Author Topic: TLD 3.23 Suggestions  (Read 486784 times)

Offline Surrealbeliefs

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #165 on: November 08, 2011, 04:01:21 PM »
I think everyones view of elf superiority has been colored by the movies, even if we don't want to admit it.  Elves fought very little in the books directly.  About the only real fight between elves and orcs was when the orcs from moria chased the fellowship, and even that was basically they were sniped from the trees, not hand to hand combat.

I rather dislike the movies, though they were absolutely gorgeous eye-candy, and I don't think I've ever finished watching them. My impression of the danger elves presents came from the Silmarillion -- though I remember (perhaps incorrectly) that in the Silmarillion the orcs were scary and dangerous as Hell.

Then there's Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth, where he even managed to wound Morgoth. Of course we only have a couple of First Age elves still living in Middle Earth (Galadriel, Glorinfindel), but the Elves are still a potent force. Glorinfindel was able to kill a Balrog (at the cost of his life), but of course we can't compare Elf lords from a different age to the run of the mill Elf. I think it's fair to say that they were lethal fighters, I mean, they're immortal for one. You tend to pick up some skills over time.

They fought very little in the Third Age, but in the First and Second Age they were still pretty active. It just had already drastically been reduced by the end of the First Age. Of course that's if you count The Silmarillion.

I agree with just reducing their numbers, increasing their upkeep and keeping them as lethal fighters. Of course I'm not sure how that would interact with the AI's battles.

Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #166 on: November 08, 2011, 04:16:11 PM »
- resources should be side specific (NO, they should not). A common currency for goodies resp. baddies. Otherwise you may get stuck somewhere far from home because you have local troops which you won`t be able to pay for at home. That's your problem of not planning your army correctly
Meaning of course you`ll earn less resources/achievement for balances sake.

I agree with the devs here, but I think the quests should try to keep the player in his own theatre of war. Factions from one theatre should not send the player on one-way quests like "deliver a message" and "escort a caravan" to another theatre because players tend to follow the quests and then there is a good chance of sticking to another theatre of war if it is much more active then yours.

Offline thecalaquendi

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #167 on: November 08, 2011, 04:21:44 PM »
Not really of the utmost importance or anything, but the "intro movie" is of very low (graphical) quality and looks terrible on larger screens (1920 x 1080 for instance).  The narrator's voice is pretty bad as well, to be honest.

Thank you very much for the heartfelt feedback. We'll be sure to fire our voiceover guy.

We don't even want to think of all that money we foolishly spent on voice acting... Please apply for a refund if you are unhappy about anything mod-related, or even if you have a bad hair day. :)

My apologies, I was under the impression this thread was purposed for feedback and suggestions.  I will make sure to limit my next comments to the usual "OMG! THIS MOD IS ***ING AWESOME! PS THE TEXTURES ARE SOOOO COOOOL I CANT HELP BUT TO CUM ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD!!"

That is, if you so insist.

The intro is something we've done a while ago and we know the video quality isn't great. If you think it's a good idea to have a download file 50-150 MB larger, sure, we can throw in an HD version. Also, honesty is nice, but can also be hurtful. The "pretty bad narrator" frequents these forums and reads these comments. But hey, why should he feel bad, right? He's bad.

We want feedback yes, but there's no need to be rude.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 04:32:08 PM by Merlkir »

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #168 on: November 08, 2011, 05:18:56 PM »
- resources should be side specific (NO, they should not). A common currency for goodies resp. baddies. Otherwise you may get stuck somewhere far from home because you have local troops which you won`t be able to pay for at home. That's your problem of not planning your army correctly
Meaning of course you`ll earn less resources/achievement for balances sake.

I agree with the devs here, but I think the quests should try to keep the player in his own theatre of war. Factions from one theatre should not send the player on one-way quests like "deliver a message" and "escort a caravan" to another theatre because players tend to follow the quests and then there is a good chance of sticking to another theatre of war if it is much more active then yours.
Note that all quests are limited by range, so you never go too far - the map is huge and we didn't want the apparently random and all over the map quest target choices as in Native. Keeping them in the same theater would have been too limiting for theaters with small number of friendly locations.

@thecalaquendi: criticism is ok, but your tone was obviously meant to hurt, and that's not nice. Sometimes some non-English speakers use a rougher, unfriendlier version of English and are not aware of it, but there are plenty of nice posters to learn from.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 05:22:36 PM by MadVader »
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Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #169 on: November 08, 2011, 05:57:44 PM »
- resources should be side specific (NO, they should not). A common currency for goodies resp. baddies. Otherwise you may get stuck somewhere far from home because you have local troops which you won`t be able to pay for at home. That's your problem of not planning your army correctly
Meaning of course you`ll earn less resources/achievement for balances sake.

I agree with the devs here, but I think the quests should try to keep the player in his own theatre of war. Factions from one theatre should not send the player on one-way quests like "deliver a message" and "escort a caravan" to another theatre because players tend to follow the quests and then there is a good chance of sticking to another theatre of war if it is much more active then yours.
Note that all quests are limited by range, so you never go too far - the map is huge and we didn't want the apparently random and all over the map quest target choices as in Native. Keeping them in the same theater would have been too limiting for theaters with small number of friendly locations.

I'm not talking about the range of the quests purely in the sense of units of measurement. My suggestion is to make a one-way quest between the theatres impossible. In my main game with version 3.0, I played a Rivendell Elf, and I got a one-way quest from Lothlorien to Rohan. Once I completed it, I started engaging Isengard parties and aiding Rohan in defence of their settlements. After some time, my elven troops were lost and mostly replaced by Rohan troops. Frequency of large battles also allowed me to raise my rank with Rohan to Great Hope and increased the number of troops I could lead. Finally, I had upkeep of around 6000 Rohan RP. As soon as I would try to go somewhere else, the paytime would come and I had to go back to Rohan to earn their RP so I could pay my Rohirrim.

I'm aware the player can make the hard choice and change his region of activity at the cost of some experienced troops, but it's no fun and many players who start in the north and go with the flow of quests have a good chance of ending up in Rohan or Gondor.

Offline Xatham

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #170 on: November 08, 2011, 06:32:07 PM »
If you give half of your troops away before leaving, they will give you lots and lots of RP.

Personally I mix troops from more than one nation so that I don't have a problem. :)

nacrox

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #171 on: November 08, 2011, 06:46:30 PM »
How about adding an option to the lords/marshalls to make them siege a city using some formula with influence+resources+persuasion+faction.target.strenght elements?

It would be an option added to the menu where you can assign tasks to the lords, and it could use a lot of influence and minimum rank to keep it balanced.

It could even add spice to the strategic level gameplay by adding the factor of collecting influence points for two or three sieges in a row, for a larger campaign :p
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 06:52:28 PM by nacrox »

Offline Oldtimer

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2011, 07:19:12 PM »
- resources should be side specific (NO, they should not). A common currency for goodies resp. baddies. Otherwise you may get stuck somewhere far from home because you have local troops which you won`t be able to pay for at home. That's your problem of not planning your army correctly
Meaning of course you`ll earn less resources/achievement for balances sake.

I agree with the devs here, but I think the quests should try to keep the player in his own theatre of war. Factions from one theatre should not send the player on one-way quests like "deliver a message" and "escort a caravan" to another theatre because players tend to follow the quests and then there is a good chance of sticking to another theatre of war if it is much more active then yours.
Note that all quests are limited by range, so you never go too far - the map is huge and we didn't want the apparently random and all over the map quest target choices as in Native. Keeping them in the same theater would have been too limiting for theaters with small number of friendly locations.

I'm not talking about the range of the quests purely in the sense of units of measurement. My suggestion is to make a one-way quest between the theatres impossible. In my main game with version 3.0, I played a Rivendell Elf, and I got a one-way quest from Lothlorien to Rohan. Once I completed it, I started engaging Isengard parties and aiding Rohan in defence of their settlements. After some time, my elven troops were lost and mostly replaced by Rohan troops. Frequency of large battles also allowed me to raise my rank with Rohan to Great Hope and increased the number of troops I could lead. Finally, I had upkeep of around 6000 Rohan RP. As soon as I would try to go somewhere else, the paytime would come and I had to go back to Rohan to earn their RP so I could pay my Rohirrim.

I'm aware the player can make the hard choice and change his region of activity at the cost of some experienced troops, but it's no fun and many players who start in the north and go with the flow of quests have a good chance of ending up in Rohan or Gondor.

Hi again,

the thing with one-way quests is that you can be sent from Rivendell to Rohan where you get a quest to Gondor AFAIU and so on, never to return home by quest as per above. So it`s not always bad army composition planning by player.
I`m a role-player so I try fulfilling tasks and make a difference but preferably close to home.
Of course I could give away "wrong" troops and with current levelling speed of NPC:s get a good unit at home pretty fast. But I grow attached to my men... Role-player, you know...

Rgds, Oldtimer

Offline Conners

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2011, 08:40:20 PM »
The voice-over is pretty good. Which means it isn't perfect... but it'd be hard to get perfect without millions of dollars.



With the side-specific resource thing... actually, you could do that somewhat, quite reasonably. If famous British commandos wandered into an American camp during WW2, you can bet the Americans would've helped them out.

Now, while the other factions of the evil side aren't as nice... the fact is, they are trying to win a war here. If they have a choice of giving their son a sword to go out and die, or giving the sword to some orc who can fight and die instead... the orc is the better option.
There's also the point that you don't want to offend your allies. And that means if a General of an ally comes and would like some assistance, you tend to give them assistance.


Thus it could be as simple as this: You can use your points from other factions, to buy things and so forth. However, items are twice as expensive. This way, you can be helped out by your allies... but it's only help. Not being supplied.

Offline TheMageLord

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2011, 09:59:24 PM »
I think Dol Guldur might need to be tweaked (assuming it wasn't already tweaked in 3.01, this happened in my 3.00 game that I was attempting to finish). Let me describe a scenario:

I was a dwarf, and after having destroyed both Rhun and Gundabad after extensive fighting decided to move on to Dol Guldur. All the local factions were very strong, but weren't really fighting Dol Guldur much. At this point Dol Guldur had 3000 strength and only the capital left standing (the camp had been wiped by Mirkwood way before). At one point it had been down to 2400, but I was busy with Gundabad and they had rallied. They had 3 lords and were spawning a few scout parties. I camped outside their place with a group of 140 elite Longbeard Axedwarves and just massacred group after group after group. Their leader just kept coming every few days with 240 troops, mixed with the other guys every so often.

After three months spent camping outside wiping out everything that would come outside, I had killed probably 8000 orcs. I had wiped out their main group probably 25 times (he kept coming out more than his underlings) and his two underlings 10 or so times each. All that and Dol Guldur was still at 1200 strength. The problem was, each time I killed their hosts they only lost 80 strength. Each day it regened them 20 strength. And it often took several days between them coming out. After another few weeks of it I finally got them to dip below 1000 and then Mirkwood came along and sieged them and finished them off (siege was unfinished I assume? it's currently a room stuffed with orcs with a door and no way for the orcs to shoot outside from inside, so basically a long drawn out battle between 5 elves and 5 orcs in the doorway slowly hacking at eachother with 300 on both sides right behind them just kinda hanging out yelling).

I think the main issue is their lack of outposts, so they just don't get many parties out there to be defeated and thus don't lose much. They always lose their north outpost early to Mirkwood, and then they just kinda stop fighting and regen. Might be good to add another Dol Guldur camp or two.

Might not just be Dol Guldur though. Moria is sitting at 2400 strength and is just kinda sitting back with nobody attacking it and none of the lords coming out to fight.


A suggestion: Perhaps factions could launch expeditions to reclaim razed towns/camps? It could reactivate the camp with 0 defenders (which I assume would trigger the enemy lords to come siege it again) and start spawning parties there and send the friendly lords there to patrol the area and defend it. If it isn't destroyed after a month or so it could repopulate and be functional again. This way you wouldn't have the current situation where once a faction loses all its outposts before it's beneath the 1000 strength cutoff it won't just sit back and recuperate, it will attempt to reclaim its land and both sides would still be actively fighting and going on campaign. This is in the plans, yes

It may already be, but if it isn't the faction strength regen could be based on the number of towns it currently has. That way razing the enemy camps is more meaningful, since it cuts their ability to rally. The capital might be cut back to 0 regen just so they will eventually wear down below 1000 where they can be finally sieged if they're so overwhelmed that they can't retake any of their camps.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 12:10:46 AM by GetAssista »

Meevar the Mighty

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #175 on: November 09, 2011, 01:19:01 AM »

I don't know if you read the Silmarillion, but the strengths and weaknesses Middle Earth's races are detailed in that book, as are most relevant things about Tolkien's world aside from LoTR's plot. I personally felt that Peter Jackson's films overstated the strengths of any single orc. Middle Earth seemed doomed because orcs were numerous and elves and dwarves were rapidly declining in population. This left men, of which most were bad and the rest were fickle. The average orc is not equivelant to the average elf, just as the average elf is not equivelant to the average troll or balrog. Elves have killed trolls and balrogs, but only in special cases or in armies.

On voice acting; it's more gruelling than some people think and I doubt the esteemed volunteer will be volunteering to re-do anything in a hurry. I cringe a little when my Noldor elite or knights of Dol Amroth shout something with a voice from Bree, but it's very hard to please everybody.

On the companion from Edoras; I think her backstory is perfectly consistent with LoTR and generally well thought out. I would have her eyes less close together so I didn't mistake her for an orc, but it's a companion well worth earning anyway. I don't think Tolkien intended for Eowyn to be a special case, as he fought in WWI and described Eowyn as a representative if the countless women who helped their country in war.

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #176 on: November 09, 2011, 01:36:14 AM »
On the companion from Edoras; I think her backstory is perfectly consistent with LoTR and generally well thought out. I would have her eyes less close together so I didn't mistake her for an orc, but it's a companion well worth earning anyway. I don't think Tolkien intended for Eowyn to be a special case, as he fought in WWI and described Eowyn as a representative if the countless women who helped their country in war.
My favorite NPC too, especially the little speech she gives when passing by an old Rohan battlefield.
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #177 on: November 09, 2011, 04:09:13 AM »
Mentioned elsewhere, but I'll post it here too:

While working on the weapon stats, I found the bug with the Lembas bread.  Not tested yet, but it should be fixed now (as soon as the new stuff gets finished and distributed).  Since there were a number of questions, comments, and reports of the bug ... thought everyone would like to know.

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #178 on: November 09, 2011, 05:08:38 AM »
Mentioned elsewhere, but I'll post it here too:

While working on the weapon stats, I found the bug with the Lembas bread.  Not tested yet, but it should be fixed now (as soon as the new stuff gets finished and distributed).  Since there were a number of questions, comments, and reports of the bug ... thought everyone would like to know.

You mean itp_consumable? No need to be secretive about it, and we need to fix it regardless of RCM.
And by fixing, I mean probably moving it out of food range, so it doesn't get consumed at all. Although I recall a team decision to make it consumable for some reason.
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Offline Conners

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2011, 05:30:03 AM »
It makes sense to make food consumable, doesn't it O.o...? It does mean you will need to get some more every so often. Point will be to make it a worth while food item, that boosts morale and lasts some time.