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Author Topic: Book Discussion  (Read 18040 times)

pil313

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Book Discussion
« on: May 18, 2008, 04:22:46 am »
I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread devoted to the discussion of the series. This thread is does not need to concern the mod but if you like it can.

for those of you who have not finshed the series this thread may contain spoilers so be warned.

enjoy your discussions of this sweet series.

 

Agent Griff

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 10:35:38 am »
I, for one, have read all of the books released thus far (AGoT, ACoK, ASoS and AFfC) and I can say that I am anxiously waiting for A Dance with Dragons to see what Daenerys has been doing and Jon is up to, up North.

Is there any other reader out there who likes Jaime Lannister? I for one find his character to be one of the most charming ones, he has a certain flair and confidence. Arrogance as well, but that's to be expected when it comes to young men suddenly up-jumped because of political agendas (did you think he was asked to join the Kingsguard at fifteen because he was an extraordinary fighter?).

Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 11:52:53 am »
Oh, before reading Jaime's chapters I'd gladly bring him and Cersei to real life to kill both of them and after say to myself: "It's a pity they only can die once".

After Jaime's chapters I started to like more the character, but I still hate Cersei. You know, in those novels there is an athmospheric feeling: nobody is truly evil or completely good, just men under circumstances. It's clear on Jaime's evolution, he regrets some of his actions while he still remains arrogant; he starts to use his brain and tries to fix some of his past mistakes. Sandor is somehow like this.

Others, would seem good and chivalric at the beggining, just to show some hidden and obscure characteristic later in the plot. Renly, Stannis, Loras or some Northern and Riverlands lords fall in this place.

Only two main plot characters are appart: Cersei and Littlefinger, both are really clever, greedish, coward and cruel.


Appart of everybody's favorits: Tyrion and Jon, I specially like Davos and septon Meribald. I liked Arys but he died (hehe, Martin kills 50% of his good characters).

Jheral

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 12:32:32 pm »
Oh, before reading Jaime's chapters I'd gladly bring him and Cersei to real life to kill both of them and after say to myself: "It's a pity they only can die once".

After Jaime's chapters I started to like more the character, but I still hate Cersei. You know, in those novels there is an athmospheric feeling: nobody is truly evil or completely good, just men under circumstances. It's clear on Jaime's evolution, he regrets some of his actions while he still remains arrogant; he starts to use his brain and tries to fix some of his past mistakes. Sandor is somehow like this.
Agreed. Before reading those chapters, Jamie was just an arrogant bastard, but after seeing it all from his perspective, I've started to like him. I guess losing a hand can really change how you think.

Cersei is still an evil bitch, though. :)
Quote
Only two main plot characters are appart: Cersei and Littlefinger, both are really clever, greedish, coward and cruel.
I kind of liked Littlefinger, actually. You've really got to admire his skill at manipulating others (and remember, he did rid us of Lysa Arryn. That alone makes him likable, in my eyes).

Agent Griff

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 01:40:59 pm »
Spoilers ahead for all the books:

Littlefinger's intentions can sometimes be honourable, like in the way he helped Sansa escape from King's Landing but whenever I read about him, I keep thinking: "That's the bastard who betrayed Ned Stark".

Of course, he does have some incredibly witty and funny lines like:

Eddard Stark: But Lord Baelish, what you're proposing is treason!
Petyr Baelish: Only if we loose.

or:

Sansa Stark: You will lie like that to Lord Nestor Royce?
Petyr Baelish: We'll feed him wine and lies, and he'll enjoy it and ask for more.

Gotta love lines like that. Martin really is a genius when it comes to such humorous lines.

Jordash

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 10:03:21 pm »
My favorite characters aren't necessarily the ones I like the most (as human beings), but are usually ones with a lot of depth. Jamie is by far my favorite character, though: he's very complex and shows a lot of character development throughout the book, and I actually like him as an individual. I also like Littlefinger's character - what with his scheming and cunning - though he's too self-serving to like on a personal level.

And, the obvious three are Dany, Jon, and Tyrion; I haven't run into anyone who doesn't have them in the top of their lists, and for good reason. They're the most likable and are the easiest to identify with. Arya is another character like this and I can't wait to see where she goes in her life.

My favorite non-major character is The Hound followed by I think Lord Frey. Frey is such a bastard yet I can't help but admire his complexity and cunning.

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2008, 01:41:44 am »
Quote from: Jordash link=topic=1358.msg27033#msg27033 date=1211169801
Lord Frey. Frey is such a bastard yet I can't help but admire his complexity and cunning.
[/quote

That guy is pretty lucky millions of wives and still getting more, the red wedding did make me want to repeatdly stab him but he is a lucky bloke.

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 03:55:20 am »
Reading Eddard's chapters sometimes made me want to go look for a /facepalm large enough to cover an elephant's arse. Too bloody honourable, and not enough pragmatism.

I also felt like strangling Sansa in AGoT; in d20 terms, she's got either WIS 6, INT 6, or both. She does wise up a fair bit in the later, though there's always this little part of me that goes 'if you'd just died after the Hand's tourney all that shit wouldn't have happened to your house'.

Jon Snow's and Tyrion's chapters are my favourite. I also like Davos' chapters; if only Eddard Stark had been more like Davos, the bloody lions would have been dead. ???

Personally, I don't like Catelyn's and Brienne's chapters too much, they are all too 'emo' for my liking.


Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 06:18:23 am »
Useless spoiler warning: if you 've been reading until here, we 've already "stolen" the books to you. :green:

Littlefinger's intentions can sometimes be honourable, like in the way he helped Sansa escape from King's Landing but whenever I read about him, I keep thinking: "That's the bastard who betrayed Ned Stark".

Of course, he does have some incredibly witty and funny lines
When it comes to witty and funny comments, nobody beats Tyrion, though Petyr has really good ones. To me, Petyr is the one who arranged the main plot, cheating Lysa, arranging both Robert (Arryn and Baratheon) deaths, Eddard's death (even if he only wanted him to be jailed), the attempt to slain Bran (he suposedly gave the dagger to the assasain). However, scheming Joffrey's death and using Cersei as a pupet makes me to like him from time to time.

And, the obvious three are Dany, Jon, and Tyrion; I haven't run into anyone who doesn't have them in the top of their lists, and for good reason. They're the most likable and are the easiest to identify with. Arya is another character like this and I can't wait to see where she goes in her life.
Now you have one: to me Davos>Daenerys. Daenerys is a really good character, but I like more Davos. Jon is the typicall goodie from adventure books, he has a lost love, a lost family, is trapped in an order but decides to face a supernatural enemy. Daenerys is a really good character, not strong, not the most intelligent in the room, but she managed to create an army from scratch. But... despite the returning of the dragons, I don't like her cause she has everything: an army, scorts, dragons, a claim to a throne and a prophecy (not only in Westeros, also the Red Priests have one like that) to place her in the center of the known universe.

On the other side you have Davos: a low-born man, he was knighted even when he didn't wanted to in exchange of his hand. He has nothing, just his family and his boat. His main proudness is seeing his sons growing up and learning to read or command. But he serves a hard, inflexible and cruel man... and he remains loyal to him even when he lost 2 or 3 sons due his madness and against his counsel (send some galleys upstream to check the river before engaging the garrison).

My most liked character is Tyrion, and it isn't much related with his handicaps.

Reading Eddard's chapters sometimes made me want to go look for a /facepalm large enough to cover an elephant's arse. Too bloody honourable, and not enough pragmatism.
Agreed. I liked the character, but was too straight and inflexible. He and Stannis are the "dark side" of the goodies (if there are goodies in those novels). Anyways, it was a shock when he died in the middle of aGoT.

I also felt like strangling Sansa in AGoT; in d20 terms, she's got either WIS 6, INT 6, or both. She does wise up a fair bit in the later, though there's always this little part of me that goes 'if you'd just died after the Hand's tourney all that shit wouldn't have happened to your house'.
Hehe, she is like Catelyn (another character I don't like too much) and she is just a little girl (I know Arya too, but she is different). I wondered if Cersei was like Sansa when she was younger.

Non main plot characters I like:
Aemon
Tywin
Victarion

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2008, 05:54:11 am »
Something that redeems Petyr in my eyes is that he's got a certain je ne sais quois. The guy is a master manipulator.

Of course, the fact that he is contemptous of Cersei doesn't hurt to...  :D

Agent Griff

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 11:49:40 am »
Have any of you read the Dunk & Egg short stories? I've read The Hedge Knight and I think there are a great many similarities with the 2001 movie A Knight's Tale starring Heath Ledger. For one, both of the protagonists were squires to minor knights, and both of them take their master's place soon after their deaths, fighting in tournaments and having certain success. It's clearer in the case of the movie, but the short story handles it with great success as well, in a way that I personally didn't expect. There are also many great characters in the story and you get to find out why there are Red Apple Fossoways and Green Apple Fossoways. It all comes down to a conflict within the time-frame of this story. Besides that, there are references to current ASoIaF characters like Aemon Targaryen (who was a maester in training back then).

After reading The Hedge Knight I'm very keen now on acquiring the second short story, The Sworn Sword.

There's also a third story, The Mystery Knight being written right now by GRRM.

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 09:36:52 pm »
I've read both the graphic novels and short story versions of 'The Hedge Knight', and I have to say that it's a great story. I particularly enjoyed reading about the split in the Fossoway family, and Baelor Breakspear's death was a big shock. GRRM never fails to impress.

'The Sword Sword' also has a graphic novel in production by Dabel Bros.  :D
The short story version is also pretty engaging, with Dunk (rather than Ser Duncan) dispatching another opponent.  :green:

I just hope that 'The Mystery Knight' refers to the Harrenhal tournament...

Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 06:22:25 am »
Allright, I'm going to buy those after my exams. If they aren't available in Spanish, I'll order them from England. :green:

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2008, 09:16:06 pm »
i can't remember what book it was in but the best line by any character was when tyrion was refering to how he wished to die he said something like "i wanna die in my bed with a maidens mouth on my cock" i thought that was a great line

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2008, 09:44:01 am »
Tyrion beats most characters in terms of number of quotable lines. Period.  :green:

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2008, 01:11:02 am »
Has anyone heard of a release date for the next book?

Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2008, 08:23:20 am »
Has anyone heard of a release date for the next book?

G.R. Martin's official website.

This summer I am scheduled to travel to Spain to speak at Semana Negra in Gijon(1), make some appearances in Madrid and Barcelona, and then head over to Portugal to visit with my publishers and readers there. I want to have A DANCE WITH DRAGONS done and delivered before I leave. If that happens, the book will likely be published in the fall of 2008 in the U.S, and somewhat earlier in the U.K(2). I am pleased with the way the writing is going at the moment, and I think these projections are realistic ones... but as you all know, I've been wrong before. So I am not swearing any blood oaths here

1-/ It's a pity Gijon is far away from mi city. Perhaps I'll try in Madrid or Barcelona.

2-/That was in February 2007. Shall any changes happen, those would certainly head for a delay rather than an earlier release. Of course, if you want it in any other language, add 1 year as minimun.

Beleg Strongbow

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 09:46:18 am »
FWIW, George just added a new sample over at his website - pretty good stuff if you're a fan of a certain short Lannister!

Agent Griff

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2008, 11:13:11 am »
Who isn't? Everyone seems to love Tyrion.

Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2008, 05:19:10 pm »
There was an "heretic" >:D at westeros.org forums who disliked Tyrion and complained about everybody liking him. I guess there are many more, but they are largely outnumbered by Imp fans.

Offline Elmar Bijlsma

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2008, 02:17:45 pm »
I really like Jon Snow and Tyrion, but have a soft spot for Varys. How can you not love someone who is in the centre of so many manipulations yet always seems to be in control without having an actual power base. He has some decent lines too. Best of all, he seemingly does try to to be "good" even if his Good is not everyone else's Good. I wonder where he will surface next. Daenarys seems a good bet, everyone else is rocking the boat he tries to steady far too much. Also, i love how he's still an enigma four books in.

I soured on Davos midway through the books for being too much of a coward to desert Stannis, who is such a useless douchebag. He finally grew a pair later on, but too late for me.
While I like the Daenerys' character, I  HATE her chapters. I just want her to get stuck in with everyone else. With so many breaks in her favour she shouldn't be faffing about like she is. She's not even on the sidelines!


GRRM really should get moving on the books though. We were told the last book was basically split in two because it was too large, so we'd get it in two separate instalments, Feast for crows and Dance with Dragons. so why are we still waiting on Dance with Dragons?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 02:20:10 pm by Elmar Bijlsma »

Nahadiel

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2008, 09:27:21 am »
GRRM really should get moving on the books though. We were told the last book was basically split in two because it was too large, so we'd get it in two separate instalments, Feast for crows and Dance with Dragons. so why are we still waiting on Dance with Dragons?

In my language version there is a note saying he had written more than he had initially intended for this book, so he had to split it in two halves. The point is that he didn't make a chronological split (DwD going right after aFfC); he took half the characters to write aFfC and now he has the other half for DwD.

And there is the editors, managers and publicity's business... the more they delay it, the bigger'n faster will be the salerates. It's a pity, cause Spanish editor did the same with aFfC. They said they were waiting for DwD to be released in English to translate it and so, release aFfC and DwD together in Spain. After more than one year and a half, they had to accept DwD wasn't about to be released for a long time... despite they had knew it from the beginning, cause slow DwD progress is a widely known issue.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 09:30:35 am by Nahadiel »

buminabox

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2008, 08:59:06 am »
I hope Victarion and Loras are POV characters in aDwD.

Agent Griff

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2008, 01:20:49 pm »
I really like Loras. I was genuinely happy for Sansa when she thought she was actually going to marry him.

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2008, 02:02:20 am »
Loras is likeable however he can come across as a bit of a tosser at some points.

buminabox

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 08:55:41 pm »
I thought this was sort of funny(don't look if you haven't finished the books);



Offline Zenosknight

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2008, 08:03:06 am »
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOOLOL

..........................

Pardon my french. :-[

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2008, 02:34:40 am »
The life of Sansa all summed up and can be read in about 30 seconds fantastic

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2008, 11:33:23 am »
Is anyone keeping up with the ASOIAF RPG?

pil313

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2008, 04:06:18 am »
there is an ASOFAI RPG coming out?!?!?!?!

Night Ninja

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Re: Book Discussion
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2008, 07:29:25 am »
Pen and paper.

http://www.greenronin.com/sifrp/

There's also the older d20 ASOIAF RPG by Guardians of Order, but you'll have to torrent that one or buy it off ebay.