Author Topic: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?  (Read 27607 times)

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2008, 10:56:54 PM »
Yeah, I found the "blood_per_hp" flag ... that's what I said, it needs to be set to about 300.

(My Python programming sucks, but I'm not completely illiterate.)

Is there no way to flag the damage as "blunt"/non-fatal?  Or get damage type off of the weapon used?

Another potentially useful thought, along with adding some randomness to the blood loss:  Might be useful if blunt damage caused less bleeding than the other two.  Not sure exactly how much less - broken bones, especially, do cause substantial internal bleeding, but not nearly as fast as if a sharp blade crosses even a minor artery.  Might start with half.

Even without a fix on that, this code is certainly destined to find its way into every one of the RCM mods ... I'll make sure of it.  It does what I couldn't do with stats alone - it makes getting injured a serious problem, even if the injury is relatively light.  Stops players from thinking like "well, I can take x hits...". 

Offline mfhberg

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2009, 02:14:40 PM »

Also, I haven't played with it enough to be sure, but I think that 100% of enemy downed from blood loss are killed.  Should be a way to lower that ... say, if bleeding is less than (x), target is rendered unconscious instead of dead.  (Value of x yet to be determined.  I would start with about 40, if I read the code right.)

Death: The only solution I can think of is adding troops of the same kind that bled to death to the parties after the battle, but I have not been able to figure out how to do this correctly in multiparty battles. I will keep working on it and see if I can find a solution.

Ignore this I'm just typing as I ponder.

Death -
Blood loss is killing (if blood loss is the last hp).
Blunt damage is not killing, even for massive head trauma, unless blood loss is the last hit point.
Cutting/piercing is always killing.

I see a problem if using a morale mod, those fleeing with wounds will usually die by blood loss.

Surgery (party skill) reduces (all) death to wounding by percentage. You could increase all parties or the winning parties surgery by one in the death/wounds portion of the code to reduce the number of deaths by blood loss.

To simulate first aid how about reducing blood loss by percentage (or increasing blood hp by percentage) according to troop or party First Aid skill?

mfberg

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2009, 07:47:21 PM »
Actually, running from a battle when wounded IS a very likely cause of death by blood loss.  Historically, retreats almost always result in the highest casualties, not just because the enemy can get at your backs, but because the wounded can't be pulled behind your lines to safety - they have to run along with everyone else.  Elevated heart rate and the inability to do anything about injuries (because you're running) is a sure formula for a fatality.  However, it goes both ways - caution on the winning side will also keep them in the battle longer, and therefore prevent their wounded from getting proper care as well.

I was very much figuring that you can't really perform much first aid while people are trying to kill you.  It just doesn't really work that way.  If M&B battles were really large (like, armies of thousands on the field for hours), it would be necessary to set up some kind of "stop fighting and treat injuries" script.  The way they are, I figure that function can be relegated to stuff that happens after the battle ends.

Party skills don't apply unless there is at least one hero character in the party - so the enemy does not generally get surgery skill.  This makes it a pain to take prisoners.

Amarillo

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2009, 01:46:25 PM »
I added some randomization to the code and updated my post on page three. The bleeding is now calculated (damage-threshold)*random(dmg_low_range,dmg_hi_range)/10 instead of just damage-threshold. dmg_low_range and dmg_hi_range is set to 6 and 12 by default so bleeding range roughly from 60% to 120% of the damage taken. What do you think?

The next thing to fix is stopping agents that bleed out from dying 100% of the time. The only solution I can think of is adding wounded troops to the party after the battle but this might be complicated, especially for multi-party battles. Have you been able to confirm if the surgery skill can stop bleeding agents from dying?

Sadly, there is no way of knowing what kind of damage an agent received. I suppose we could use the agent_get_wielded_item to calculate how many of the enemy agents are using weapons of a certain kind and then calculating the odds of getting hit by e.g. blunt damage. Not a very attractive solution in my opinion.


Offline Conners

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2009, 07:07:35 PM »
Would it be possible to replace the last HP(s) of Bleeding Damage with Cut or Pierce Damage? Or perhaps you could actually heal the soldier when they reach 1 or 0 so as to inflict 200 Pierce/Cut damage? That way, the Surgery Skill would kick in as normal, and they have a chance of dying or surviving.

Hope this was helpful.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2009, 08:17:48 PM »
Randomization is good.  Good move.

Have not been able to confirm the surgery skill thing ... didn't play it that long.  Been messing with the base RCM code instead, for ASoIaF, among others.

If we can't get them to survive as desired, the game can be balanced around it ... for example, tweaking the loot code so that taking prisoners is not the only way to make money.  So while correcting it is an objective, it is not critical.  Don't do anything really clumsy ... it's not worth it.

Amarillo

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Re: Has anyone experimented with a "blood loss" damage model?
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2009, 11:21:03 AM »
Would it be possible to replace the last HP(s) of Bleeding Damage with Cut or Pierce Damage? Or perhaps you could actually heal the soldier when they reach 1 or 0 so as to inflict 200 Pierce/Cut damage? That way, the Surgery Skill would kick in as normal, and they have a chance of dying or surviving.

Thank you for the input.

I can explain how the blood loss code works. When the agent has accumulated enough "blood points" the hitpoints will be set to a lover value using agent_set_hit_points. When the hitpoints of the agent reach zero the following happens; nothing. The agent will still be alive until receiving some actual damage. The only way of doing damage through a script is the function agent_deliver_damage_to_agent and for some reason this is very lethal.

I will do some experiments with your idea of adding hitpoints right before the killing blow and see if it helps.