Poll

What should I do to balance archery?

Increase quiver sizes (number of arrows)
12 (33.3%)
Decrease quiver sizes
0 (0%)
Improve speed of bows
8 (22.2%)
Lower speed of bows
2 (5.6%)
Improve bow damage
10 (27.8%)
Decrease bow damage
0 (0%)
Weaken some other insanely powerful weapon (post below)
0 (0%)
Create stronger PC and weaker NPC bows/arrows
3 (8.3%)
Do nothing
1 (2.8%)

Total Members Voted: 1

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Author Topic: What to Do with Archery  (Read 28949 times)

Cirdan

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2007, 10:18:29 AM »
Well, the Mongol Horde has had much more military success than the US Army. Also, it didn't standard-issue weapons, IIRC. I think the problem was more a "I have a bigger penis more weapons than you" mentality. Or just that, being nomads, the Mongols were used to travelling with loads of spare equipment. To be honest, having a specialised weapon for each situation does seem to have worked for them. Of course, with at least three horses per rider, they had a carrying capacity unmatched at the time.
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Offline ex_ottoyuhr

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2007, 11:55:22 PM »
Well, believe it or not, I have been at least sort of following this discussion -- I appreciate everyone continuing it -- but as Ron mentioned, the realistic combat system is going to change the whole thing pretty dramatically. I'll keep in mind, though, that horse archery has tended to be underpowered in ASLOW, at least for the player...

(And -- Ron, correct me if I'm wrong -- I think the system as it stands is in a stable and RCM-conversion-friendly state...)
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2007, 01:44:17 AM »
I'm on it ...

Got a little side-tracked this week.  I've got writer's block or something.  All these statistics just seem a scrambled mass to me.  (I suspect it's lack of sleep ... allergy season.)

But I should have a rough draft soon, if I can just concentrate for a few more minutes.

Note that, when I say "rough draft", I mean VERY rough.  Everything rounded to the nearest five points.  It will take some game time to knock the edges off of it.

But I'm still on it ... stand by.
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Offline ex_ottoyuhr

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2007, 09:54:40 PM »
Don't worry at all -- look what I haven't been doing. :) I just wanted to ensure that you weren't stuck and waiting for me...
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2007, 10:25:01 PM »
Quote from: ex_ottoyuhr on April 30, 2007, 09:54:40 PM
Don't worry at all -- look what I haven't been doing. :) I just wanted to ensure that you weren't stuck and waiting for me...

Rough draft is sent ... it's VERY rough, but it will give us a place to start.

----------------------------------------------

Note to all - either this version or the next, we will need some testers.  Prefer people with a background in playing/testing RCM mods.  This one plays kind of confusing ... a lot of horses out there, so things happen fast.  It's hard to follow who is winning.  Checking for balance will take more time than most.
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Xstarcraft5x

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2007, 07:54:05 PM »
i think u should make horse archery way easier. in .751 when i had about 5 HA and 4 PD and 180 proficiency in archery, shooting ppl from horses was like shooting ppl on foot. but any lower than like 4 HA wont work. i think you should make it so HA gets a lower stat (like 2 or 3) and then you need like 200 proficiency.
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2007, 08:36:47 PM »
Quote from: Xstarcraft5x on May 02, 2007, 07:54:05 PM
i think u should make horse archery way easier. in .751 when i had about 5 HA and 4 PD and 180 proficiency in archery, shooting ppl from horses was like shooting ppl on foot. but any lower than like 4 HA wont work. i think you should make it so HA gets a lower stat (like 2 or 3) and then you need like 200 proficiency.

You ever tried to shoot at anything from the back of a moving horse?

I haven't done so in years, not since I was a kid back on the farm, and we carried rifles and/or sidearms when riding ... all of my archery has been from the ground.  As a teenager, I played with the idea of running down certain animals using two guys on a small motorcycle - a driver, and a rider with a handgun (usually me ... my buddy couldn't hit a lake if he was standing on the bottom ... he later joined the army).  However, with modern firearms I can honestly say that shooting from anything moving, especially a stupid horse, is next to impossible.

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Tuckles

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2007, 09:00:56 PM »
Well, not if you're moving slowly. I'm sure you can still take aim when you're moving slowly. Also, aren't horse archers supposed to stop when they shoot?
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2007, 10:03:58 PM »
Quote from: Tuckles on May 02, 2007, 09:00:56 PM
Well, not if you're moving slowly. I'm sure you can still take aim when you're moving slowly. Also, aren't horse archers supposed to stop when they shoot?

Slow, fast ... doesn't make that much difference.  It's the vertical bounce that throws off your aim, not the overland speed.

And no, the Japanese and Mongol horse archers fired from full gallop.  They still do competitions of this across Asia ... and they fire at targets from a dead run.  I've seen it.  It's generally short-range, but they don't miss either.

Note that in M&B, the horse archery skill only affects the penalty from movement.  If the horse is completely stopped, it doesn't really do anything.

------------------------------------
Edit:

Try this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtKGvp0oIA
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4RIVUAg9Zg
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 10:08:03 PM by Ron Losey »
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LionNinja

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2007, 12:08:50 AM »
I actually find it way too easy, if you put it up to 9 then it's basically a case of just being able to aim at them and you're garaunteed to hit, i say make it harder if anything
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2007, 12:21:49 AM »
Ironically, that part is hard-code.  The only thing that can be changed is the accuracy of the bows ... and I have a pretty good formula for that (which takes into account how much harder it is to use heavier bows), already applied to the rough draft RCM version.

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Servitor

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2007, 08:22:05 AM »
I would like to see something like the real combat model for native. Weapons are just not lethal enough for my liking. Anyways, Bows should be Stronger and Slower.

I did an edit, for only now I saw the above tread.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 08:49:21 AM by Servitor »
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2007, 08:11:26 PM »
Yeah ... on that note ...

Changes to make this thing RCM compatible, and/or playable and believable, are taking more time than previously expected.  All fans: do stand by.

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Servitor

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Re: What to Do with Archery
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2007, 02:24:58 PM »
Edit:

Remove the retingle and slightly decrease the NPC wp_archery level. Then higher all missile weapon damage!  :o

Servitor
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 06:40:54 AM by Servitor »
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