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Author Topic: (old) TLD Help needed: Models and Voices  (Read 493942 times)

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #315 on: October 18, 2007, 01:44:07 pm »
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

it IS possible, a guy at taleworlds made an alpha shaped shiny spear. I think he used multimesh.
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Offline Ursca

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #316 on: October 18, 2007, 01:48:49 pm »
Unfortunately, you can't multimesh helmets.  :(

Offline Ancientwanker

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #317 on: October 18, 2007, 01:50:42 pm »
Yeah, some objects can be multi-meshed and can use both effects. I dont know which are which off-hand.  I know helms don't multi-mesh at least.

Edit: beaten to it.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 01:53:03 pm by Ancientwanker »

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #318 on: October 18, 2007, 01:58:55 pm »
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?


I didn't know that we add access to shaders, either! Yes, there is probably a lot that can be done, but me must think stuff, it is not like there a list of things to do. It is more like general, but constrained, programming. For example, it turns out that, if native didn't have reflective water, we could have programmed it ourselves for our Mods. I mean to say that reflective water is something Aramgan did (or his staff did), but it is not hard wired in M&B. I am quite experenced as shader writer, so propose stuff, and it might be doable. For example, red glowing lava "water" in the background, anybody? I made it as a test, but found that it looked nice.

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

Of course, you can have a fully specular object and alpha-based transparency. But the alpha channel of the texture is mapped either on transparency or on specularity.

Hum, no, you can't have a 5 channeled texture, but here are several ways out of this problem, that might be or not be useful:

1) have per-vertex alpha color dictate transparency, but texture alpha channel dictate specular coefficient (or viceversa) -- this requires another ad-hoc shader.

2) Use one of r,b,g channel for transparency, alpha for specular. The missing color channel can be made up (for example, assume R=G or R=G/2 or whatever).
-- this requires another ad-hoc shader.

3) Use alpha for transparency, and a second texture for translucency (edit: this is what people has been doing). But, I find it boring to edit, handle, load, and consume memory for two textures. Also, additional texture accesses are not free, performance-wise.

When possible, I like the 1 because it is pretty general and cheap on resources.

For these who missed it, vertices can be singularly colored, using BRF edit, or even hacking BRF files with an HEX editor (or in other ways as well).
Normally, RGB color of the vertex (interpolated across the polygon) is mixed (multiplied) with the color coming from the texture.
But the shader can be written to act differently, for example in 1) above.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:00:38 pm by mtarini »

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #319 on: October 18, 2007, 02:00:55 pm »
you can write shaders?!! I've been trying to learn it for ages :D

- glowing elven weapons?
- glowing elves?
- glowing walls of Minas Morgul?
- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
- the waving plumes and hair would be nice for Rohan..


pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:04:59 pm by Merlkir »
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Balduran

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #320 on: October 18, 2007, 02:03:01 pm »

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #321 on: October 18, 2007, 02:04:36 pm »

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.


Barad Dur SHOULD be accessible at some point :) I hope it will be. We can use lava in some interior scenes, the Barad Dur would be cool, Minas Morgul is more ghosty place, so probably not..
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Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #322 on: October 18, 2007, 02:07:55 pm »
you can write shaders?!!
Hem, didn't you see the waving stendart one? ;)

pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..

See my post above: can you model it using only polygons that are all shiny and polygons that are all un-shiny? If so, use Alpha to shape the plumes, and use per-vertex alpha to dictate how bright different parts are. I will make the shader that understands it that way. PS: per vertex alpha color can vary smoothly across the surface, doesn't have to be uniform.

Balduran

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #323 on: October 18, 2007, 02:13:09 pm »

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.


Barad Dur SHOULD be accessible at some point :) I hope it will be. We can use lava in some interior scenes, the Barad Dur would be cool, Minas Morgul is more ghosty place, so probably not..
Sweet  :)
Me hopes it too. Me wants to see boss and get my lousy pay!

Seriously though - If it will be implemented, i suggest moving the Mouth of Sauron guy there, AFAIR Sauron couldn't take physical form then. (On the other hand - Talking to an altar or a huge empty throne of some sort could prove interesting)

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #324 on: October 18, 2007, 02:55:03 pm »
you can write shaders?!!
Hem, didn't you see the waving stendart one? ;)

pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..

See my post above: can you model it using only polygons that are all shiny and polygons that are all un-shiny? If so, use Alpha to shape the plumes, and use per-vertex alpha to dictate how bright different parts are. I will make the shader that understands it that way. PS: per vertex alpha color can vary smoothly across the surface, doesn't have to be uniform.

- alright, I thought you maybe found the code somewhere :) sorry for that. Ehm...Glowing smokish Balgrog?!!! :D

- ok, I'll give it a shot.
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aquiefrog

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #325 on: October 18, 2007, 09:49:36 pm »
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[



DaBlade

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #326 on: October 19, 2007, 06:14:45 am »
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[




I can see you used the Easterling mask helm texture for it, cool. Looks good.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #327 on: October 19, 2007, 06:26:14 am »
Since it's apparently possible to make a banner appear to wave using shaders, I wonder what else we can monkey with that way?  Of course, the eventual dream of animated melee weapons (like flails and chain-type stuff) comes to mind ... although that may be far beyond this little trick.

Highlander

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #328 on: October 19, 2007, 06:35:32 am »
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

it IS possible, a guy at taleworlds made an alpha shaped shiny spear. I think he used multimesh.
Not even that anymore, I'm afraid.   :(
In .089x I think there is no more support for multi mesh weapons. The katana in native is now a single mesh and I tried to get a multi mesh as a weapon in game and it didn't work.

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #329 on: October 19, 2007, 06:48:39 am »
Ron: you are right. It is possible to program a rotating flail and chain, the difficult part is interaction between the object and the rest of the world, both ways. Without that interaction, it will look a little silly I'm afraid, like: rotate rotate rotate no matter what.

By "difficult" I mean "tricky in general, but 100% impossible if you can only control the shader and not the rest of the game code --- which is our case".

Interaction is "difficult" both ways, that is: make the chain react with the stuff it collides, make rotation of the chain influence whether something is collided or not.

(And this is all about chains, right? Also functionally: I hear that one main objective of chain-based weapons is make the stick hit on the opponent shield, make the chain rotate and hit guy behind the shield.)

Still, it could be attempted for, say, a chainsaw or something like that (not for TLD ;))
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 06:51:11 am by mtarini »