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Author Topic: TLD 3.23 Suggestions  (Read 581372 times)

Offline TheMageLord

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #195 on: November 09, 2011, 02:07:26 pm »
Quote from: GetAssista
Stats between factions or races need not be balanced, as gameplay differs depending on your choice (and will differ more in future patches, we have plans). Stats within one faction and race (like e.g. Gondor) need to be balanced yes, to not rule out completely inferior choices. Thanks for the reminder

it's only some troop stat change, even easier than menus. Starting char = tier1 troop wrt stats

Yea, I get that. I just meant they needed balance between the ones of the same race - like the two vastly different dwarf starts, the differences in the men starts, etc. And the random element.

Do the tier 1 troop stats have a random element, or is that within the menus itself? I notice a lot of the faction choices are being given skills randomly, which imho isn't ideal.

Like I started as an orc of isengard and got 3 points in athletics and 1 in power strike, nothing else. Starting again with the same start gave me those skills plus spotting and horse archery.

Offline Oyclo

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #196 on: November 09, 2011, 04:30:27 pm »
Quote from: GetAssista
Stats between factions or races need not be balanced, as gameplay differs depending on your choice (and will differ more in future patches, we have plans). Stats within one faction and race (like e.g. Gondor) need to be balanced yes, to not rule out completely inferior choices. Thanks for the reminder

it's only some troop stat change, even easier than menus. Starting char = tier1 troop wrt stats

Yea, I get that. I just meant they needed balance between the ones of the same race - like the two vastly different dwarf starts, the differences in the men starts, etc. And the random element.

Do the tier 1 troop stats have a random element, or is that within the menus itself? I notice a lot of the faction choices are being given skills randomly, which imho isn't ideal.

Like I started as an orc of isengard and got 3 points in athletics and 1 in power strike, nothing else. Starting again with the same start gave me those skills plus spotting and horse archery.

Char export, modify, char import.

I already cheat path finding on the evil side being the vast imbalance in troop strength, on good I don't touch anything.  You can customize the skills to what you think they should be starting.

Offline Oyclo

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #197 on: November 09, 2011, 08:14:48 pm »
I'm wondering if the game would have more of a Tolkien feel if the Tolkien "racism" was there.

I can't imagine dwarves recruiting elves (that was a big part of the fellowship, an elf dwarf friendship).

Likewise I can't imagine orcs and men working in the same unit side by side.   

They would fight a common enemy but not intermingle.   

Offline Darth Trog

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #198 on: November 09, 2011, 08:28:09 pm »
For those who have kids and know  how much of a pain "are we there yet" can be, I would like to point out just as kids can be cute the first time they say this, after the 50th time you want to shut them up.

This is how I feel about the mutiny option for the evil side, cute the first time,  a pain after this. An option to turn this "problem" off would be very nice.

Now for the real question.

Since the option to burn down or capture towns, outposts are not in this mod,  there is not a good way to help an ally when needed.

I have am playing as Gondor and trying to help my Rohan allies, I defeat armies, I recruit troops and supply them to their commanders/lords,  scouts, patrols, towns,  yet no matter what I do they still are weak.   500 + troops in towns,  100 man patrols,  And they are Still being seiged to death and loosing battles to Isengard.   

I would just like something clear, not random, that I do and can see the result.  Prior it would be capture a town,  and man it.   Here, the amounts of troops could be tied to the supply trains,  or metal remains brought in to be converted to troops.

Not sure how this works in the game engine but some sort of economy related to levels of enemy troops since we do not have a direct control over what/if sieges takes place.  The strength relationships between two powers is a great concept, what is not so great is how as a player to affect this, both to lower the other side and to raise your friends.  Since your time can't really do both,  you should be able to see clearly what the result of your actions really produces in terms of either troops that are active around a town,  or lords that do actions.

The other thing is lords who are resting in a town, the dialog to give troops should be added,  since they like to sit and sulk with their personal guard after they loose a battle.  there they sit for a month with 10 guys and no way to get them motivated to do anything. 

Offline Conners

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #199 on: November 09, 2011, 08:46:00 pm »
I'm wondering if the game would have more of a Tolkien feel if the Tolkien "racism" was there.

I can't imagine dwarves recruiting elves (that was a big part of the fellowship, an elf dwarf friendship).

Likewise I can't imagine orcs and men working in the same unit side by side.   

They would fight a common enemy but not intermingle.
I'd disagree. While there could be a morale penalty to simulate a dislike of intermingling, it should be doable. Soldiers can't always be so picky, after all.

Offline Northcott

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #200 on: November 09, 2011, 09:45:08 pm »
Both nitpicky and anti-gameplay. The player character needs to be handicapped, as it's the most powerful troop in the game. Imagine coming up into the game as a noble knight with a full set of equipment - the whole "upgrade equipment" subgame is ruined. The lower you start, the more fun you get slowly piecing your gear together.
Right about the shield skill though, that's just fluff, and we'll be better off starting with 0 there.

I have no idea how you drew that point out of what I said, but as three people in a row seemed to get the same impression, apparently I need to clarify. I did not say, or even intend to hint at the notion, that the PCs should be starting out with incredible equipment or massive skill. I'm reasonably sure I even came out and said as much directly, though apparently I mangled it.

I suggested thematic equipment for the characters, fitting their character type and the skill dump they're getting in the beginning.  How in the name of God is that "anti-gameplay"? If you're assigning a character stats as an archer, and then price arrows and bows at a total of 3,000 resource points, leaving the character with no melee skill, no power strike, and a rusty short sword as their only weapon... how is it anti-gameplay to suggest that a character with archer skills be kitted out as an archer? Or that if they're intended to be melee troops, that they have melee-oriented stats instead?

Can you use cheats or import/export to get past this stuff? Of course. But that's not the point of this thread. The mod's awesome, beautiful, and very detailed. The little details count, and help flesh things out. 15 skill in all weapons has the feeling of an abysmal noob, rather than a recruit with potential. It just requires patience to raise, granted, but if it's not a big deal at all then why not allow characters to at least be moderately competent (skills ranging from the 20's to 70's, like Native)?

Other little touches:
1) Dunedain start out with heavy foot armour, but light or no armour everywhere else. Leather boots probably fit the 'Ranger' vibe better.

2) A thought on the combat capability of elves: I've noticed in tinkering with companions that freakishly high dex and weapon skills can make them Hell on wheels. Elves don't need huge power strike, and only require a mid-level power draw to make their bows effective. But with crazy-high dex, light armour, and fast weapons & shields, they'd be Hell on wheels. A contrast to orcs with great physical power and heavier gear.  It would seem to compliment the RCM model that Ron's proposing.

3) Riders of Rohan: more Riding skill. They're supposed to be born to the saddle, but they come across as only passable riders, and tend to get out-paced on the map despite having chiefly mounted units. Their arms and armour aren't all that impressive, and that's fine... but they should at least have kickass skill on horseback.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:21:26 pm by Northcott »

Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #201 on: November 09, 2011, 10:16:46 pm »
I'm wondering if the game would have more of a Tolkien feel if the Tolkien "racism" was there.

I can't imagine dwarves recruiting elves (that was a big part of the fellowship, an elf dwarf friendship).

Likewise I can't imagine orcs and men working in the same unit side by side.   

They would fight a common enemy but not intermingle.

I think the 'racism' is already there for AI parties. I tend to view player's party as a sort of experimental unit of mixed racial heritage.

Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #202 on: November 10, 2011, 12:03:07 am »
I've noticed that a wave of 50 Tribal Orcs or Mountain Goblins will always reach my line of elven archers in at least some number, while 50 orcs/goblins or Mordor/Isengard/Dol Guldur/Gundabad/Moria will get wiped out before getting even within throwing range. This is because tribals don't use formations so they charge the enemy with maximum speed at very loose formation, making it difficult to hit them. Orcs and goblins of evil factions move slowly in ranks formation making them an easy target for even the worst archers (if they miss one they will almost certainly hit another one). It might seem like their shields protect them but they are so weak they can stand 3 arrow hits at most. My suggestion is to make AI charge the enemy if the enemy has strong archers rather than using ranks formation by default in all cases.

Offline MrGrendel

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #203 on: November 10, 2011, 02:23:21 am »
The option to trade ("rework") metal scraps of one grade into another grade would be handy.

Offline Davos

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #204 on: November 10, 2011, 03:52:46 am »
I've just raised my first Swan Knight as to compare it with a Knight of the Citadel, and to my surprise they had the same stats !

I thought Swan Knights were the best Gondor could have... Maybe I'm mistaking, not being a "Master of the Tolkien Lore", but anyway even if those 2 knight orders are supposed to have overall the same strengh, maybe there should be "some" differences in stats, like one rides better, one strikes harder, etc... Don't you think ?

Offline Banok

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #205 on: November 10, 2011, 03:57:59 am »
please remove the random char starting stats, and no character export dont work. 0 in all skills and 3 in attributes and let us choose would be better ;)

character export/import obviously works, i use it all the time.

how about a tribal goblin cave, location where tribal goblins can be found and fought, at least pre-war. so new players can fight some easy stuff and train troops. sometimes you never get any goblin quests.

imo turn off message quests to allied factions, or at least between gondor and rohan its way to far because of mountains.

maybe make trolls in troll quest like tribal orc quest where only you can engage them.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:02:44 am by Merlkir »

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #206 on: November 10, 2011, 04:11:01 am »
I'm wondering if the game would have more of a Tolkien feel if the Tolkien "racism" was there.
I can't imagine dwarves recruiting elves (that was a big part of the fellowship, an elf dwarf friendship).
Likewise I can't imagine orcs and men working in the same unit side by side.   
They would fight a common enemy but not intermingle.

I think the 'racism' is already there for AI parties. I tend to view player's party as a sort of experimental unit of mixed racial heritage.
Yes, that's a no-starter, with nothing to gain except some nerd points with the lore extremist faction. And lose a whole lot more with everybody else. This is obvious, right?
You can always imagine that your party is a military version of the Fellowship, good or evil. It's unique and you are special. That explains away anything.
The Last Days 3.0 - the ultimate Mount and Blade mod: http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/board,20.0.html

Offline Conners

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #207 on: November 10, 2011, 04:19:25 am »
Suggestion: For the evil faction, you should have it that once you win totally, you have the option of challenging your faction leader to a duel. If you win, then in the exposition (if there is any) at the end, it changes a little to mention how you became Sultan of the Haradrim or some-such.

A nice little touch, that would make it slightly more awesome.

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #208 on: November 10, 2011, 04:52:54 am »
Suggestion: For the evil faction, you should have it that once you win totally, you have the option of challenging your faction leader to a duel. If you win, then in the exposition (if there is any) at the end, it changes a little to mention how you became Sultan of the Haradrim or some-such.

A nice little touch, that would make it slightly more awesome.
The lone wanderer ventured forth from Vault the Haradrim hinterlands, and helped in making the world a place safe for orcs.
It was not until the end of this long road that the Lone Wanderer was faced with that greatest of virtues - sacrifice, when he sacrificed his Chieftain to his desert Gods. Unfortunately, he was immediately smitten to dust by the now almighty Sauron, who now enforced conservative values among his subjects, to preserve order and stability in his new world, where orcs and humans can live together in harmony.
The Last Days 3.0 - the ultimate Mount and Blade mod: http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/board,20.0.html

Offline Conners

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #209 on: November 10, 2011, 05:11:00 am »
The lone wanderer ventured forth from Vault the Haradrim hinterlands, and helped in making the world a place safe for orcs.
It was not until the end of this long road that the Lone Wanderer was faced with that greatest of virtues - sacrifice, when he sacrificed his Chieftain to his desert Gods. Unfortunately, he was immediately smitten to dust by the now almighty Sauron, who now enforced conservative values among his subjects, to preserve order and stability in his new world, where orcs and humans can live together in harmony.
Afraid I never saw the Fallout2 endings, so I can't understand the joke. Not sure if you mean this sardonically, or just out of humour.