Poll

Would like the proposed prices to be used in RCM?

Yes
6 (85.7%)
No
1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: March 12, 2012, 06:36:37 am

Author Topic: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads  (Read 740654 times)

Offline hayate666

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #510 on: March 18, 2012, 05:53:47 am »
Nice! I'll try to get some testing asap. I'm a bit swamped at work at the moment, so I haven't got much time this week. I'll do what I can though.  :green:

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #511 on: March 18, 2012, 02:23:57 pm »
Hmm, I've noticed that the majority of Umbar troops lack shields in combat, yet have them in the troops file. This really nerfs the corsairs, what's causing it and how to fix it?

UPD. Ok, the issue's solved, the "Shield" flag was off on them. Also, sorted out the Thranduil Royal Spearmen -  now they're spearmen with shields, not guys with knives - and gave shields to Brego guards.

Here's an updated file, please use it, if you're planning to test corsairs: http://www.wupload.com/file/2676984962/troops.txt .

UPD.2. The Uruk-hai Berserker appears to be totally worthless. Whatever stats I give to it, it's still a downgrade, not an uprgade. So I'm changing it into a Pike Champion - basically, a regular Uruk-hai Champion, but armed with pike or halberd. The file above is updated with this new unit.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:52:53 pm by Rene Korda »

Offline hayate666

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #512 on: March 18, 2012, 05:13:33 pm »
It makes more sense to give berserkers some sort of reach weapon. Historically the people who fought as naked fanatics usually had rather big shields and swords/spears. And were mostly completely doped up on insanity, painkillers and/or hallucinogenic mushrooms to keep fighting longer.

Perhaps this is somewhat able to be simulated in the game by giving Uruk berserkers ridiculously high iron flesh stats? So they might be able to take multiple arrows that would kill regular unarmored Uruks.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 05:17:06 pm by hayate666 »

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #513 on: March 18, 2012, 05:26:24 pm »
It's already ridiculously high - they have about 80 hp, PS of a top-level elf, high athletics, highest profs among the orcs and they still suck, thus making a stub out of the pikemen line. It's better to have proper top-level pikemen/halberdiers IMO. I'd have left the berserkers as separate unit (for those masochists who'd go for training a top-level troop to see it die in its first fight), but my troop editor doesn't allow me to create new troops.

Look on the bright side - instead of a dubious unit (that obviously was a tribute to the movie, since Uruk-hai didn't have berserkers in the books) you get a proper pike/halberd line, both strong and providing interesting tactical opportunities (and outright cool).

Offline Grothag

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #514 on: March 19, 2012, 12:06:35 am »
OOps so that came  from Gortha mod, mear and  armored horses asked 7 riding....sorry.
On argoment someone can post last troops file , it seems rather stable now.

There are only 3 mounts with 7 req - Mordor Sinister horse, Mearh and Huge warg. Made them that way, as those are the elite of the mounts and very difficult to submit beasts(lore wise) and they're half an army on the battlefield(gameplay wise).

Quote
Hmm, I've noticed that the majority of Umbar troops lack shields in combat, yet have them in the troops file. This really nerfs the corsairs, what's causing it and how to fix it?

UPD. Ok, the issue's solved, the "Shield" flag was off on them. Also, sorted out the Thranduil Royal Spearmen -  now they're spearmen with shields, not guys with knives - and gave shields to Brego guards.

Here's an updated file, please use it, if you're planning to test corsairs: http://www.wupload.com/file/2676984962/troops.txt .

UPD.2. The Uruk-hai Berserker appears to be totally worthless. Whatever stats I give to it, it's still a downgrade, not an uprgade. So I'm changing it into a Pike Champion - basically, a regular Uruk-hai Champion, but armed with pike or halberd. The file above is updated with this new unit.

Yeah - there are lots of troops in the file with messed up equipment and missing or wronged flags. I've tweaked most of the troops equipment in my file and the fact is that the equipment is the biggest factor - give the best troop the crappiest weapon and armour and give a snaga the best equipment and the snaga will win everytime for sure.

The berserker bigger weakness is it's low armour stats. If we had the option(like in warband) to make them separate unit from other inf, so we can use them for flank/rear attacks, everything would be fine. In my file I gave them the best shock weapons available for isengard and they really can cut through everything, but they die easy indeed, as they should, since they lack heavy armour....There is an option to give them the best  isengard armour and they'll become 1 of the best troops for sure.

P.S. Latter today I'll upload my newest troop and items files. I'll wait till you finalize your troops.txt to test it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 12:30:10 am by Grothag »

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #515 on: March 19, 2012, 02:59:02 am »
I need some more feedback before that. Especially, concerning Rhun.

Offline GondorKnight

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #516 on: March 19, 2012, 04:52:34 am »
However giving the Berserkers armour sort of break the whole idea- what so different between them and elite line troops?
If armours have types then we may have fun.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #517 on: March 19, 2012, 04:58:49 am »
However giving the Berserkers armour sort of break the whole idea- what so different between them and elite line troops?
If armours have types then we may have fun.

I agree, that's why I changed them. I've tested them really extensively and they're unsalvageable, there's no way to make them useful without giving them heavy armor.

So let's stick to testing Rhun, Beornings, dwarves and elves, that's where feedback is needed.

EDIT:
BTW, guys, how about bundling RCM up with Warband animations mod? So that people don't have to manipulate those module.ini files manually.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:16:16 am by Rene Korda »

Offline Annuinir Thanguridhren

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #518 on: March 20, 2012, 07:37:48 pm »
That would be much appreciated haha

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #519 on: March 21, 2012, 05:07:40 am »
Ok, after some more testing I have to say that bumping up Rhun PS ruins the immersion and goes against the spirit of realistic modeling that is the whole point of RCM. I guess it's time for the nuclear solution - lower their naked-buttness by giving heavy armor to the third-tier troops (except mounted archers). I think I'll also re-think that armor's stats, as 30 for body is probably too low. I'll have to compare its visuals to Dale armors. The racial bonuses shall be +1 Riding/ +1 Horse Archery.

UPD. Here are the new files:

http://www.wupload.com/file/2677828757/troops.txt
http://www.wupload.com/file/2677828762/item_kinds1.txt

The armor has same body armor stats as the Gundabad one, as it seems to be the closest in visual terms. Dale armor is, on closer inspection, better. Still, with this re-balancing Rhun should become much stronger. Please, test it specifically both as your own faction and as your enemy.

EDIT
Ok, Rhun's fine now and the far northern campaign is playable for both sides, added shields and some helmets to Dale troops too. The elves and dwarves seem to be sufficiently nerfed, though I haven't tested them as my own troops yet. I'll test these two and the Beornings and I guess that'll be it. After finishing up the troops, I'll re-make the item prices and then put up the new RCM for download.

Please note that, since no one, apparently, is doing any testing apart from me, whatever balance comes out as a final version would be whatever I manage to make of it. Obviously, I cannot do extensive testing on my own and I have to rely on my previous experience in TLD and on a small amount of test combats. Besides that, any kind of balance  is the interpretation of lore and reality by its maker. So if you don't like the resulting balance, you'll have to either get your hands dirty and modify it yourself, or blame yourself for not participating in the testing.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:18:17 pm by Rene Korda »

Offline Annuinir Thanguridhren

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #520 on: March 22, 2012, 07:53:38 am »
If you haven't tested elves much yet I've been planning on doing that I've just been busy

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #521 on: March 22, 2012, 10:48:38 am »
Please do, any kind of feedback (even "everything's cool") would be very much appreciated.

I'll be testing Beornings and dwarves first, then.

EDIT
Concerning the Beornings. First, half their troops are compromised of Woodsmen, not Beornings (those related to Beorn, I presume). These should have regular human stats. For Beornings themselves, I think I'll give +1 PS and +2 IF. Giving more PS makes combat look a bit unreasonable, the same way it did with Rhun. So they'll probably be akin to the good side's Dunlanders, a weaker faction for those who want a challenging game. Still, they should be playable and I'll test them some more.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 11:54:55 am by Rene Korda »

Offline The Yogi

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #522 on: March 22, 2012, 11:55:08 am »
Could you please bundle the two files in one archive? Otherwise free download requires 45 minutes of waiting between the two.

Offline Rene Korda

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #523 on: March 22, 2012, 01:23:45 pm »

Offline hayate666

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Re: Combat Damage Model (RCM) - merged threads
« Reply #524 on: March 23, 2012, 06:32:23 am »
I've been following everything in the background so far. All changes look very well thought out and make sense. High tier bare chested troops are a huge problem for several factions and it's good to see you address it. PS for troops look good so far too. Good job!

I hope to get some playtime in this weekend, but real life keeps getting in the way.  :(