Author Topic: (old) TLD Help needed: Models and Voices  (Read 493976 times)

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2007, 05:10:15 pm »
WARGS!!!

Yoshi did incredible meshes for wolves, but as we know they are not, and are not supposed to be, wargs.

Since I was getting tired of mercilessy killing cute, wide-eyed puppies like this one:

   "Is your mother wearing a fur? Mine isn't anymore :_(  "

I retouched it into a less guilt-inspiring version:


   "Kill me! I'm evil! Kill me!"

Would that be an acceptable warg? Feel free to suggest, or directly re-edit it.

I tried rigging it as well (I'm a total 1st timer about rigging -- I did it by applying a very, very dirty trick and hoping for the best), BUT, I could not test it.
Likewise, I tried to make it so that the rider is in the right position, but I could not test that either.
Too difficult to get into a fight with wargs in my saved games.

If anybody feels like it, it would be useful if you would just replace the resource file with the new one (here) and the texture file (here) inside the respective TLD folders, run the game, fight with/against wargs  and see if it is any good. (warning: could be totally wrong -- also, make a backup). PS: sorry about keeping "yoshi" in the filename, it is just so that it is simple to replace files.

Also, it would be great if someone knowledgeable about M&B mount meshes could fix any errors that turns out to be there. I'm no expert about any of this.

Note: in the resource file, all the four types of wargs are copies of the same mesh. If it turn out to be working, I will differentiate them.

If anyone knows any better way to test them, let me know.
Meanwhile, here is other views:


Offline Ancientwanker

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2007, 05:21:57 pm »
Hey, that looks great mtarini. If the rig is messed up we can probably get Yoshi to re-rig it, as he's done that warg rig several times.  Ill test it out tommorrow if we dont have any other takers.

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #242 on: October 12, 2007, 06:07:17 pm »
Yes, if yoshi is clearly to one that can fix (if broken), if there is one!

small update: added a "furry textured" version (adaptation of Yoshiboy's, again).



Zipped file here (two textures + the resource file with models using either one -- just substitute with current files)
(It is just a new texture, so it works if the other warg does and viceversa.)

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #243 on: October 13, 2007, 01:16:57 am »
I like the hunched back and the evilness and all...but the flat nose just looks wrong. Like he ran really fast against a wall and forgot to stop. If he's to resemble anything dog related (even bears..), he needs a snout.
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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #244 on: October 13, 2007, 06:19:20 am »
It certainly looks more evil, but does it look more Wargish?

‘…the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named)’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 95.

‘…in the middle of the circle was a great grey wolf. He spoke to them in the dreadful language of the Wargs.’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 95.

‘Wolves are afraid of fire at all times…’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 97.

‘…and many of their own wolves were turning upon them and rending the dead and the wounded.’*

*’The Hobbit: The Clouds Burst’, p. 261.

‘...and a great pack of the dreadful Orcish wolf-riders, feared by horses. Behind them came two battalions of the fierce Uruks, heavily armed but trained to move at great speed for many miles.’*

*'Unfinished Tales: The Battles of the Fords of Isen', p. 463.

Wargs: ‘They were very swift and skilled in avoiding ordered men in close array, being used mostly to destroy isolated groups or to hunt down fugitives; but at need they would pass with reckless ferocity through any gaps in companies of horsemen, slashing at the bellies of the horses.’*

*'Unfinished Tales: The Battles of the Fords of Isen', p. 472-3.

(From 'The Scroll of Quotations')

I think it is clear that to Tolkien Wargs = wolves (only larger, more fierce, evil, intelligent). I personally really dislike the movie 'hyenas', and these look a little too much like those. Maybe Merlkir's suggestion of a snout will change that.

Offline Ron Losey

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #245 on: October 13, 2007, 06:47:07 am »
Well, the reality of a wolf (or coyote, or jackal, or hyena or whatever) is that they don't look particularly evil when just standing there looking stupid.  However, when they lower their heads, ruffle their fur, show teeth and attack, even the cutest little puppy turns into the devil pretty fast.  I've been attacked by a couple of "domestic" dogs, and I've been in the forest with wolves... but I've also known people who keep gray timber wolves as "domestic" dogs.  The same wolves that will make your blood run cold in a forest don't look like much when they're just standing there begging for table scraps.

The original wolves there looked like happy little puppies because they were not in a pose of teeth barred, eyes narrowed, head lowered, nose flared, attack posture.  They were just standing there like they were waiting to fetch your newspaper or something.

Replacing them with something that looks not even canine ... that may not be the solution.  The movies over-did the making of the wolves of Isengard into alien monsters.  Let's not copy that mistake.

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #246 on: October 13, 2007, 07:09:54 am »
well, I like all the changes except the flat head. I would have to see it move, but I think the hunched back gives a glimpse of that aggressive pose...
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Offline Ron Losey

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #247 on: October 13, 2007, 07:20:17 am »
well, I like all the changes except the flat head. I would have to see it move, but I think the hunched back gives a glimpse of that aggressive pose...

Well, yeah, lowered head is certainly a big part of that look.  Probably the most visible part at a distance.

Offline Triglav

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #248 on: October 13, 2007, 08:42:22 am »
Good job mtarini!

Though I think the wolf in the movie 300 looked pretty much what I imagined a warg to look like:



Malnourished with ribs showing, unkept nasty fur and a bony, protruding head.

So, what you've done is pretty close to this in posture. Just add a werewolf's head and you're done.

or this
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 08:45:08 am by Triglav »
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Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #249 on: October 13, 2007, 09:27:26 am »
I agree about the head, but I need a clarification: wolf or monster?

Are wargs just mundane wolves (only maybe bigger) or are they hideous monsters resembling wolves, that people would describe as (great) "wolves" for lack of a better word? I assumed the latter. After all, if they are wolves but they must be the size to ride them, then they already are unnatural monsters (thus, twisted) rather than just animals. I loved the movie version, actually, because it's in line with that: you could call it "wolf" if you had to refer to one, but it's not really (it's a lot uglier and evil looking than that). If fact, more acculturate people would call them differently: "wargs".

Still, I agree in that the head doesn't look right yet. I should be more wolf-like (looks almost like a reptilian now - or maybe a bear).

Is anybody already retouching it? If so then please go ahead! I can give it a try, but I don't want to replicate work.

Apoc

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #250 on: October 13, 2007, 09:39:51 am »
I would say that Tolkien rarely used one word for lack of a better one (he was after all a linguist, and 'vargr' is Old Norse for 'wolf') - if he used the word 'wolf' to describe wargs, that is probably the way he wanted them portrayed. Especially considering how many times he used the word.

Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #251 on: October 13, 2007, 09:50:09 am »
I mean to say: people in Tolkien book (the characters, not the author himself) used the expression "GREAT wolf" do describe a creature that looked like a bigger, twisted, unnatural, evil, version of a wolf. So different from a wolf that they have also a different name all for themselves ("warg").

What about this
   

Offline Merlkir

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #252 on: October 13, 2007, 09:59:49 am »
much better. But still, the shape of the snout makes it look more like a crocodile..a weird bear at best :(
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Offline Triglav

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #253 on: October 13, 2007, 10:03:10 am »
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Offline mtarini

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Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
« Reply #254 on: October 13, 2007, 10:12:23 am »
Then maybe a less bear-ish, more wolf-ish one, like this:

   

It occurred to me only now that it would maybe be nice if they where 80% wolves but 20% big rats.
BTW I made the tail a little rattesque (since version 1) to avoid it being nice looking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:

tried to make a little rat like face and failed. My old version looks like a rat already actually: .
Now I am undecided. The wolf version above ooks quite wolvish, but also too nice looking (like a good - if strong willed- wolf)?
Rat -version is more monstrous that that, which is good.

Any more suggestions?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 10:27:15 am by mtarini »