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Author Topic: TLD 3.23 Suggestions  (Read 580800 times)

Offline Asterix

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 03:52:32 am »
I agree with the suggestion for increased civillians and with the honourable colleagues point about the great work :)

(for all the warnings this is really not very bugged of a release)


Is there any way to implement ambushes? (where the ambushing party gets to set up around the victims) ... this is something I always felt missing from the game...
Currently you can be ambushed in certain regions, if you are a bad guy, in a global sense, meaning you wont see them coming on global map. Battlemap ambush mechanics is tricky, cause it's hard to script AI to not see enemies who are hiding. We'll see what we can add there, ambushes were discussed quite a bit on dev forum
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 03:58:09 am by GetAssista »

Offline Asterix

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 04:29:16 am »
I agree with the suggestion for increased civillians and with the honourable colleagues point about the great work :)

(for all the warnings this is really not very bugged of a release)


Is there any way to implement ambushes? (where the ambushing party gets to set up around the victims) ... this is something I always felt missing from the game...
Currently you can be ambushed in certain regions, if you are a bad guy, in a global sense, meaning you wont see them coming on global map. Battlemap ambush mechanics is tricky, cause it's hard to script AI to not see enemies who are hiding. We'll see what we can add there, ambushes were discussed quite a bit on dev forum

Excellent thanks for lightning quick reply!

After testing Mordor, Woodland Elves and Gondor here are my suggestions:

1) My elf is using a dwarven bow because Elven bows available were much weaker :)
They are not. Learn MB bow mechanics better and pay attention to PD and damage type
2) All elves should come with a high powerdraw and pathfinding ability and lower strength... currently my farming of strength for elves to get better powerdraw results in unrealistic character development.
would unbalance starting char. All starting chars are intentionally weaklings
3) In 2.4 there were other biggies besides the trolls... have they been taken out? no, there are some, but they are rare
4) I will post this in bugs... but after Gandalf visits me after I refused a call up from the elven high lord I go and see him and no dialogue is initated
G phrasing should change a bit. G only reminded you about your obligations for your faction, after you ignored them
5) The game balance is excellent but I would still increase the Isengard, Gundabad and Mordor numbers of patrols as it will add to the feel of the war of the ring :)
balance will be changed more than once in the future

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 04:34:19 am by GetAssista »

Offline King_of_Dale

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 05:45:23 am »
The mod is EPIC! All looks very good (even the evil orcs;) ); the settlements are fantastic.

But the worldmap-texture doesn't look very good (compared with the high quality of the models / textures).
World map texture is a balance between details and no visible tiling (which can become very visible if more complex textures are used)

Is there a way to be a regular soldier, serving in the army of the king / prince? Like in the mod Freelancer for Warband.
No way for now and no plans in near future. Would require a thorough rewrite of strategic AI, so that you not die of boredom camping in a city for X months
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:09:07 am by GetAssista »

Offline Multiheaded

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 06:00:02 am »
First of all, thank you for the truly amazing mod. 2.4 was already great and this time you've managed to top your previous efforts. The graphics in particular are undoubtedly the best view of Middle-Earth ever seen in a game, period. Games like LOTRO or Return of The King have nothing on your work!
However, like most people who have posted in your threads, I am extremely unhappy with the equipment balance. Can't wait for the RCM addon, to be honest. I understand you guys had to rush this open beta, but... what were you even THINKING? to release the mod I'm very curious if anyone on the team even LOOKED no, they were generated by 5-minute rnd at those stats while you were making them up. Just compare, e.g. the Mirkwood light scale (52 body/13 legs) with the heaviest armor of other factions. This is far from the only example (why the hell I can't buy a superior sword for 10000 resources in the Rivendell camp; if anyone would bring one to war, it's certainly the Rivendell elves or the Dunedain!). Not to come across as offensive, but it's just a MAJOR blow to the combat gameplay and atmosphere.
General answer: we had 2 options - do a lot of LotR related stuff and release it in 2 years more, or complete all the necessary stuff and release it earlier. We chose the second one.
What were you even THINKING(c) when we asked for help on TW some time ago? Or, you don't know how to mod, and can't understand how much time it takes. I see...

Okay, okay, but couldn't you have recruited a few volunteers for this particular job *before* a public release? Just post an advert on the forum, pick a guy whose response you like and send him the items file for editing...

Oh, and here's a pretty interesting suggestion on more non-combat activities. Ancient lore and secret knowledge are a key theme LoTR and Tolkien's other works. Therefore, please consider changing the unused 'Engineering' skill to 'Loremaster'. What benefits it gives is entirely up to you! Obvious ideas are:
1) gameplay-related hints given on specific situations (e.g. "Throughout many sieges, Hornburg's inner keep and the underground caverns were held by tenacious warriors even when the attackers overran the outer wall", or "While a horde of lesser orcs can easily be scattered by a mounted charge, Saruman bred and trained his Uruk-Hai with countering the Rohirrim riders in mind") talk to city walkers, you might be surprised
2) secret passages and areas opened, like the hidden doorway in the Lonely Mountain, a shortcut through Moria, a forgotten road through Mirkwood or the Paths of the Dead (for a Dunedain character with high charisma, as the Oathbreakers wouldn't let anyone else through) talk to city walkers, you might be surprised. And no, no paths of the dead in the forseeable future - you are no Aragorn, just yet another rank-and-file faction captain
Yeah, yeah, I'm just trying to suggest some effects for that new skill specifically.
3) a few "Ancient texts" to obtain/loot during gameplay, using the book mechanic; when studied with a high Loremaster skill, they could either give a permanent stat bonus like the vanilla books or point you to an area where you might find a long-lost unique item (e.g. a lesser Ring of Power in Osgiliath, weapons from an ancient battlefield in Dagorlad or an overlooked part of Smaug's hoard in Erebor)
good idea! Write us the texts please
They needn't have any readable texts; what I had in mind was just a few book-type items with appropriate names, e.g. "The Siege of Minas Ithil" (unlocks a secret passage in Minas Morgul, which can then be used in a mission to save allies from there or steal an artifact), or "The Last Leaf to Fall" (the story of a legendary Elven warrior, giving the PC +1 to weapon master, ironflesh and athletics on reading). Is it difficult to make stuff like this using the vanilla "book" items (sold randomly in taverns) as a base? I might make up a list of possible names and  effects if you give your approval.
4) learning either obscure parts of Elven languages, or the Black Speech; this would let you affect both allies and enemies with a script, like getting improved damage against the servants of the Enemy with a prayer to Elbereth, or driving your orcs onward with curses in Sauron's tongue. I'd say it would fit Tolkien's vision well; this isn't magic, just deeper understanding of the world, but it can influence people for good or evil. Of course, this might be difficult/impractical to code, but I'm interested in your opinion on whether this can be done in any form at all.
great idea. Now please go and code it, we would be grateful. We are busy with patching things so far
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:18:04 am by Multiheaded »

Ildanach

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 07:13:42 am »
I know you are almost at your item limit, but Celeborn does deserve a more unique set of armour, all faction leaders seem to have it apart from him. Currently he looks like his other generals even though he co-rules Lorien, Glorfindel is more fancy than him. Not an important suggestion and does require more troublesome art to be made, but I think his character deserves it, perhaps give him a fancy Gondor style shoulder cloak?
might do. Don't hold your breath though, it's only one character after all

An option to stop in party arguing permanently, perhaps a persuasion based text option that puts characters racial prejudices aside for good. The one thing that irritated me with Vanilla Mount & Blade was the arguing.
NPCs might argue from time to time but they wont live you because of this. I think some argument now and then is a good thing for ME atmosphere
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:49:09 am by GetAssista »

Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 07:26:28 am »
Suggestion to solve the problem with wargs already pointed out in this thread:

Riderless Wargs are obviously turned into Wargs with invisible riders shortly after they are killed. Can you give those invisible riders a very fast , short-reach weapon that would represent warg's bites and claw slashes? That way, you could tone down their charge and have them get stuck in infantry lines while still causing damage. It would also enable wargs to bite horses which would make them slightly more usable against horsemen.
They have short couching lance now, to make AI take them as couching lancers. We decided for the lance to not deal damage though, since we can't get rid of "Couching damage XXX" message, which would be kinda strange to see when warg runs you over. We have some other interesting ideas about wargs vs horsemen to cure their utter ineffectiveness
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:47:27 am by GetAssista »

Offline Marmalade

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 10:03:51 am »
1) Since Dwarves can't buy Riding, why can they buy Mounted Archery?
good point! fixed in next patch
2) I've noticed many quests given by Isengard and Rohan to travel to settlements deep in Gondor - geographically very close, but worlds apart on the actual map, owing to all the mountains and pointy bits.

This is not always a bad thing (indeed, it can create some very interesting challenges), but since this can frequently create missions (e.g. spawning a scout party) of a danger disproportionate to the reward being offered, I do wonder if this could do with tweaking.
good point!
3) For a longer-term suggestion - is there anything that *can* be done about the native campaign AI? It's frustrating in it's tendency to stop besieging a settlement with three hundred men to chase after six scouts who wandered past.

I know that this is Native M&B behaviour, and that the Warband campaign AI improves this somewhat, but in Native this gameplay problem can be mitigated by your time as marshal, whereas this is apparently not the case here, as far as I have seen.
Yeah, we will definitely try do more things with AI
This must be a low priority - getting to a workable release with no CTDs, properly balanced and textured is far more important, since the campaign AI will currently get the job done, even if it's irritatingly dense.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 10:51:41 am by GetAssista »

Nameless One

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 11:00:28 am »
I'v tried playing an Uruk and I'm suffering from what I call "morale starvation" which is also present in many other M&B modules. It's very easy to get a large party of orcs because of the troops size bonus granted by orcs, but the result is a very slow party that cannot catch anything on the map. On the other hand, if you were to keep a smaller party, it would stand very little chance of similarly sized parties of humans or elves. My suggestion for solving this is to also have orcs give a bonus to pathfinding so that their large parties would move faster.
Instead we will increase orc movement rate at night more. Orcs should be able to run at night, while men will be slower at the same time
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 11:05:48 am by GetAssista »

Offline MadVader

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 11:39:31 am »
I'v tried playing an Uruk and I'm suffering from what I call "morale starvation" which is also present in many other M&B modules. It's very easy to get a large party of orcs because of the troops size bonus granted by orcs, but the result is a very slow party that cannot catch anything on the map. On the other hand, if you were to keep a smaller party, it would stand very little chance of similarly sized parties of humans or elves. My suggestion for solving this is to also have orcs give a bonus to pathfinding so that their large parties would move faster.
Instead we will increase orc movement rate at night more. Orcs should be able to run at night, while men will be slower at the same time
In your party, you should compensate by getting high party Pathfinding (you or a companion) and having a large portion of your party on mounts (e.g. more warg-riders). Also, have less (or none at all) infantry recruits with low Athletics.
There is a reason why large parties move slower. The orc troops usually have a high Athletics to simulate their nimbleness.
The Last Days 3.0 - the ultimate Mount and Blade mod: http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/board,20.0.html

Offline Tostito

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 12:12:51 pm »
My idea is to make a siege list similar to the reward items list, where you can spend your influence with your leader for the right to attack a city of your choice (no capitols). Surely that wouldn't be unbalanced considering how slowly you accrue influence points. Balance issues would then become just a matter of "pricing".

Even if there are big hoops. Say your character must reach the highest rank within your faction. Or you have to be level 30 or over. Or both. And the faction whose city you want to attack has to be at fair or weaker status before their cities show up on the list.

Wouldn't this be way cooler than having to rely on the excruciating Lord AI, or even their spotty quest giving? This way you guys can design a control that stops the game being too easy or over too quickly, but still let the players initiate an assault instead of waiting for a month with our mental defective lords only to chase scouts or rabbits or whatever tickles their peanut brains.

Also a system like that seems way easier to implement than recoding Lord AI from native to be bearable.

That actually sounds like a pretty neat solution to me. (not saying it'll be done, but i like it.)


Suggestion 2: Add some jokes to the Troll Cave troll about installing this mod wrong.

right? Also windy flora.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 12:14:32 pm by Merlkir »

Offline Sp00nlord

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 02:14:48 pm »
Only minor, but altering how long Beef takes to go off would be great. Given there's only 4 types of food you can easily get hold of up North it's a bit irritating that my 70 men can't even eat 1 lot of beef before it spoils. I need all the morale I can get.

Offline neuromant

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 04:53:02 pm »
Greetings every one !

First of all, I will start by saying how much impressed I am by your work. Not only you kept going to acheive your vision, despite all the drawbacks, and the time it took, but you also manage to realise it in a splendid way. It brings to the old Tolkien fan I am an incredible pleasure that no game - so far - had been able to. And I am sure that many people are, right now, slashing orcs with a big smile on their faces, thanking you with all their hearts. What strikes me even more is the time you spent answering suggestions and concern, removing bugs in the dev version, for bringing an even more polished game - a more than pro behaviour. Many congratulations to you !

I would like to make few suggestions, so maybe even you can improve your pleasure in playing this game, by adding something you did not think of - who knows (I definitely hope so) ?

1 - Would you consider adding by default this following mini-mod : cursor command ?
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,63370.0.html
It is Open Source, and it helps a great deal in terms of immersion on the battle field. It is a very simple addition that let you point somewhere to tell your men their new holding position. If you are walking, you know how painful it is to get your archers positionned properly and your infantery, and then be sure that your cavalry is not in an awkward place, etc, etc... I think it not overpowered (you still need to see the place to give the order), and definitely saves your day during siege defense.
Moreover, all the indications are given to implement it in a mod. But since yours has many customs scenes, and I guess mission templates, you are definitely better placed than me to know where to put it.

2 - On the balance side of things. I will first start by congratulating you again on that. Considering the huge number of items (all beautiful and detailed) and troops, the fact that the whole thing is more or less already balanced is impressive.
Nevertheless, I would point out, along with Anarchy, that the trolls seem a bit underpowered at the moment. I remember having read on this forum that, at some point, they were so overpowered that you could not kill them any more... and I guess the balance is hard to find (I am playing with the Lotlorien elves, which are very strong, so this might as well cause that...).
Maybe only increasing their numbers ? I never met more than one at the time on the battle field, but I guess that only two, ever three (oh dear...) would cause a devastating wreck.

3 - The goblins so far are very weak, and I mainly think it is a good thing. However, they do not take advantage of their number. When I fight against them (still with the elves), I can, rather easily, destroy a army with 5 against 1 odds.
My suggestion is then the following: for factions that are weak at distance (goblins are the only one I met so far, but there might be more), why not change the default behaviour to charge anyway (like the dunlendings are doing, because they don't have any archery) ? Goblins are (at least for the elves) more deadly up close. When I fought a huge battle against them, it was close at some point because I was so much outnumbered that we had no more arrows to fight... and we took some losses at close combat.

Maybe this is due to M&B limitations, in this case a new AI script would be needed. In any case, that is something I might look upon at some time (I have no deep knowledge of the module system, but I am decent with Python).

Not much more to say, so far. Please, receive once again my deepest thanks.. you did a fantastic job !

Offline Oyclo

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 08:45:47 pm »
1 - Elves should never get kill quests on other elves lore wise.  An elf killing an elf is a crime for the ages, and having the lady of the wood sending me off to kill another elf just doesn't feel right :)

WindusAndar

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 09:19:39 pm »
@Oyclo: I think the elf in question has already killed someone, before you killed him; thereby, he is an outcast/outlaw. Taking his life is just by nature's law. MURDER HIM!
----------

A suggestion I have is related to the screenshot of the tactical screen, during a siege I was engaged in. Specifically, I would like to point out the units' behaviour. All units are set to charge and they default to that order, even when their orders are changed. Archers ordered to stand ground/follow me will go back to charging after a few seconds. They do not use arrows, unless they have no room to charge forward.



This is not an issue with elves, as they are the right-hand of God in TLD, at the moment. However, I'm certain that other races, if composed of non-infantry units, will suffer losses, simply because their commander cannot keep them out of the fray or order them to do the right things, at the right time.

Are there plans to adjust this or shall we simply resort to using infantry only for sieges?

-------

A probably silly suggestion for the end game to be done much, much later:

If a player has finished wiping out the enemy factions in his area, at which point of time a relief force is sent to the other theatres of war, could we have an optional end-game for the player to set up a small fief/village of his own?

I don't mean that the player should desert the war and settle down to wife and kids. :P But, optionally, he could decide to found a small village, composed of 40 to 50 of his most experienced/about to retire troops. This would require resources and influence points and any developments made to the village would add bonuses to the faction's troops, aiding them in the far-off war effort.

To summarise, I am indicating something of a war-veterans' town/village. Something along the lines of Sparta, albeit tiny and expensive. Since the player's faction area has, relatively speaking, resolved its war problems, it could be considered rebuilding for the future and supplementing war convoys and supply efforts afar.

To make things easier to code/mod, there needn't be a separate village. It could also be implemented as an extension of your faction's capital. You would invest resources and influence in constructing a separate section in the capital city itself, where the troops would settle and develop it. The bonuses and development screens would be part of the capital city's menus itself, instead of being a separate town/village unit. Wouldn't this be easier to do?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:30:21 pm by WindusAndar »

Offline Shazbot

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Re: TLD 3.0 Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2011, 09:51:44 pm »
I'm not sure how faction-strength calculations are made, but they shoudn't be simply linear.  I'd recommend having three formulae for each faction:  Here's how it might work in psuedocode.

case strength <= 2500 && strength > 0

addStrength = 75 + (0.02*Strength)
strength = strength + addStrength
end case

case strength > 2500 && strength <= 5000

addStrength = 125
strength = strength + addStrength
end case

case strength > 5000

addStrength = (375 - (0.05*strength))
if addStrength > 0
{ strength = strength + addStrength }
else
{ strength = 7500,
factionMighty(2, faction)
}  // Capping faction strength at 7500, and incrementing the faction mighty variable which leads to special faction-related events caused by the faction being quite strong.

end case

We also need more special events, but I'm assuming they're coming.  It would really add to the feeling of inevitability if you win quite a number of good fights against mordor, and then events trigger where Mordor gets lots of extra power and extra armies come forth.  Remember, The Free People's winning the war should be all but impossible.

Don't forget to spread the nerfs around a little bit, many of the better good troops are a bit too effective on the battlefield, not just elves being full of beans.  There is too much difference between them in auto-resolve and while fighting, but that's inevitable.