login

Author Topic: Tweaking troops  (Read 61934 times)

Sparehawk

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2008, 04:25:20 am »
I also liked the idea of sworn troops having the extra tier as in 0.4.1. I felt this accurately reflected the dedicated resources only available to recognized masters of a large organization... something not available to say, mercenaries or bandits. Could Lannisters field Tournament-level knights to the battlefield nearly unmatched in skill and equipment? Absolutely. Could a top tier bandit or mercenary (hedge-knight) match this? Not so much.

There will be an "extra tiers" in kingdoms' armies. Each kingdom will not have all available troops in it's army. I assume, there will be totally a 8-10 troops types in each kingdom's army. So, the final stages of lowborn and sworn troops' trees will be such "extra tiers". However, for a troops, serving a player, there is no big difference, where exactly they were recruited, with time and money they could learn almost any skill...

Nahadiel

  • Guest
Re: RCM for Ice&Fire (aka Items Tweaking)
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2008, 02:36:15 pm »
I've read several articles about balancing in strategy and role-playing games, and now have several ideas about balancing different kingdoms' armies and items' prices.
However, I'm planning to engage in it only after I'll finish with sailing AI.

I thin I mentioned it on the original thread. I've got the RPG of Game of Thrones, I dislike d20 system but I bought it anyways. It has prices about weapons, armors and horses, though the amounts are not nearly the same, it can provide some odds and references. Also, it comes with some info about each main House's armies, the odds between infantrymen and cavalry and even some preferred tactics. However it's not written by G. R. Martin, but was somehow supervised by him and approved.

Sparehawk

  • Guest
Re: RCM for Ice&Fire (aka Items Tweaking)
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2008, 03:12:39 pm »
I've read several articles about balancing in strategy and role-playing games, and now have several ideas about balancing different kingdoms' armies and items' prices.
However, I'm planning to engage in it only after I'll finish with sailing AI.

I thin I mentioned it on the original thread. I've got the RPG of Game of Thrones, I dislike d20 system but I bought it anyways. It has prices about weapons, armors and horses, though the amounts are not nearly the same, it can provide some odds and references. Also, it comes with some info about each main House's armies, the odds between infantrymen and cavalry and even some preferred tactics. However it's not written by G. R. Martin, but was somehow supervised by him and approved.

It's cool. Could you, please, post here or mail me some quotes from it's documentation, especially the parts about armies?

Skunky Lee

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2008, 04:59:56 am »
Now I was thinking something about the Others...
Atm, it's completely too easy to kill them. Not just the others, but wigths as well. In the books, the only really effective thing against them is fire, but I dont think fire damage is possible to do in the current M&B version, so I reckon you could somehow simulate the zombie effect by giving wights insanely high hitpoints.

Now, no wight actually carries any heavy armor (Unless we're talking about the unfortunate Ser Royce who got pwned in the prologue of the first book  :P), so blades should deal somewhere around 70-80 damage per strike? I mean, from normal middle-tier troops, not the player char. Atm they're too weak, too wildling-like. If you buff their HP's to somewhere 400-600 range, methinks we'de stop seeing creatures that can have their guts spilled out and still advance killed in 1 hit by pretty much any knight. When/if fire-type damage gets implemented, they could only be succeptible to that.  :P

Sure it would make the Others parties a bitch to kill, but shouldnt they BE a bitch to kill?

Oh, and btw, I'm happy with the Others themselves ^^
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 05:02:05 am by Skunky Lee »

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2008, 05:25:47 am »
Whatever the "others" wear can be tweaked to give them armor values of whatever you think appropriate ... and by flagging those items as "unique", the player will never be able to get them.  (That's the way the trolls were done in TLD.  Their skin was really an "armor".)  It doesn't matter if the item is obviously plate armor, or if it's a head scarf, or if it's completely invisible.  (Some of the Native LOD's are actually zero poly - no actual model, just an empty screen entry in the BRF file.)  It can still be given a gazillion points of armor if you want.

However when going through the stats for RCM, I couldn't really figure out what exactly the undead types were supposed to be wearing.  I tried to give a couple of their items imposing stats, but I was pretty sure that not all of them were included in the item file.


Nahadiel

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2008, 06:15:18 am »
The wights just carry the armor they had before their death, but usually drop their weapons as they seem to be insanely strong (this could be difficult to create with RCM, I think even a 10 power strike with bare hands would deal no damage, or a really low one, to a decent armor). Anyways, I'm not sure if they carried some weapons, so maybe they could.

About the Others, they use a really wierd armor, it changes itself to match the surrounding shadows and colour, as a charmeleon. I don't know if it's a chain or plate mail, if complete or just half-body. And have no idea about its resistance as no single character was able to hit it with normal weapons. Their weapons seem to be only swords. These swords look like blue-ice if I recall it right, are really thiny and fast and they spread coldness to wathever it touches, so it can break steel weapons. Also they made some crying metalic noise when they are swung.

Other features about the Others: they don't make noise while walking, only obsidiane has been proved to kill them, and they ride undead horses (and Westeros own mythology says they even ride some giant ice spiders.)

Sparehawk

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2008, 07:08:41 am »
The wights just carry the armor they had before their death, but usually drop their weapons as they seem to be insanely strong (this could be difficult to create with RCM, I think even a 10 power strike with bare hands would deal no damage, or a really low one, to a decent armor). Anyways, I'm not sure if they carried some weapons, so maybe they could.

About the Others, they use a really wierd armor, it changes itself to match the surrounding shadows and colour, as a charmeleon. I don't know if it's a chain or plate mail, if complete or just half-body. And have no idea about its resistance as no single character was able to hit it with normal weapons. Their weapons seem to be only swords. These swords look like blue-ice if I recall it right, are really thiny and fast and they spread coldness to wathever it touches, so it can break steel weapons. Also they made some crying metalic noise when they are swung.

Other features about the Others: they don't make noise while walking, only obsidiane has been proved to kill them, and they ride undead horses (and Westeros own mythology says they even ride some giant ice spiders.)

I'm thinking it would be impossible to make Others in game exactly like in books... M&B engine have it's limitations...

However, I've just got one a quite weird idea... Since there are no parties in game, consisting from both living and undeads, and there are very limited list of weapons that could hurt them, I think it's still possible to make Others and their servants to be vulnerable only to valyrian and obsidian weapons. ;)
It's a simple trick: give Others and wights nearly impassible for usual weapons armor, and before any battle - if enemy is Others' party - to change all valyrian/obsidian weapon in player's party to the much more powerful versions, able to pierce Others' armor. When battle ends - change them back.
So, in battles with usual opponents valyrian steel will be just slightly better then usual weapon and obsidian maybe even worse, but in battle against Others, valyrian steel and obsidian will be the only weapon capable to hurt enemies...

What do you thinking about such idea?

As for wights, I'm not sure yet, but maybe it's possible to make some kind of "invisible" weapon, that deals good damage, but combatant with it looks like barehanded?

Undead horses will be added to mod as soon as anybody makes textures for them.

And another moment... I'm not sure yet if it could be scripted, but IMHO it should be impossible to use cavalry against Others, since living horses feels incredible fear in undeads' presence.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2008, 07:46:35 am »
Invisible or hand-shaped weapons are possible.  That can be modeled without too much trouble.  I was actually thinking about doing something like that for fantasy-themed characters that have claws, like werewolves or such. 

(I've been thinking of doing a generic mod-community fantasy pack for some time, just to give people a place to throw all their wild ideas for exotic equipment and get a chance to beat up humanoid monsters.  Since the demise of Highelf's "fantasy mod", TLD is the only standing "high-fantasy" setting, and the lore there is tightly controlled by the books.  But a number of things have stopped me ... not the least of which being work on several well-established projects waiting on me... plus I would need the help of some other good modders to cover the skills I don't have.  But that's why I've been thinking through stuff like that.)

It might be possible to add something to particular weapons with special damage scripts (on hit do x damage to character type undead), and then make their armor against anything else to be like 500 points.  It would take some skill with Python to set it up right. (translation: I can't do it myself ... but somebody like Fisheye or Highlander, who is good with stuff like that.  Even then, it's going to be no small project.)

However, trying to change out every weapon in the game with scripts would be an impossible nightmare.  Bad plan.  Most horrible bad plan in a long list of bad plans.


I get the feeling that a lot of stuff that needs to be in here has not been planned out ahead of time.  That's a worrying trend.  (Heck, starting a mod without anybody on models is pretty serious, even if everything else was working perfectly.)

Sparehawk

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2008, 08:50:40 am »
However, trying to change out every weapon in the game with scripts would be an impossible nightmare.  Bad plan.  Most horrible bad plan in a long list of bad plans.

Not every weapon... Just a dozen of them...
But well, maybe it's really not so good idea.

I get the feeling that a lot of stuff that needs to be in here has not been planned out ahead of time.  That's a worrying trend.  (Heck, starting a mod without anybody on models is pretty serious, even if everything else was working perfectly.)

Well, maybe if I began work on this mod from the beginning, I would not risk to start it.
But this project was started by another man, and when I've found it, I've looked on it and like it, but I thought that it could be much better... But former author said that he wouldn't work on this mod any more, and there was no more people around who want and can to continue his work...
I'm a programmer in RL, I have some experience in modding Morrowind, so I've decided that I can do it.
So it become my mod.

I'm trying to keep is organized - I'm tracking a TODO list and planning what should be done in next release and what should be done in some indefinite future... Well, I'm not too communicative guy and I'm not good in finding new team members... I'm more an idea generator and executor then organizer... But I'm trying my best and want to make this mod's gameplay as much interesting and immersive as possible... Maybe, it will never be such good as OnR or TLD now, but I think that something is better then nothing.

Nahadiel

  • Guest
Re: RCM for Ice&Fire (aka Items Tweaking)
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2008, 08:57:41 am »
First of all, three notes and a warning:
-This is gonna be a heavy long text, translated from my Spanish edition of "A game of Thrones" RPG d20 system.

-G. R. Martin has approved and authorised the contents of this book about Westeros. However, it contains some "grey" areas in where the content, though approved, could be changed in the future as the plot of the novels is developed.

-About strength of Houses and their numbers: these numbers were based upon the info showed in www.westeros.org. G. R. Martin allowed to use those numbers cause somehow fit the novels, but also said that weren't realistic from a medieval (historically) point of view.

-Please, be aware that by the "A Clash of Kings" timeframe, some details should be changed. Some Lords sworn allegiance to new Houses or some minor Houses are divided in their loyalty. Good examples could be Petyr Baelish (sworn to Arryn House and loyal to Lannisters on Kingslanding) and Florent House (most of it follows Renly but its main members are loyal to Stannis).

Lannisters: Kingslanding and Westernlands:
Kingslanding:
Its population is between 250k and 500k people. The city guard, commonly know as "Goldcloaks", garrisons around 2000 men (though Cersei raised this number by Clash of Kings timeframe). Those men are trained veterans (with Cersei massive conscription tons of greenish recruits flooded their ranks) prepared to keep order and peace in the city. But they are no real soldiers for an open-terrain battle. A common member wears a black chainmail with a golden cloak (though some wear complete body chainmail armor) and uses sword, spear or iron staff. Its officers wear plate or brigantine with golden discs as ornament, and use black pointed spears. The goldcloaks also have some mounted men prepared to act as lancers if needed.

Kingslanding has a fleet of 50 warships, including King Robert's Hammer and its 400 paddlers. Again, Tyrion, Cersei and others actions changed this number a bit, but no important warship was created by Clash of Kings timeframe.

Kingslanding surroundings:
The next houses are sworn to Kingslanding, and thus, to the man whose butt rests upon the Ironthrone: Blount, Brune, Chelsted, Farring, Hayford, Kettleblack, Rosby, Rykker, Slynt, Staunton and Stokeworth. Despite their sworn to the crown, many houses remain loyal to Targaryen House.

These houses can gather around 10k-15k soldiers.

Westernlands:
Western lands are really rich due the numerous gold veins of its mountains. Also, it is in a very good location to benefit from sea trade. This allows its Lords to hire the second biggest army of Westeros.

The main minor Houses sworn to Casterly Rock are: Brax, Broom, Clegane, Crakehall, Lefford, Lorch, Lydden, Marbrand, Payne, Prester, Serret, Swyft and Westerling (this one maybe should change is future scripted events if you wanna introduce them). Also the minor Houses of Shield Islands should be included.

Those Houses (including Lannisters) can gather a maximum of 50k men, but this means decimating the garrisons and taking many inexperienced recruits (and emptying Lannisport streets from scoundrels and criminals). Also, any army under a Lannister command (Jaime, Tyrion or Tywin) can afford to maintain a cavalry/infantry odd of 1/2 or even better. Again, this means that most of mounted soldiers will be hedge knights, mercenaries and recruits able to mount a horse.

There is a comment about Lannisport garrison: the wealth of the city allows it to maintain a semiprofessional unit of pikemen, considered the best levy of Westeros.

Their fleet has recovered from last Balon Greyjoys rebellion. Lannisport has around 30 medium-big sized warships and every coastal minor House has 2 or 3 medium-big warships. So they can gather up to 50-60 vessels and keep minimal coastal patrols.

North:
The North is huge and harsh, only wood, wool, furs, fish and stone crafts make a little trade as almost every location is selfsustained. Northern Lords can gather up to 45k men, but that takes a lot of time due the size of the North, that's why Robb had only 20k men. The other reason are the crops. The North is always covered by snow, and worsens along the winter, so every Lord is willing to leave some men to harvest the fields. If Robb has called to arms in the summer, he would be able to gather 10k men more. The odds between cavalry and infantry in the North are 1/4.

Northern Lords lack any important fleet since Brandon the Arsonist burned down almost every warship.

The main lesser Houses sworn to Winterfell are: Bolton, Cerwyn, Flint, Glover, Hornwood (almost extinct), Karstack (you could want to create a trigger that makes this house to leave Starks and become "independent"), Manderly, Mormont, Tallhart and Umber.

Also, there are some mountain clans sworn to Winterfell, they are minor houses but northmen call them clans and only use the name to name the former Lords of each clan: Wull, Flint, Harclay, Liddle, Knot, Norrey. Also, there are some Houses in Skagos island,tough they are almost independent: Crowl, Magnar y Stane.

Tully:
Riverland Lords can gather around 45k men, 4k of them belonging to Freys. Unfortunately, the discussions and internal troubles lessen this number as Bracken and Blackwood are fighting each other. Some will sworn loyalty to Kingslanding after their castles are taken and some even remain loyal to Targaryens. Also, every minor house has skiffs and other vessels able to sail along the Fork and minor rivers.

These are the minor houses sworn to Riverrun and some notes on them:
Blackwood (fighting against Bracken, but remain loyal to Riverrrun; its castle was burned down by Ser Gregor)
Bracken (at war with Blackwoods, their castle was burned down by Ser Gregor, in late timeframe they will leave Tully and become somehow independent)
Darry, its Lord is a 8 years old boy. Ser Gregor killed his father and elder brother who were loyal to Targaryens.
Frey, no comments about them as everybody knows them so well.
        Haigh and Herenford: Frey's vassals.
Mallister, successfully defended their properties against Ser Gregor. Also, they were the first line of coastal defence against Ironmen raids.
Paege, very close to Freys by marriages.
Piper
Ryger, as loyal to Targaryens as Darry and Mooton are.
Smallwood, vassals of Atranta branch of Vance.
Vance, it has tow branches: Vance of Atranta and Vance of Walkers Rest (not sure this is the right translation). Atranta ones are close friends of Edmure Tully, but the other branch is loyal to him as well. NOTE: Vance families, Darry and Piper have 3 or 4 common fiefs.
Whent, ancient owners of Harrenhal, Lady Whent is one the lasts Whent. They were loyal to Targaryens.

Now, you'll understand why one of the most rich areas of Westeros if pure chaos. ;)

Baratheon, Stormlands and Dragon Rock:
Stormlands:
There aren't big cities in Stormlands and the land is poor, except for Royal Forest, Wraith cape and the Jungle (right translations?). Only wood and furs make some trade.

Stormlands have a force of 30k men, but they are experienced ones and licensed veterans. The reason is a strong military tradition on these lands to resist the common Dornish and Tyrell raids. Also, they have strongholds with heavy walls to defend from those raids. But they have a low cavalry/infantry odd, similar to Northmen.

There is nothing said about their fleets, but I suppose they should have some ships to patrol their shores and islands.

Their sworn minor Houses: Buckler, Cafferen, Caron, Connington, Dondarrion, Errol, Estermont, Grandison, Hasty, Horpe, Lonmouth, Morrigen, Penrose, Seaworth, Selmy, Sunglass, Swann, Tarth, Trant, Wensington and Wylde.

DragonRock:
DragonRock and their sworn Lords can gather up to 3000 men, 400 of them would be mounted. Despite the low number, all of them are man-at-arms or knights. The power of DragonRock rests upon the Royal Fleet anchored there. It has 160 ships, 80 of them are war galleys with 100 paddlers or more. This could be different in Clash of Kings after the Blackwater battle and due the fact some Lords were loyal to Lannisters and Stannis hired mercenaries.

Minor Houses sworn to DragonRock: Bar Emmon, Celtigar, Massey and Velaryon.

Highgarden:
Vast farming lands and rich soil makes it very populated and the richest after Lannisters. It has the biggest "international" trading port: Hightower. Highgarden Lords can gather the astounding amount of 80k men, 1/2 or 1/3 of them mounted, mostly knights due its tradition. They even could command 100k men if needed, but that would mean calling for everybody between 18 and 50 and tons of villagers and lowering the odd of mounted men.

Also, thanks to Redwyne, Hightower and Shield Islands Houses it has 200 warships of 100 or more paddlers and some really big warships, though not as big as King Robert's Hammer. So, this fleet can face any other big fleet (Royal Fleet, Ironmen fleet and Kingslanding fleet).

Their minor Houses are:
Ashford, Beesbury, Caswell, Costayne, Crane, Florent (command 2k men, part of this family should be with Stannis as he is married with its Lord daughter), Fossoway (2 branches: Fossoway of Cider, red apple, and Fossoway of New Barrel, green apple), Hewett, Hightower (loyal to Targaryen), Inchfield, Mullendore, Oakhearth, Peake (joined the Darkfire in their uprising), Redwyne, Rowan, Serry, Tarly and Wyther.

Dorne:
Its wood used for high quality bows, good wine and fruits make some good trade to aid the crops around the rivers. Anyways, Dorne trades more with Free Cities than with other Westeros "kingdoms". Also, their different culture and close relationships with Free cities makes the rest of Westeros dislike them a bit. Dorne was completely loyal to Targaryens in Robert's rebellion.

Dorne battlefield tactics are different from the Westeros ones: Dorne favors mounted archers and lancers with light armor to perform guerrilla warfare (so almost every man is mounted). The reason is double: they have the fastest and more resitant (referring to stamina) horses and light armor is a must in Dorne's hot climate. So Dorne takes profit from the terrain and is really hard to beat if fighting on desert or mountain passages. Another reason is that Dorne isn't as populated as his neighbour Highgarden.

Dorne has few ships, many less than Highgarden or the Westernlanders.

Minor Houses sworn to Sunspear: Allyrion, Blackmont of Monegro (curiosly there is a desert in Spain called "Monegros"), Dalt, Dayne, Fowler, Gargalen, Manwoody, Qorgyle, Santagar, Toland, Uller, Wyl and Ironwood.

Arryn and The Vale:
The Vale is nearly as rich as Highgarden, but completely isolated from the rest of Westeros and far less populated. They can gather as many troops as Tullys or Starks, 45k men, but it would take littel time to do that as they are concentrated around the Vale. Also, from 1/2 to 1/3 would be mounted men and knights.

The Arryns have a little fleet similar to Dorne's one.

Minor Houses sworn to Arryn: Baelish, Belmore, Borrel (they were pirates once), Corbray, Egen, Grafton, Hardyng (sworn to Waynwood House), Hunter, Moore, Redfort, Royce, Templeton and Waynwood (remotely related to Starks).

Also, The Vale is the home for several wildlings clans, better armed than Northern wildlings. Those wildlings are totally independent and attack everybody on the mountains. They 've become a bigger threat to travellers.

Ironmen:
Iron isles are bad for growing crops and minery is reserved to "slaves" and lowest members of their society. Even worse, the scarce farmers have to do manually what in Westeros is done with horses, donkeys or bulls, as result of the lack of those animals in the isles. So, raids and piracy is the best way to get out of misery, appart of fishery.

Those men don't fear drown, so they carry their chainmails in naval battles, while boardig the enemy or simply working on the deck. This lifestyle means that every Ironmen is a proficient warrior and is willing to come aboard and start a pirate life before working on the mines or fishing. This somehow lessens the fact that Ironmen can only gather 20k men.

On the other hand, Ironmen have the biggest fleet. Iron isles host 500 or more war ships (much like viking drakkars). Those ships aren't as big as war galleys or dromonds, but much faster and maneuverable. So, despite they can't support war machines, they allow ironmen to quickly aboard enemy vessels and assault them. Ironmen ships have 20 paddlers, but some have 100 paddlers. The Ironfleet is the elite sea unit of the Ironmen.

Some minor Houses sworn to Greyjoys, in brackets come the isle they belong to: Botley (Pyke), Farwynd (Great Wyk), Goodbrother (Great Wyk), Harlaw (Harlaw), Merlyn (near town of Pebbleton, not sure what island it is), Myre (Harlaw), Orkwood (not mentioned), Stonetree (Harlaw), Volmark (Harlaw) and Wynche (from Ironforest but not sure what island it is).

Targaryen:
Not much by the moment.

I think that's all.

Oh, forgot about Kingsguards and Rainbowguards. The first of those will be their former commanders:
Kingsguard: Jaime Lannister, Sandor Clegane, Ser Boros Blount, Ser Meryn Trant, Ser Arys Oakhearth, Ser Preston Greenfield, Ser Mandon Moore.

Rainbowguard: Ser Loras Tyrell, Ser Bryce Caron, Ser Guyard Morrigen, Ser Parmen Crane, Ser Robar Royce, Ser Emmon Cuy, Brienne of Tarth. Loras has no color as he is the commander. Anyways I think he wears his green plate armor.

EDIT: maybe you should move it to other thread?. I think the RCM thread is not the proper one for this info, the post is totally out of topic.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 09:53:36 am by Nahadiel »

Skunky Lee

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2008, 11:45:00 am »
Dear lord, Nahadiel, I applaude you *insert bowing smilie*
This information should prove invaluable.

Sparehawk, if you need any help with this mod, I'd be glad to help. Since gio has somehow expressed readiness to try with texturing, you really only lack a modeller (and sadly, I suck at that). Now you have a info gatherer (kudos, Nahadiel), weapons master (Ron really seems to know about that stuff), a lore-master (pretty much anyone), and well... I'm somehow concerned that this mod might become a bit big for one person to handle. I'd be really sorry to see you leave the project if it gets too big.  :( I really dont have any special skills you could probably use... But dunno... Well, if you think of something...  ;)

Btw. Wights shouldnt have armor to simulate their zombie-like status. I mean, a longsword on a wight's skin would do just as much damage as it would to the living flesh, wights wear little armor (If the wights spruce from wildling just furs (even bronze plating was rare), and if they were once Nightwatch brothers some mail, furs and leather) that could protect them like plate.. If the wight would have it's arm cut off, it would still be "alive" and go after your throat. I think an unnaturaly high HP would simulate that better than invisible unique armor. :)

Agent Griff

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2008, 12:49:41 pm »
The only thing I could possibly help with is voice work and trying to recruit people to the mod, people Sparehawk might find useful. When it comes to people on this site, I think Ron would be much more successful since he knows all the major players at MBX much better than I do but when it comes to other people Sparehawk might want...well he himself said he was more of an executioner and not one for much talking so I could be the guy with the smooth tongue.

So there you have it. Oh, and based on something I actually read from some correspondence between fans and GRRM (the author of the books) himself, House Lannister is the wealthiest but House Tyrell can field the most troops. I've been reading such correspondence, you see, and have been keeping tabs on things that might prove to be useful for the mod. I'll keep doing so, on the lookout for most things that are military in nature, since those are probably the things that interest us most. Oh, and the Lannisport City Watch are known as some of the best drilled militia troops in Westeros, much like Nahadiel himself said.

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2008, 07:03:43 pm »
"Weapons master"? ... that's an interesting description of me.  Not really a term that makes much sense, if you've ever had someone try to kill you - then everybody suddenly feels like a victim.  (Especially when your attacker is a career criminal who does this sort of thing all the time ... or worse yet, a whole group of them.)  All a matter of perceptions, I guess ... what looked to an outside observer like a beautifully executed kill that the Samurai would have been proud of, was to the person involved something more along the lines of "He jumped me with a knife ... I was just trying to get the sucker off of me!"  Then you go and puke. 

It ain't like the movies, people....

-----------------------------------------

Seriously, I've said this before and I'll say it again:

Tutorials on this page will teach you modeling in Wings 3D.  Wings is a free program.  I taught myself in a matter of days ... and I may not be "good" (I still can't rig anything for crud ... and that requires other programs too), but the new weapons in OnR are mostly my work, to give you some idea how far a tutorial and a few days of practice will go.

You guys who are lamenting a lack of skills - get the skills.  A little practice will go a LONG way.

But I have a ton of stuff to model for OnR before I could get back to this mod, and I'm going to have a ton more things to do if M&B 1.0 ever gets done (Holy War and Mesoamerica will be porting to new version as well).  Plus I haven't read the books, so I don't know the lore here.  So somebody else is probably going to need to do the models.

Skunky Lee

  • Guest
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2008, 06:43:28 am »
If I offended you in any way, I sincerely apologise...
By "weapons master" I meant someone who knows a lot about effects of cold weapons, but I am not a native english speaker, so I reckon I was misunderstood. And you do know a lot about cold weapons. :)
True enough, I know something about fights also. Now there's never been a assasination attempt on my life, but I know how real fights look like. Only fistfights though, and I hope it's gonna stay that way. I know it's not like in the movies... Again, I'm really sorry if you found my "tag" offensive in any way...

Offline Ron Losey

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking troops
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2008, 07:57:40 am »
Offensive?  No, not in the least.  I just read it as overly honorific ... rather suggesting some sort of elite status.  That only scares me because I'm afraid someone else will get the wrong idea, and start thinking that real bloodshed makes you a "master" of something.  This is the kind of deranged thinking that fly-by-night "martial arts" schools promote by reinforcing the mental instabilities of their "students" (read "suckers"), by creating personality cults around somebody who claims to be "master" of some deadly art.  This usually ends up reinforcing violent behavior.  I don't want to see that kind of thinking around here.  It scares me.

So no, no offense.  Quite the opposite, actually ... I think you're giving me too much credit.  :-[

But just to set the record straight, in case anyone read that wrong:  Cutting down other humans in combat, regardless of your reasons, technique, or any other factor, does not make one a master of anything.  In a combat confrontation, there are only two kinds of people ... survivors, and casualties. 

I've come out as a survivor more than once, against statistical odds that say I must be hard as heck to kill.  And I've drawn blood on opponents that were considered by most to be unstoppable - career criminals with plenty of experience at bringing down armed opponents.  But I promise, it was not anything of knowledge or skill that saved me ... to be honest, my opponents probably had a slight advantage there (had they realized who they were dealing with) ... the only things that really mattered in any of those incidents were the determination to do whatever was necessary, and the dumb luck that said opponents underestimated me.  And while I was raised to do the former, and encouraged the latter, those are not things that you can be a "master" of.

Just clearing that up, before any kids read it and think, "Yeah, that's what I want to be - a WEAPONS MASTER."   ::)  There is no such animal, really.  There are people who can and will kill and/or maim other humans, and there are people who can't or won't.  Most of the ones who can and will are criminals and sociopaths, and the few of us have such power but refuse to use it for such ends ... we walk a thin line.  It is a terrifying place to live, fearing yourself ... fearing what you might do if you ever lose control.  Knowing that all your worst fears are summed up in your own shadow.  Being the poster-child for the treatment of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder doesn't exactly make you feel like "master" of much. 

This has been a public service announcement to anybody who thinks it would be cool to learn to fight with a knife.