Author Topic: (old) TLD Help needed: Models and Voices  (Read 493869 times)

Offline Ancientwanker

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #360 on: October 21, 2007, 05:20:40 pm »
Quote
(Unless, AW has some specific policy for stuff made for TLD and appearing in this forum. But I don't think so.)

Not including this mtarini stuff here but for the general stuff like costumes, models or menu art I usually reserve it for TLD only.  Though Ive loaned out things here or there to other mods.  The only real point is to keep the mod looking somewhat unique while its under active development.  If other mods looked like TLD (especially to a great degree) I just wouldnt bother modding. 

Conversely we dont borrow graphics from other big mods.  I'm sure many mods have stuff we could use but that  wouldnt be fun for me.  The idea is to make it look as unique as possible within the community and that means everything takes longer for us.


aquiefrog

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #361 on: October 21, 2007, 08:21:09 pm »


preliminary model.  I can see a few errors in the model here and there, but I'm not sure how they happened.  I'll try adding textures for facial contours later.

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #362 on: October 21, 2007, 11:03:19 pm »
aquiefrog: very cool! But, I am a little confused: what is that? The new version of the previous helm or another type of helm? Sorry, I probably should know that.

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What AW says about model sharing between MODs makes perfect sense.

My point of view is that most of the stuff created for TLD is specifically Tolkein oriented, so other MODs should not have a place for them (unless they were Tolkien related mods too, in which case they should probably merge with this project anyway -- becoming a subproject like the movie sub-mod).

So that applies also to "my" Tolkien specific stuff like wargs or Argonaths or Saruman-handsign -- or the map (I have only partial authorship of all this stuff of course). If one was reusing any of that pretending that its LOTR nature is not important, probably he is misusing it without respecting the work that went into making it.

On the other hand, general useful stuff like the standart (or the procedural snow, or the mountain "style")... I think that they are just general improvement that should be reused where appropriate by other mods (or native, even) -- likewise, we should be allowed to borrow similarly general improvement from other mods (like we burrowed reflective water on map, I think). Same should go for the new GetAssista's fords, for example: it is a trick which is useful in general. (same for the weapon size reduction, etc).

(Naturally it always takes someone's permission to use his/her stuff (and even then, explicit crediting is due). I'm just stating what in my opinion people should allow to others)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 12:22:49 am by mtarini »

aquiefrog

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #363 on: October 22, 2007, 05:49:50 am »
mtarini: it's another type of helm.  AW said I should try making the other mask helm.  I took the upper part of the helm I made, made the mask, then stuck in the native mail coif model and combined the models.  It's crudely done, and the tri count is nearly 900.  I've deleted a lot of vertices that are unseen but there are some problems.  I might start this one over from scratch.

Yoshiboy

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #364 on: October 23, 2007, 12:31:34 pm »
mtarini, how interested (or able) would you be in writing a normalmap and specmap shader (specmap could be alpha channel of normalmap). I know we kind of already have spec maps with the iron shader but aren't they a little different to the conventional spec maps used in combination with normal maps. I don't know much about shaders but isn't the main issue here making them work with the animation of the verts when the models move?

Anyway, if you were to write this I would happily spend time creating normalmaps and spec maps for some or all of the TLD texture and native textures. I just think it would look so kickass.

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #365 on: October 23, 2007, 02:49:13 pm »
normal maps....aaah...*drools*
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Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #366 on: October 23, 2007, 04:08:51 pm »
mtarini, how interested (or able) would you be in writing a normalmap and specmap shader

can do.

I would say that a good, general setup could incorporate:

1* in the "bump" texture: XYZ Normal + specular
2* in the "diffuse" texture: RGB + transparency

Is that what we need? That (or small variations of that) wouldn't be a problem at all.

(Note: accessing two textures and computing lighting per pixel --both of which are required in that setup-- is considerably more computationally expensive than what the iron shader does. So it could have an impact on performance, especially when the objects will cover a large amount of pixels on the screen.)


I know we kind of already have spec maps with the iron shader but aren't they a little different to the conventional spec maps used in combination with normal maps

Yep. Sometimes, a specmap defines specular exponents per texel. In the Ironshader, they specify just a multiplicative weight in [0..1] for the specular term (the exponent is defined globally in the material instead). Is that the difference you are talking about? But that's not a big difference results-wise, I imagine.

Anyway, that can be very easily changed too.



All of what I said so far, is for a fixed (non rigged) objects.

I don't know much about shaders but isn't the main issue here making them work with the animation of the verts when the models move?

You are right in that this can be an issue.

Let me have a look at the current shader for rigged (i.e. animated with a skeleton) meshes

[... time passes...]

Hum, I think I got that.

In this settings, there are techniques to attach a normal map to that too. Just a little more expensive, but not too much. The normal map should define normals in Object space (as normal maps always do in M&B, from what I see in the shaders); but here there is one more thing: they must define the normals when the object is in the neutral pose. Edit: rephrased a little.

Also, it will be just an approximation, but should look quite decently, at least if the deformations caused by the pose of the skeleton does not introduce too severe deformations of the skin (like stretching of compression of areas, or non uniform re-scalings).


Just curious: how would you make the normal maps?


As for the implementation times, I predict that I will in totally deep real life **i* for about two weeks, until arond 1st of nov.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 08:02:25 pm by mtarini »

Offline Ursca

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #367 on: October 23, 2007, 04:45:50 pm »
I've opened a thread here, for any non-TLD specific shader stuff.

Not that I don't think everyone reads the TLD forums, but some of this stuff could do with more exposure.  :P

Offline Brutus

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #368 on: October 24, 2007, 12:36:46 am »

I built a helm based on Melkir's ironhead dwarf concept pic the other day.  This is all scaled, textured and .obj format (from Maya).     Still needs importing into BRFEdit and weight painting.  Not very familiar with BFREdit - if I can paint weights in Maya and import I'd be happy to do that too...  I had issues importing the DDS file into BRFEdit?  Object imported fine though.

I prefer the art gritty and dark compared to the fantasy fluff that is currently so popular.  I tried to give the helm teeth like some nasty underground critter the dwarves might represent in their war art.

I used the gondor_coif for a base (scale).  Eerything else is new.  It is 340 polys, not sure what the standards are. 

If you want this as-is or modified, and maybe a few more models, let me know.  I play it enough I feel I owe you folks something - hopefully its good enough...



 

Balduran

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #369 on: October 24, 2007, 12:38:58 am »
I know you all want to improve and so on, but please remember about the loosers with crappy computers...  ;)
It already takes ages to load a game.

Brutus-> Great model! But those teeth really don't fit a dwarf... A goblin maybe, but not a Khazad.

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #370 on: October 24, 2007, 01:26:50 am »
Brutus: great! The model itself is very good. The golden/bronze plating is also good. But :)

- don't fear to add more details to the texture! Dwarves would decorate like wild monkeys. I would suggest more subtle engravings in the steel, like runes, you can add some breathing holes or just some decorative rims, use celtic/viking/germanic patterns to break the steel mask a bit. Add some little rivets that hold the gold plating to the helmet..etc.
- the teeth are...hm, I felt I stressed them too much in the concept too. Make them engraved in the steel. If you want something golden, add some moustache, or make the noseguard golden decorated/plated.

But it's very nice work so far :) just needs a bit to finish. Thanks :)


edit: maybe...just maybe! :) try making the chainmail link smaller. I paint them rather big, but that's because I don't want to spend my whole life painting maille :D dwarves would rather use smaller ones. They'd be more bendable and the little added weight doesn't concern the dwarves much..
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 01:30:19 am by Merlkir »
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Offline Merlkir

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Father Chains

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #372 on: October 24, 2007, 02:35:57 am »
Wow, I love those WH concepts! The 'epic' ones we'd be wise to avoid, but the others, before they get too flamboyant and unrealistic(engineer pauldrons with mechanical arms, eh? :P), would be nice to explore in TLD. I also agree that Dwarven armour and weaponry would be embellished and engraved and whatnot to the extremes. Very meticulous little bastards.

Offline Brutus

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #373 on: October 24, 2007, 09:56:14 am »
Som really wild designs from WH dwarves. But it gives the idea a bit:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_03.jpg
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_04.jpg
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_05.jpg

but darker, worn out grim look is good :)

Merlkir I love your sketches.  I just paint them gritty in my mind.  8)  When I read the books, I thought of the setting as more dirty, maybe early-iron age even before steel.  Refugees, dark magical terror, and global tragedy.  I am sure my opinions here are not in line with the books... 

The helm was field armor.  If you guys play M&B like I do your character probably doesnt spend many days in parades, or even towns for that matter.  Armor gets flat and dirty almost instantly - not that this is a reality mod either...  The mail on the helm was meant to be large bronze rings sewn on to leather, and not so much the tight steel links that was indeed most desireable.  I admit it is not the greatest of textures regardless. :D 

I am familiar with the WK40K stuff and I love it!!!  But, thats another game.  That look and feel is copied in every fantasy game available now.  To me it looks puffy, plastic, and commercialized in a fantasy (not sci-fi) game.  But, if you guys want the model you can modify it and/or the texture it however you wish.  I am familiar with modding and know stuff needs to fit in with other art.  "Too many cooks in the kitchen..." thing. 

Besides, you guys have great texture artists already. To be honest, I figured whoever does your other textures would do this one as well.  It looks kind of lame when you have 2 different mail textures next to each other, i.e., helm and armor textures made by two different artists using different source art.  I just wanted something besides a checker pattern on it.
 

 



 

aquiefrog

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #374 on: October 24, 2007, 11:01:24 am »
I think my first mask helm is more or less finished (just need to do mtarini's suggestion)

this is work in progress of the second mask helm i made.  910 tri's.  I'll clean up the faces and remove insignificant vertices when I'm satisfied with the overall shape.  I'll also do the contour textures later.