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Author Topic: Peasants v.1  (Read 52331 times)

Offline Cartread

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2008, 08:48:54 AM »
Ron: Thanks for the info.  Yes, I'll change it back to .5, because its armor-defeating ability shouldn't be better than piercing.  The maceman in the picture up there is the only one who uses a blunt weapon, a slightly-bigger two-handed version of the spiked club.  I think I'll up its damage from 24->28.

I'm thinking of increasing melee_damage_speed_power, probably to 1.4 or 1.5 (but not too high because of power strike).

KON_Air: thanks!

Oh, I see, Merlkir.  Good luck on them.

Marcus: You may have won them because you killed their leader (Sir Maximus, etc.)?

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2008, 09:52:28 AM »
Ron: Thanks for the info.  Yes, I'll change it back to .5, because its armor-defeating ability shouldn't be better than piercing.  The maceman in the picture up there is the only one who uses a blunt weapon, a slightly-bigger two-handed version of the spiked club.  I think I'll up its damage from 24->28.

I'm thinking of increasing melee_damage_speed_power, probably to 1.4 or 1.5 (but not too high because of power strike).

Toying with the melee_damage_speed_power setting can also have highly undesirable effects.  Particularly, it effects both positive and negative speed bonus.  The negative side of that can get quite debilitating and bizarre, when a person backing away from you suddenly becomes absurdly damage-resistant.

Get me an e-mail address or some such - I'll send you some good war-hammers.  Their stats should be piercing, not blunt, but they will make for the anti-armor weapons you currently probably don't have.  Where blunt weapons should be an option would be with smallish clubs or light maces as sidearms, just for taking prisoners ... a common practice in many societies (Aztec wooden clubs, European non-spiked maces, the jitte of the Japanese samurai, Okinawan tonfa ...).  Your "mace-man" should at least have a MACE ... I'll throw in the reworked maces I did for "Cult of the Big Lizard".  (They're great - somewhat realistic, but utterly terrifying in appearance.)

Galdred

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2008, 11:35:35 AM »
Nice work, it definitely has a Lords of the Realm feel.
However, the interface is somewhat clunky:
it would be more practical to be able to remember last week peasants allocation, and to unassign one peasant at a time instead of reseting them all.

Nalfein

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 05:55:18 PM »
What do you do when you own the world? I just have to kill one more person.

Silver

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2008, 04:24:30 AM »
This is a great mod. But if you're still improving it, I'd suggest changing the factions tabards to their own colour instead of white, and making it a bit harder. At the moment it's really easy. Some more variations between the factions would also be nice, especially in looks.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2008, 05:33:33 AM »
A few strange quirks. 

Nowhere to buy horses for yourself, i.e. if yours is lame or dead, or for your flag bearer (or any other NPC characters which may or may not appear in future versions).

You can't just buy food for yourself directly either.  If your village is short, it's a convoluted process of donating money there and then riding to the market, buying food, riding back to the village and having them package it for you.

On that note, why are your personal finances not good enough when buying things for your village anyway? 

Hired mercenary troops should be an option.  Waiting half the game for your village to ever get built up enough to produce your troops is going to get absurd.  That or some more NPC's or something ... having to kill 9,000,000,000 sea raiders solo is getting old.

There are some odd quirks on those weapons issued when you start out.  Understandably, their strength requirements have been removed.  However, other parts of their stats are odd - pierce/cut damage types incorrect for RCM and the like.  It would probably be better to start characters out with better stats and use standard weapons.

The whole way that weeks of game time are passed arbitrarily in conversation is kind of strange.  Would it be possible to actually integrate the actions of peasants with existing game time?  Native did, but of course their village improvement system left much to be desired.  Still, that would be the goal.  (If you need to pass lots of time, have options in your village and/or taverns to wait several days at a time.)  The whole "push this button to make it become next week" routine is, shall we say, "inelegant" at best.... there must be a way to make this happen in continuous time.

---------------------------------
Don't take this as negative ... I realize this is version 0.1, and was created to test stuff like this.  I really like the way the villages are built up, and the resource management aspect.  In effect, Raz and myself were trying to plan something along these lines for elements of Holy War, but our plans were nowhere near this detailed.  Fujiwara has also been considering this for OnR, and Guspav was working on something similar for Mesoamerica ... so you're on the cutting edge of where the mod community is going.

You're just not quite there yet.

And still, if you need those improved weapons to replace some of the really ugly Native stuff, tell me where to send them.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:
OK, having played through a lot more of the game now, you most certainly have some serious balance issues.

The swordsmen, macemen, and axemen need heavier weapons, if you're going to go with the current armor scheme ... or else everybody needs to be limited to armor no heavier than maille.

As it currently sets, the mounted swordsmen have no weapons capable of really even denting each other.  Makes for a longer fight, but not in a logical way.  Although strangely realistic in its physics, it is odd in result, as real combatants would get heavier weapons to help deal with this.

This shouldn't take much doing ... the great benefit of the RCM is balance, that huge dis-proportionally heavy weapons are in turn much slower to use.  And again, I have some weapon models for you, that will help with the mace-men.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 05:45:08 AM by Ron Losey »

Cymro

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2008, 10:47:30 AM »
Comments and suggestions:
-Altogether, one of the best mods out there so far
-Humourous sounds :P
-Perhaps a "demolish" feature, with limited "slots" of land, so the player has to make more tactical decisions rather than just building everything
-A non RCM version as well? The AI just can't seem to grasp the concept of hitting for the weakest armour on a person (or using a thrust attack), and the player has to do the most of the work. If you send me the items.py file I would happily do this for you.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2008, 11:40:58 AM »

-A non RCM version as well? The AI just can't seem to grasp the concept of hitting for the weakest armour on a person (or using a thrust attack), and the player has to do the most of the work. If you send me the items.py file I would happily do this for you.

Decent armor should not have huge "weak points" that can be selectively targeted (unless someone is a complete fool - "duh, I think I'll wear 50 pounds of iron on my body but nothing protecting my head").  Nor should a thrust attack be substantially better at damaging armor than a heavy swing (unless your armor is a net of cables with one-inch holes between them ... but not too many people would call that armor).

There is a balance problem with the armor - the plate armor is, well, plate armor.  However, there are no major weapons in use that can reliably pierce plate armor.  (This is the reason that the "RCM for Native" comes with a disclaimer that it is not at all balanced for long-term play.)  The mace-men need some serious two-handed war hammers, and/or the swordsmen some heavy two-handers, or some such combination, or else the plate armor needs to be removed from everybody (or at least everybody but the castle lords).  Otherwise, the mounted swordsmen are both too strong for the rest of the game AND unable to reliably damage each other.

But this can be fixed.  It just has to be fixed.

Multiple versions, in contrast, are just creating two sets of balance problems.  And balancing that mess from Native is a lot harder to work with....

Offline Cartread

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2008, 07:44:48 PM »
First week of college in.  I'll work on Peasants this weekend.  apologies for not replying

Elpolodiablo

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 05:46:24 PM »
Loved it. Most of my problems have already been said BUT the models are a bit to high polly and things like the farms should not have a fence.

I would love to help I can texture and model With a bit of scripting.

Blademaster

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2008, 06:27:52 PM »
A while ago i had some beginning ideas, http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,31346.60.html.
however, after playing it more, i have some more/ some revisions:

The assigning generals/captains thing that i suggested was alot like lords of the realm 3.
The armor of the mounted swordsman is a little too strong. i say a little because i messed around with the stats
Overall: all weapons damage needs to be increased by ten, and all armor redused by 1/8, as well as some weight balancing.
Player needs better stats/ specializations ala CON_AIR style, ie extreme character customisation.
The choice at startup to do management time in weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or seasonally.

More economic choices, such as :
sheep farms for wool clothing/food for peasants
dairy farms for... dairy. and meat.
vegetable farming so the peasants will stop farting so mcuh when you talk to them :P (for big food bonus in spring to fill in the gaps between autumn)

Castles: castles will be built for the lord like walls: only the bigger the castle the longer it takes,
and that it will be a solid castle like in native (the current wall building i think may be why people try to be superconductive or something)
you, the lord, will live in the castle instead of in the town, and have an advisor to boss around instead of going in town all over the place.
faster enemy advancement/difficulty level= the rate of enemy advancement.
dialogue fix for admiring the lord, or better yet:
a courier to take your letters to a lord. so you would choose to complement a lord and the courier would ask you if you wanted to send any more letters, and you would either choose to insult/request/admire other lords, and if not, the courier would tell you that he would go to the lords as fast as he could.

Troops:  new troup ideas:

light/medium/heavy variations for melee troops, and no armor/light/medium for missile troops, in order of no armor, leather/studded leather, chain, and field plate/knight plate.

Skirmisher: throws javelins, +2 throwing
one handed macemen: a macemen with a shield. all macemen have +3 athletics, +2 powerstrike to whatever level the currently are
two handed axemen: self explanitory.
two handed swordsman: see above
axe, mace, and spear calvary: can be light, medium, heavy, or Very heavily armored, the latter being calvarier plate like it is now.

thats all i can think of for now, other than a rating:

Sounds: 4/5 original lotr2 goodness
Graphics: 3.5/5 pretty good, although needs some beautification, especially on the new plate, kind of crude.
Gameplay: 4.5/5  great, but can be way better
Interface: 3/5 frusterating, and not very user freindly, like xp :)
Dialogue: 2/5 not at all done yet, rather crude, and some dont even work.
Overall: 4.2-5/5 revolutionary mod, will be the basis of many others. great beta, absolutely awesome

keep it up Cartread, this is, and will be one of the greatest mods this game has ever seen, unless holy war has a full deck of aces op its sleeves/if it ever gets done.








Offline Ron Losey

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2008, 07:02:08 PM »
Blademaster:

the item stats are RCM ... although there are some serious balance issues, and we're looking into them.  The balance issues stem from certain units having plate armor, but then there being a lack of units with anti-armor weapons.  Hopefully the new mace-men will help - I just sent Cartred the "mace from heck" that I made for CBL, which should help even the score on armor.  Also, future swordsmen may need to go to two-handed blades.  We'll look into that possibility as well.

The simplicity of the troops is a bonus.  You would not want to have to sort through 100 different troop types.  Keeping it simple is part of the game.  If different factions had different troops, that might make a difference... but too many choices would be bad. 

Offline Cartread

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2008, 12:38:48 AM »
thanks for the help offering Elpolodiablo.  I'll pm you if I can find something to be done.

thanks for all the suggestions Blademaster, which I'll look up while editing.

Cymro: I've still got the native damages items.py, so i'll add the .py to the next version.

Ron: Ah, got it this time! thanks, yes it shall be used :)

Macemen and crossbowmen shall be the plate-defeaters.


I'm also thinking about something you said, Ron, so that mounted swordsmen may become knights and be more expensive--in terms of gold, and gold will be pain straight and from the player.  Gold which is mined will need to go through a mint.


Offline nema

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2008, 08:30:59 AM »
I am late a little bit, but it is real nice, real nice. :)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 03:14:37 AM by nema »

Keegan96730

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Re: Peasants v.1
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2008, 10:57:02 PM »
I think it looks like a nice mod so im going to try it :D



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