Author Topic: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year! (And RCM discussion, go figure)  (Read 23626 times)

SerSlack

  • Guest
 :green:
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 11:02:51 am by Kiado »

Kiado

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 02:21:12 am »
Yes!  Happy New Year!

tommylaw

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 12:15:31 pm »
will the mod be done within the year?

Kiado

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 04:53:35 pm »
will the mod be done within the year?

I am guessing Q1 of 2012... 

Honestly, I would bet we will be alpha testing with a few testers within the next few weeks.   It shouldn't be too long after that before we release a Public Beta of it, and start getting some player feedback.  It really depends on how fast things can come together.   Clegane is working on the Troop trees, and as of right now, I am doing everything else.  I have quite a bit of time to work on it right now, so I have been adding quite a bit the last two weeks.

Done, as in officially "Done" with the mod, I can't say.  The final product is a ways off, but you should be running around Westeros here in the next month or so with a Beta level mod.   This is a rebuild of the mod from the ground up, with the older version being used just for reference.  It will most likely be quite a bit different from the old ASoIaF mod. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 04:56:30 pm by Kiado »

tommylaw

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 06:14:18 am »
thank god for you kiado

naptha

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 11:35:48 pm »
ah it makes my heart sing to hear of progress being made on this project. happy new year!

Kiado

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 01:29:57 pm »
I appreciate the support!  Spread the word! 

Offline Zyghor

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 03:58:51 pm »
Will the new version have RCM  :?:

Offline Clegane

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 05:04:47 pm »
Probably not.

PS: Happy New Year 4 days later.

Kiado

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 11:46:44 am »
Yeah, Probably not is the correct answer right now for sure.  It would be the least of concerns at this point. 

Realism is more important for non-fantasy mods in my opinion.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 12:08:57 pm »
I'll help if you do plan to incorporate RCM ... but you need to decide early.  If you try to add it later, it means reworking all kinds of stuff for game balance.

I mean, let's be honest - in Native, a staff is actually more effective against medium-armored opponents than a sword would be.  If you "balance" anything according to those standards, changing it over later is a complete write-off on the troop trees, character stats, party compositions and other balance-impacting issues.

Side note - once you adjust to the new number set, it effectively takes no more time than the Native numbers.  It's not a matter of "adding" anything, really.  Just a question of which set of numbers you use as a base for your new items.

Anyway, decide one way or the other.  Don't make your life harder by thinking you can switch over later.  That's just creating work.

Make the new year a good one ... minimize frustrations early.

Kiado

  • Guest
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2009, 01:46:05 pm »
Thanks for the information Mr. Losey.   We will take that under consideration for sure, and I would surely enlist your help with it.

I will have to discuss it with Clegane, and we currently don't have a lot of people visiting our little neck of the woods here, to make a vote worth while. 

I understand the argument for RCM for sure, but with so much else to do I don't know.

(I have to go pick up my daughter from school.  I will have to finish my response later.  Glad to see you read our boards still though. :)

EDIT: Clegane is going to handle putting the custom items in the mod, so I will see what he wants to do with it. 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 03:17:34 pm by Kiado »

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 10:42:02 pm »
Yeah, I keep up with your board.  Back when Sparehawk started this thing, it was designated to be an RCM mod ... so I check back occasionally.

Although I must admit, people call my grandfather "Mr. Losey" ... somehow I've never cared for titles.  It also makes me feel a little strange when my students call me "sir".  I wouldn't have made a very good knight.

Anyway, whenever you make a decision ....

Offline Clegane

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2009, 05:49:24 am »
So Ron, what does exactly imply the use of the RCM in gameplay mechanics and item stats modifications.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Didn't see one, so, Happy New Year!
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 06:51:58 am »
So Ron, what does exactly imply the use of the RCM in gameplay mechanics and item stats modifications.

There are a bunch of threads on it, particularly on OnR ... but the easiest way to handle it is to look for yourself.  Check out one of the RCM mods - Onin no Ran, or Mesoamerica, or the RCM retrofit for Native .90x (the latter being highly unbalanced - it was only a demo, not a playable mod).

In a word, data was tweaked so that weapons actually did damage, and armor actually provided protection, and horses actually moved faster than glaciers, and generally things better reflected the realistic problems associated with combat.

One example, just to explain how it works - bows and arrows.  Lets say, realistically, an arrow wound has about a 40 to 50% chance of being immediately debilitating to an unarmored target - slightly higher than the 30 to 35% chance of debilitation from a single bullet wound, based on U.S. studies of combat shootings from WW2 and FBI case files.  (It would be a very long story to explain how I know that - in fact, it could probably be the subject of a book or doctoral dissertation or some such.  But a trauma surgeon could confirm that, if you just want to check my data.)  Now, if you figure 40 to 45 hit points on a person, that's 50 to 60 hit points of damage rating (after power draw adjustments).  (Standard M&B formula is between 0.5 and 1.0 of rated damage, so 60 equals random damage number between 30 and 60, for an average of 45.)

Compare to Native ... about 30 damage for high-end bows, so 15 to 30 points of damage on 40 point human, says there is absolutely no way that one arrow will cause an unarmored human to go down, probably not even if you hit him in the eye.  Not only is that stupid, it it tactically annoying and distracting from game play.  It's counter-intuitive, and screws up game balance... not to mention being murder on the historical mods, since you can't simulate any real event when the physics apparently came from another universe.

Every item in the game has been adjusted this way - weapons, armor, horses, shields, anything with stats.

While the project was developed for historical mods, it has also proven quite popular with fantasy - the survey on the optional RCM package for TLD last release listed the RCM version as preferred more than 4 to 1, even though the unresolved game balance issues made it virtually unplayable.  (Side note - AW assures me that time will be taken to correct that issue next release.  It was not that RCM created balance issues - it merely highlighted them, because the player could no longer solo everything like some kind of invincible war god.)  So this goes far beyond just being realistic - the improvements in game play are more than worth the trouble.  It adds, in one person's description, "intensity".  (Forgot who told me that ... apologies to whoever it was.)

The good news is, if you want this - I've already done the work.  All you have to do is plug in the numbers, and I will even help with that part. 

(Side note - there will be a group, about 2% of players, who will object to the RCM on the grounds that they liked the comic book feel of killing 1000 troops solo, whipping around an axe the size of a stop sign like it was made of plastic and absorbing 10 arrows with apparently no ill effects.  They are also usually fans of Japanese animation and Hong-Kong chop-sockey flicks.  This group is usually very vocal in complaining, but surveys for several mods have continually shown them to be less than 5% of those bothering to vote.  The down side of going to RCM is listening to them call you terrorists and communists and traitors for "ruining" their life.  You have been warned.)

(Also side note - another possible down side of RCM stats.  Flashbacks have been reported among combat veterans and other survivors of armed conflict.  No kidding - I get personal messages along these lines from time to time.  I got it so real that it can actually be a little bit psychologically unsettling.  While some of them, after the fact, were very impressed - well, you have been warned.)

Try Onin-no-Ran for an example ... if you like the way combat feels in that mod, that's what I'm talking about.