls, hahah. Oh lord, I have to try that. I ended up with a quest before that had 3 or 4 of the things and it was a nightmare, every single horse I had was like 'F THIS'. I have to try this, it sounds both glorious and horrific at the same time (In a good way).

Offline MrPixel

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #689 on: June 09, 2012, 06:34:53 pm »
2-3 for Moria lords, 5-6 for their marshal. 1-2 for other lords, around 2-4 for marshals. In larger battles with several lords you might see a dozen trolls participate, for example.

Oh my god.. that sounds so awesome. I am incredibly tempted to start a new game (my previous Mordor save decided it would no longer load..) but I'm in the middle of exams.