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Mount&Blade Expansion => Mod Graveyard => Schattenlander - Into The Darklands => Topic started by: Hellequin on January 14, 2007, 03:05:25 PM

Title: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on January 14, 2007, 03:05:25 PM
Schattenländer - Into the Darklands.

In 1992, Microprose made a computer RPG called Darklands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darklands_%28computer_game%29) which is a cult classic.  Set in the Holy Roman Empire of the 15th century, it's basically medieval Germany where everything the peasants believed is true.  It's an unbelievably deep, immersive look at the middle ages.  Its tagline: In medieval Germany, reality is more horrifying than fantasy.  Fans have entreated the company to release the source code for ages, to no avail.

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Current status: RELEASED.
Version 0.1d available from the M&B Repository here (http://www.mbrepository.com/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=7&lid=401).

Contains one major bonus over the originally announced 1.0 content... try and find the added companion.  Here's your hint: After you meet him the first time, look for him when pyrotechnics would be displayed to best effect.

This 0.1b release addressed a number of nonfatal bugs found by our early adopters of 0.1 (thanks, guys!), and some which just hadn't been squished before release.  It also adds some pleasant audio as you start the game.  The 0.1c finished the bugfixes on alchemy brewing and makes it possible to check your potions' ingredient requirements even if you can't currently manage a dose, bugfixes offensive potions other than the starting three, introduces functionality on the Ironarm and Quickmove family of potions, and changes the church bell sounds to shorter and quieter samples which are further quieted when you're resting.  The 0.1c2 release was identical to 0.1c except that the language folder, which is used to alter many small things about the game, and was supposed to be included right from the beginning, was now included.

The most recent release, 0.1d, adds the following features:
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Schattenländer aims to reproduce as much as possible of this amazing game in the form of an M&B mod.  We have high hopes; the game was essentially menu-driven, and we have access to the full text of all of its menus.  The art of the game is similarly available, as soon as Armagan and team implement the ability to associate a graphic with a menu.  And we have already finished implementing some of the elements of Darklands combat never before seen in a released M&B mod - see screenshots below!

The Schattenländer team (updated Jan15/07):
CodingSights and SoundsContent & Data
We're still recruiting!  Contact me by PM if you're interested.  A Subversion repository and versioning system, already in place, will mean that you never have to wait for access to the code, regardless of who's doing what at the time.  You don't even need to know how to code; many of our tasks (see below) require nothing other than a functioning brain and some good ol' gamers' patience.

We especially need a skilled modeler willing to undertake some challenging collaborations (Dragons! Wild Hunt!) and to be Schattenländer-focused.  I'm offering serious top billing if he (or she) succeeds... because Schattenländer is going all the way.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Into the Darklands
Post by: Hellequin on January 14, 2007, 03:08:40 PM
Stylish cities (credit to Maw for finding out that this was possible):
(http://www.hellequin.net/City_day_screenshot.jpg)

Provisional map:
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/duckandspackle/germany-really.jpg)

Fear the alchemists!
(http://www.hellequin.net/arabianfire.JPG)

(http://www.hellequin.net/thunderbolt.JPG)

(http://www.hellequin.net/breathofdeath.JPG)
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Into the Darklands
Post by: Hellequin on January 14, 2007, 03:55:08 PM
What's this all about, then?

Enormous Scope
In contrast to normal M&B, cities in Darklands feel huge.  Many quests, interactions, and even combat can occur before you ever leave your starting city.  We accomplish this the same way Darklands did: rather than walking from place to place in an M&B scene, you transition from one area of the city, from one shop to another, using a hierarchy of menus.  Once we get menu graphics, you'll see just how different these areas are from one another - whether you're in Cathedral Square or the Krafmarkt, down at the docks or looking for trouble in the slums.

It's possible that after implementation we may also choose to implement M&B scenes to represent some of the key streets.  We'll only do this if we feel that the M&B scenes successfully convey the same breadth and diversity that the menu texts do.

Ninety-two cities of varying size dot the map - if you've blown your local reputation in Bohemia, perhaps the Prussians won't mind - and a limitless set of castles, mines, satan-worshipping villages, ruins, hemitages, caves, and dragon-ravaged countryside lie before you.  Find unique and semi-unique locations like the prophetess, the witches' sabbath, Devil's Bridge and the fortress monastery of the Templars, while avoiding or dealing with a host of random encounters which will test every aspect of your skills - from blizzards and plague-ridden refugees, to cruel alchemists and the Wild Hunt.

Invoke 125 individually detailed saints, from Saint George the dragon-killer and Saint Michael (the archangel), to Saint Catherine the Astonishing and Saint Jude - patron saint of hopeless causes.  Brew sixty-six potions, from al-Razi's Noxious Aroma to the Smaragdinian Tablet's Breath of Death... if you can find, and afford, the rare reagents they require, and the even rarer secrets of their making.

Become a legend
You will journey with a tight-knit party of adventurers, not a small army of troops.  All of the possible NPCs you can recruit will be companions, able to train and be developed as you see fit, but your party will be severely limited to no more than a few trusted friends.  Battles will be small, by M&B standards, but the enemies will be tough.  A toggle from our Schattenländer-specific configuration menu will allow you to choose between a Standard difficulty and a Hard one.  Experienced veterans of M&B should, if we've done it right, experience a challenge even from the Hard setting, and even after their characters have matured considerably.

Your adventure will challenge all of your skills, from combat to tracking to haggling.  What a pity your party size will be too small to allow specialists in every area.  Do you neglect one approach entirely, or do you begin to generalize?  That'll be up to you.

There is no overt magic - at least, none that you (as god-fearing folk) can access.  But saintly intervention is very real, as is alchemy.  Prayers to a saint can help get you out of trouble, avoid a situation, gain access to a situation, heal your wounds, or boost your skills/stats as combat turns against you.  Alchemical potions can distract your opponents, harden your armour, mend your flesh, and even be thrown across the battlefield to set fire to your foes!  We strongly recommend, though do not require, that each party have at least a priest, an alchemist, or more commonly both.  You can choose to play one, maybe even both, roles, or you can recruit companions who fulfill those roles; the objective is to make either approach fun and competitive.

Your reputation will precede you, both locally and globally; rescue a caravan near Hamburg, and you'll see better treatment there, while driving off a plague of knockers from a mine near Leipzig may be told and retold across the breadth of the Empire.  But get caught sneaking into a banker's office at night - to retrieve records of his bastardy, so as to sway his politics as rebellion begins to foment - and you can end in fighting through crowds to rescue your companion off the executioner's block!

And when we've implemented all of that, we'll start adding new content, too. ;)

Radically changed system
Never level up again!  Instead, see your skills rise as you use them, or as you spend hard-earned pfennigs on the services of tutors.  Play through the most entertaining character creation mechanic ever implemented in an RPG, now successfully ported to M&B, but do so with care - after you start your adventure, only the rarest of circumstances will ever change your attributes again.

Make skill rolls using a hidden dice-pool mechanic, where you're never perfectly guaranteed success... nor ever absolutely guaranteed to fail.  Test the best speaker or most skilled surgeon amongst you... or the slowest runner, the noisiest walker.  Make smart decisions; if you fail to play to your strengths, life will only get harder.

Forget the M&B skill list, in favour of skills like Persuasion, Artifice, Scholarship, and Quick Learner.  Over half of the original skills now have new, and critically important, roles to play in your search for glory.  Think a former abbot, now fifty, has no role to play in a band of glorious heroes?  Think again.

In fact, if you come into Schattenländer with one thing on the tip of your tongue, make it that: Think again.

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The original game won the 1992 PC Special Achievement Award from Game Players Magazine, and is a classic (and still rewarding to play) to this day.  We hope to do justice to the original in an act of sincere homage.  Come help, or just wait and play.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Into the Darklands
Post by: Sir Mc Dugan on January 18, 2007, 01:18:52 PM
Hey! I really enjoyed playing Darlands!  :P
Please go on with this Mod and good luck!!  ;)
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Into the Darklands
Post by: saijonas on January 21, 2007, 05:54:11 AM
Just to pop my head in... The work has continued wonderfully, KUTGW.
Sorry I ghosted for a bit, but real life prevails and sleep wins every time over enjoyment.
I should be able to take (minor) assignments on and off over the next several weeks, send me something to do!
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Hellequin on January 22, 2007, 02:29:31 AM
If you're looking at this latest post - DON'T.  The release URL is up in the first post.  Go get it!
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Xawery on January 22, 2007, 03:12:49 AM
Huzzah, a release! I'm *theoretically* in no position to play right now, but what the hell :)

@Hellequin & the gang: do you want any feedback? You say that this release contains bugs you are aware of (obviously), so I wouldn't want to waste time telling you things you already know...
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: KON_Air on January 22, 2007, 04:03:41 AM
How do I mine for potions?
I don't get it.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Yoshiboy on January 22, 2007, 11:11:38 AM
I've played only a little but it looks like it has massive potential. Really nice job Hellequin! :)
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Nethros on January 23, 2007, 03:33:06 AM
It's cool, but I think the random encounters should be a little more frequent, like they were in Darklands.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: jeansberg on January 23, 2007, 03:51:05 AM
More frequent? I seem to encounter at least two of them every time I travel between two cities.

@Hellequin

I don't remember the details anymore, but I'll see if I can recreate it.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Raz on January 23, 2007, 06:00:12 AM
I never played the original, but I have to say I have high anticipations of this! *downloading*
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1 Alpha RELEASED
Post by: stoned_dude on January 23, 2007, 09:53:24 AM
Congrats on the alpha release! i'm very pleased to see a good mod, with many new and interesting features, and with many more to come!
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Hellequin on January 24, 2007, 03:59:37 AM
A correction to the above - a small bug in the offensive potions other than the versions you started with may have caused them to blow up in your face, it wasn't necessarily just the scatter I discussed in the above post.  Fixed now, in...

Version 0.1c now up in the Repository.

Sorry for the quick updates, guys; the bugfix to brewing in 0.1b turned out to not properly trigger its code, so a 0.1c build was necessary to fix that and make it fully accessible.  I also took advantage of that to finish off the saints-enhancements fix, tone down the church bells, and give stats to the Ironarm and Quickmove families of potions (they, plus the offensive potions, are all that have functionality at this time).  Reagents and potions are also a lot less common at the ordinary merchant's store, now, though he's still got a few of each.

Same not-quite-savegame-compatible warning as for 0.1b, I'm afraid.  The complexity of Schattenlander means that it has, among other things, a lot of strings stored at game start (such as the description strings of potions).  Adding or removing even a single string earlier in the code than those will change their numbering and mean that your savegame remembers the wrong description string for all your potions, saints, etc.  I may try and put in some "filler" strings at the end of each strings file, so that when I have to add a new string I can remove one of those and preserve save-compatibility.  The release where I first implement this won't be backward-compatible to previous releases, but most small changes afterward will be compatible back to that one.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Garth on January 28, 2007, 01:35:58 AM
And just to whet some appetites... the upcoming 0.1d release, hopefully by the end of this weekend if this $#@! bug dies and I get enough time tomorrow, contains a pretty massive dose of new content in terms of the potions and saints.  You used to only have three potion classes, all of them in-combat types.  Look forward to more than a dozen, including more thrown potions and many noncombat ones, and a similar increase in the number of saints' blessings which actually work...

- Hellequin

*Drools inarticulately*
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c Alpha RELEASED
Post by: Dryvus on January 28, 2007, 06:12:16 PM
This mod kicks ass, it's a great deal of fun to do some in-town fighting by the wharves. I've only played one session last night, and it's been in my head at work all day. Can't wait to see the map with 92 towns on it. Will they be added in the existing map space or will the map be expanded at all to accomodate them?
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c2 - Language Pack Added
Post by: Hellequin on February 08, 2007, 10:54:11 AM
Jeansberg, and others - yeah, I've been pretty quiet.  Mix of RL demands and of coding issues of a couple of kinds; I should be able to get a new release out soon, though.  I delayed the last interim-release because I was this close to having weapon and armour enhancements working.

Unfortunately, the solution I implemented turned out to suck, in actual play.  "Blessed" and "Enhanced" done as imods worked excellently... except for the fact that every time I wanted to detect the imod on one of the player's items, I could only do so by removing it from their inventory and returning it... thus unequipping it.  So if I wanted to check if this is the broadsword whose blessing is scheduled to expire, suddenly it was no longer at the ready.  Likewise if I wanted to suppress the item whilst you talked to a shopkeeper (so you can't sell blessed items for big money), it came back unequipped.  Basically the more I completed the code, the more those shortcomings became apparent.

So we're going to switch back to the simpler approach, already in place for other types of item enhancement (trueflight, etc), where the blessed item is a different item, and imods just do what imods did before.  Disappointing, because other than the above shortcomings the other system was really neat, but so be it.  I'm just having to work up to it.

As a plus, however, the code for 0.1d will include the following features:

I hope to be able to release that by about the end of the coming weekend.  It's mostly ready, but several of the above need debugging, and the rewriting of some enhancements will be slow, annoying work.  Once I'm past that, though, we should be off and running again.

I've also implemented .smd support for Blender, as some of you may have seen, which is simply huge; Blender's tools for (for example) rigging are kick-ass.  Here's my commitment for Schattenländer version 0.2:  We will have as many human-based encounters implemented as possible; we will have at least one nonhuman encounter (tatzelwurm, gargoyle, demon, and wolf are all likely candidates for which I have strategies already sketched out).  We may also have on-field orders to use potions/saints operational by that time.

There's also a massive surprise getting set up for all of you, once we hit the milestone of Schattenländer version 0.5.  The only hint I'll give you is that you'd better practice up your Schattenländer skills; you'll have good cause to want 'em.

Still looking for skilled modelers, and dedicated sequencers... if you want to chip in, PM me and ask how.

Cheers!
- Hellequin
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c2 - Language Pack Added
Post by: Winter on February 09, 2007, 09:51:08 AM
Jeansberg, and others - yeah, I've been pretty quiet.  Mix of RL demands and of coding issues of a couple of kinds; I should be able to get a new release out soon, though.  I delayed the last interim-release because I was this close to having weapon and armour enhancements working.

Unfortunately, the solution I implemented turned out to suck, in actual play.  "Blessed" and "Enhanced" done as imods worked excellently... except for the fact that every time I wanted to detect the imod on one of the player's items, I could only do so by removing it from their inventory and returning it... thus unequipping it.  So if I wanted to check if this is the broadsword whose blessing is scheduled to expire, suddenly it was no longer at the ready.  Likewise if I wanted to suppress the item whilst you talked to a shopkeeper (so you can't sell blessed items for big money), it came back unequipped.  Basically the more I completed the code, the more those shortcomings became apparent.

So we're going to switch back to the simpler approach, already in place for other types of item enhancement (trueflight, etc), where the blessed item is a different item, and imods just do what imods did before.  Disappointing, because other than the above shortcomings the other system was really neat, but so be it.  I'm just having to work up to it.

I've been wishing for a command to equip an item for ages. Hopefully in the next version of M&B; it should certainly be possible for Armagan to code it now that we can get the contents of inventory slots. Preferably with a complimentary add_item command that supports item modifiers and outputs the new item's inventory slot to reg0.

Just remind him to do this in the Module System suggestions thread on Taleworlds. ;)

Maverickly,
Winter
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c2 - Language Pack Added
Post by: Hellequin on February 09, 2007, 12:52:49 PM
Hai, ja, oui.

Me too; I just haven't had it made quite as explicit as this, where I started out thinking it would be a minor issue only, and it turned out to pop its head up time after time as I worked through the interaction of this bit with the rest of the code.

However, the fix is coded now; certes, I'll poke Armagan about it, but one of my principles here has been that I'm not going to "shelve" something to wait for a feature (custom skeletons, equip_item, etc) unless it's absolutely necessary.  Partly this is because usually I enjoy working within strange constraints.  I'm actually looking forward to coding a flying demon under the constraint of "no nonhuman/nonhorse skeletons", for instance, even though it would be way easier to do it with real control over the skeleton and animations.

Cross your fingers, folks; with luck, version 0.1d will be ready to upload tonight.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1c2 - Language Pack Added
Post by: Cartread on February 10, 2007, 01:51:07 AM
The potions are neat of course.  I also like the vastly changed character developement.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Hellequin on February 10, 2007, 03:10:06 AM
Glad you like it!  Personally I like the flexibility it gives me, all kinds of little touches.  For instance, each hero's Healing skill now has a chance to go up based on how wounded all of the other members of the party had been, during combat.  Another example, using blunt weapons counts as just a little more Virtuous than using killing weapons.

Speaking of which... announcement:  Version 0.1d has been released.

'Nuff said - go get it! (http://www.mbrepository.com/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=7&lid=401)
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: KON_Air on February 10, 2007, 04:15:50 AM
How about narrowing Blessed items to Blessable unique items? For example player gets "Saintly Long Sword", gets it blessed it becomes "Saint X's Blessed Sword" when blessing expires item is removed and replaced with "Saintly Long Sword"? Kinda kills the idea but...
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Merentha on February 14, 2007, 02:11:41 AM
Hellequin, you really are a tease.   :P

That said, I'm excited to see rapid progress continually made on this oft-discussed, yet never seriously pursued, idea. 
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Hellequin on February 14, 2007, 10:47:52 AM
Jeansberg - best way would be like this.  First do a normal install of 0.1d using the installer, into the same directory that your repository's working copy lives (PM me if you need help with this part).  Then update your local copy from the project repository; this should include a subdirectory labeled Module_system.  Inside that there's a file named Build Module.bat.  Run that; if it spawns errors you may need to run it again now that it's built its ID lists on your machine (they're not versioned as they're basically derived files, not source).  Then run Schattenlander.

And, Merentha... what better way to keep people wondering? ;)  And thanks.  Out of curiosity, have you tried the mod (esp. the most recent release)?  What bits did you think worked, what bits don't yet feel right, what's jarring, what's unfinished, what's cool?   Inquiring developers want to know...
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: blankshield on February 15, 2007, 07:02:05 PM
Sweet.  So I can take it as read that my priorities for what encounter to sequence next have shifted?

:)

Couple bugs I noted with it, that I'm sure you're aware of; give me a shout if you want to discuss.

James
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Hellequin on February 18, 2007, 10:05:04 PM
Hah!

Now functional and will be in the next release: you can prepare orders (such as "quaff Sina's New Wind on my order" or "pray to St. Lazarus for Anya when she's badly wounded") ahead of time, and activate them (or have them activate as conditions warrant).

Tested to a limited extent thus far, and lookin' good.  I'm sure there are a few bugs in it yet, and much auxiliary code yet to be written (for instance getting a list of existing preset orders; deleting orders; dealing with the departure of a party member; etc), but by the next release it should be pretty solid. This is just the initial announcement that yes, it's in, and it works.

I also intend to include a more in-depth system by which you can gradually construct such an order, piece by piece (Anya... invoke... St. Benedict... for Franz), in a related mode to that which you use to trigger the presets.  It won't be nearly as swift to use, but it should be sufficiently comprehensive that it'll be usable anytime you really need it.  This is actually not going to be all that much more complex to write than what I've got now, it's just an extrapolation of the existing setup.

The "preptime" system is now officially ancient history.  Everything it could do, can now be done on the battlefield using this interface.

- Hellequin
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Merentha on February 19, 2007, 10:06:07 AM
Congratulations on the subforum, Hellequin.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Scion on February 19, 2007, 10:12:41 AM
Congrats, well deserved.
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: nihilocrat on February 19, 2007, 02:26:39 PM
I'm not sure if you really need it, but I just wanted to offer my abilities in German (I'm practically fluent after studying abroad two semesters in Munich) and knowledge of Medieval German mythology (but I figure Darklands has that covered, right?) to the project. I'm just getting started with M&B and I'm amazed that such a relatively obscure game has such a huge and active modding community. When I get back home today I'm going to try out this mod as well as Onin no Ran.

I really love Darklands and just about any game that tries to have a quasi-realistic medieval setting. I generally think real history is a lot more fascinating than fantasy. Darklands really got medieval German folklore dead on: it was generally all about really horrible monsters doing really horrible things to people (who also might be horrible and be getting what's coming to them).
Title: Re: Schattenländer - Version 0.1d released (Feb10/07)
Post by: Hellequin on February 19, 2007, 02:35:19 PM
Nihilocrat - thanks!  The original game was spot on in many ways, but in others (for instance the structure of its quests) it was either brilliant (the Dragon quest, the villages-sabbath-monastery chain) or pathetic (the various random fetch-and-carry quests).  So the random quests are one area where I intend to recapitulate-but-improve, and this is definitely able to be informed by a good feel for the mythology of the period.

I'd suggest you pick up the mod and get a feel for it first.  Once you've played the mod for a while, if you're still interested in participating, c'mon back and we'll for sure find something you can contribute - whether that be within our focus area (recapitulate first) or outside it (work on a more classical set of random quests, perhaps), whether it's within your core expertise or within the category of "requires no special skills", I'm sure that no interested soul will go away unable to help out.  Hell, maybe you'll decide you'd like to actually do a German port of the mod; I'd happily support that, even if I hardly speak three words of the language myself.
Title: Feature announcements
Post by: Hellequin on February 21, 2007, 11:55:32 AM
Further announcement:

The orders system is now confirmed functional for both saints and potions (quaffed only - no applying lotions or blade oils during battle!).

Moreover, the 'construct orders' system is also done and tested.  Discover that you need fire resistance you hadn't planned for?  Hit the I key until you're in Construct Orders mode, then hit the Tab key to start building an order.  In this example:

Tab - "Take action..." (AKA "Order to self:")
Tab - "Order to Anya..."
Wait 3s - "Order to Anya..."
Tab - "Order to Anya: quaff..."
Wait 3s - "Order to Anya: quaff..."
Tab - "Order to Anya: quaff Sina's New-Wind..."
Tab - "Order to Anya: quaff Jabir's Firewall..."
Tab (oops) - "Order to Anya: quaff Hayyan's Quickmove..."
Tab - "No order." (Ran out of potions Anya has on hand.)
Tab - "Order to Anya: quaff Sina's New-Wind..."
Tab - "Order to Anya: quaff Jabir's Firewall..."
Wait 3s - "Ordering Anya: quaff Jabir's Firewall."
Two seconds later (the time it takes to get out a potion you've got ready to hand), you hear a drinking sound, and suddenly you're seeing messages like "Anya has fully resisted 5 fire damage".  Yay!

If you know your potions on hand (and/or your saints studied) well enough to know what you're looking for, this process is reasonably quick in play.  Not recommended for in the thick of combat... but that's realistic, innit?  And if you don't know your saints well enough, well, maybe this is the one you're looking for... it's worth a shot. ;)

I'm now quite satisfied that you can access any of your alchemy or prayers as freely as can be called for.  Still to be coded on this subsystem:
Also, thanks to Blankshield's help with the sequencing process, another random encounter (my personal favorite, the catch-22 "Pardoner" encounter) is now implemented.  Remember, even if he's an asshole who's trying to kill you, it's sacrilege to beat up the clergy.

Everybody looking forward to v0.2 yet?

- Hellequin
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Fisheye on February 21, 2007, 08:40:51 PM
Have you considered a "start_mission_conversation" with yourself in the middle of combat for the more sophisticated orders?
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on February 21, 2007, 10:05:37 PM
Does that work in a combat scene?  I'd assumed it wouldn't, and I think I've (not deliberately) tried that at one point, when working on Franz's scene.

I'd be pleased to be wrong, although the interface I've got right now works just fine.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on February 21, 2007, 10:22:37 PM
"What effects (blessings, potions, etc) am I under?" dialogue also added to the mod.  Now you can actually figure out if that Ironarm has worn off yet, without having to memorize your original stats.

That was a surprisingly dificult pain in the arse.  Had to actually add strings for everything from the word "Streetwise" and the phrase "One-handed weapons" to things like "May grant a miraculous longsword to the needy".  Even the ones which can't actually be in place on your character for any duration (like an instantaneous Heal), there needed to be some new string in their position in the list, so there was no savings.  And the overall string parsing was extremely annoying to get right; chains of phrases like "X points from a saint's blessing, Y points from potions, etc" where you only want to display the parts that actually apply?  Pain.

Hope you guys appreciate it.  More annoying string-parsing to come as I add in display-dialogue for your hidden stats (Virtue, etc), your saints, and your potions, so you can look at the details without having to actually pray or brew.  Eventually it'll all be as smooth as silk, promise.

- Hellequin
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Fisheye on February 22, 2007, 08:42:33 AM
Does that work in a combat scene?  I'd assumed it wouldn't, and I think I've (not deliberately) tried that at one point, when working on Franz's scene.

I'd be pleased to be wrong, although the interface I've got right now works just fine.

Ask Winter - there's a scene in the Storymod castle attack where you get to talk to a chef, he's made it work somehow.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Nate on February 22, 2007, 11:54:25 PM
Excellent work.

I have had some experience with the original Darklands, it was a fantastic game. This mod gives Mount&Blade some much needed depth in many aspects. Using the setting and feel of Darklands is exactly the direction I would have liked to see the game go. Developing what could very well turn into a “spiritual successor” of the original would please so many fans like myself. Keep up the great work. I’ll give some input when I have a chance to play further.

- Nate
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: kencube on February 24, 2007, 09:19:55 PM
Good works. Although it's still rough, it has quite a different experience from the original M&B. It feels more like playing a RPG. Keep on going guys. :)

By the way, I'm translating this mod into Chinese, hope more players can have the chance to play great mods. :D
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on February 24, 2007, 09:58:29 PM
Awesome!

Please feel free to contact me (I'll send email address by PM if desired) if you want to clarify anything for the translation, ask about an interpretation, etc. - I just made the same offer to the guys on the German forum on Taleworlds.

Basically, I'll bend over backward to assist with any such project.  Just let me know!

- Hellequin
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Lectus on February 25, 2007, 12:14:59 AM
Darklands' character generator was that game's best feature in my opinion.  I'd spend tons of time just making up new parties, and filling in the blanks left by the twists and turns in their backstories.  It's awesome that you've managed to bring that kind of character generation to Mount and Blade.  And for such an early version, you've already managed to capture a good deal of the feel of Darklands.  I can't wait to see what the mod will be like if Armagan allows you to put graphics to particular menus.  I'm willing to bet that if this Mod gets finished, it'll not only emulate darklands, it'll outshine it.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on February 27, 2007, 11:33:56 AM
Woo-hoo!

Many kudos to Ronin47 over on Taleworlds for pointing me at this; I'd looked for it back in December when I was starting this mod (can you believe that Schattenlander is still not three months old?), and it wasn't available for love or money, but early this month that changed without me noticing...

The Darklands clue book is now available online.  A feller named UK_John from the Darklands yahoo group was kind enough to post it on replacementdocs.com, and although I won't post the link because of possible (if incredibly unlikely) legal and copyright issues, if you go there and search for Darklands you'll find it.

This has the city contents, the saints' blessings, the math on combat, the professions' prerequisites (including the last details I wasn't able to pin down), and so on and so forth, in wonderful glorious mod-enabling endless detail.  Honestly I don't recommend it to those who merely intend to play Schattenlander; not only is it full of spoilers, which are no fun, but those spoilers will not necessarily be accurate, which is even less fun.  So if your interest is just in playing the mod, resist the temptation; it really will make Schattenlander less fun for you.  But for me, and the rest of the team, it's a resource made of diamonds coated with pure gold.

Woot!
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 01, 2007, 08:14:23 PM
Well, I was wondering if we'd manage it, but we just did.

Schattenländer has just passed 4000 downloads before it was three months old.  That's cool.

Work continues in the background, slowed by RL; still no promises on a v0.2 release date, sorry, I haven't even completely decided which features will end up in that release.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: bryce on March 02, 2007, 07:28:39 PM
Thankd for the manual link.  I have played darklands so many times but never read the cluebook (or even seen it for sale).
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Fisheye on March 02, 2007, 08:43:58 PM
Blessed St. Cluebook has changed my life with his miracles.

I used to use 20yr olds... now I use 25 yr olds. Yeah, I needed the cluebook to tell me that there are no adverse effects from being 25... it's either not obvious or I'm a dumbass, take your pick.

I used to favor 2-handed swords... now I realise a lot of the tougher badguys have armor 4 or more, and quality doesn't improve penetration, and non-penetrating hits do jack shit. Now it's totally military hammers + shield all the way (I hate swapping weapons).




Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: bryce on March 03, 2007, 03:00:30 AM
Blessed St. Cluebook has changed my life with his miracles.

I used to use 20yr olds... now I use 25 yr olds. Yeah, I needed the cluebook to tell me that there are no adverse effects from being 25... it's either not obvious or I'm a dumbass, take your pick.

I used to favor 2-handed swords... now I realise a lot of the tougher badguys have armor 4 or more, and quality doesn't improve penetration, and non-penetrating hits do jack shit. Now it's totally military hammers + shield all the way (I hate swapping weapons).






:lol:

Actually, it is better to use 35 and 40 year olds for most things.  For a virtuous character a hermit that is 40-45 years old will have awesome strength combined with a really high virtue and he can learn stuff like religion later after you kill a couple of raubritter.

The one I thought was interesting was to see that being a night is actually a very good option.  I always normally play as rural commoners but I guess nobles are good for something after all.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 04, 2007, 04:36:18 PM
Bringing us back on-topic a little...

Maw's trick works, and the old illustrations look excellent in this context.  Turns out a simple layer mix with the original background gives very clean blends; this should make it much, much easier for us to process the graphics into the mod, as well as lookin' damn sharp.

(http://www.hellequin.net/City_day_screenshot.jpg)

Also works independent of system resolution, something I was worried about for a bit there.

We have some awesome stuff on the way for v0.2, guys; that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Garth on March 04, 2007, 05:14:00 PM
 :shock:


Is it just me or is that perfect?
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 04, 2007, 06:24:49 PM
It's just you.  It gets better than that. ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: bryce on March 05, 2007, 10:24:46 AM
Bringing us back on-topic a little...

Maw's trick works, and the old illustrations look excellent in this context.  Turns out a simple layer mix with the original background gives very clean blends; this should make it much, much easier for us to process the graphics into the mod, as well as lookin' damn sharp.

(http://www.hellequin.net/City_day_screenshot.jpg)

Also works independent of system resolution, something I was worried about for a bit there.

We have some awesome stuff on the way for v0.2, guys; that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That looks pefect to me, as well.

I have been playing around with the same feature for AoA and put in about 15 custom menus I whipped up in photoshop and it is astounding that it looks SO much better.  I don't think the full effect is something you can realize just by looking at a screenshot.  It has to be experienced.

Since you have all the in-game artwork to draw from, it should also be very easy to redo the styles of the buttons and popups and such, and maybe make new fonts as well.  The new .808 look and feel, simply put, is crap.  The darklands one, of course, was very good and in addition there is the nostalgia/faithfulness to the original factor.  I haven't seen any mods do this (except AoA will be doing it), but it's something easy to do and desperately needed so I hope you (and other mods) will do it.  Well, not necessarily you in specific.  Anyone with photoshop who is reasonably familiar with it who has the original art should be able to whip something together in an afternoon....

Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 05, 2007, 11:52:40 AM
I don't want to entirely recreate the interface elements from the original game, but yes - we're working on the interface right now, in much more than simply adding pretty pictures.  I won't say anything more about that until it's closer to ready, though; safe to say, I think it'll be an improvement (for this look and feel) over both the original Darklands and over M&B.
Title: Wow
Post by: Olaviusan on March 10, 2007, 03:05:06 PM
Well, the subject pretty much speaks for itself. Excellent mod, with unparallelled depth.

I would be happy to contribute in any way - if there is anything I could do that is. Not especially skilled in programming or anything similar though, but I'm willing to lend a hand if it's needed.

-- Olav
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Arcane on March 10, 2007, 07:36:57 PM
This is an great mod especially this isn't even close to being finished its amazing to me (I'm not a programmer) that you were able to override many of M&B's original interface in favor of this stat raise by use system and the interesting char creation process i look forward to play this mod as more shops are added and more bugs are hammered out
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Nethoras on March 26, 2007, 06:23:21 PM
holy crap, how'd you get area damage and watnot to work?

EDIT "very carefully" very smooth, i'm assuming this is all a well guarded secret, and/or it takes like 5 years to explain...
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 27, 2007, 04:53:15 PM
Very carefully. ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Ron Losey on March 27, 2007, 04:57:56 PM
Very carefully. ;)

That was a good response ... I may have to start using that one.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 28, 2007, 10:22:43 AM
Nethoras - actually it's not all that bad, were I to decide to explain it publically.  Basically all I did initially was read through module_operations.py with an eye to what functions might be useful to such a thing, experiment with them until I understood how they worked, and then started chaining 'em together.

There are actually some style elements I'm quite proud of, hiding under the hood and not hugely apparent.  For instance, the area damage gets inflicted to the target nearest to the center of the blast first, and then works its way outward.  Since it's all basically instantaneous the only visible outcome of this is to set the order of the "burnt for X" messages.  There are also some hidden reasons why I needed this as well.  But this was actually a noticeable additional complexity - it would have been much easier to leave it affecting them in order of agentID, not in order of range, I have to do an additional layer of looping for this refinement.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Merentha on March 28, 2007, 10:45:03 AM
There are actually some style elements I'm quite proud of, hiding under the hood and not hugely apparent.  For instance, the area damage gets inflicted to the target nearest to the center of the blast first, and then works its way outward.  Since it's all basically instantaneous the only visible outcome of this is to set the order of the "burnt for X" messages.  There are also some hidden reasons why I needed this as well.  But this was actually a noticeable additional complexity - it would have been much easier to leave it affecting them in order of agentID, not in order of range, I have to do an additional layer of looping for this refinement.
And this is why it seems that practically everyone is willing to trade models and textures for your code.   ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Hellequin on March 29, 2007, 12:22:53 PM
Except that everybody talks a good game, but nobody's put up yet.  We'll see if they really want it that badly...
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Kruniac on April 06, 2007, 01:25:02 AM
I crapped myself when I saw this mod. Darklands is one of the most enjoyable RPGs - ever.

I STILL play the thing, actually :)

Thanks for the mod, guys.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Blademaster on April 10, 2007, 03:14:51 PM
I crapped myself when I saw this mod. Darklands is one of the most enjoyable RPGs - ever.

I STILL play the thing, actually :)

Thanks for the mod, guys.

same here. if youneed help with anything as far as info on the game and medieval history i would be happy to help!

also: the deteriation system is kind of odd. i put on some stuff after a battle and it degraded. and the stuff degrades WAY to fast for anyones good.

furthermore: you can see most of the castles and caves and small villiages on the map instead of a random encounter, although currently the formentioned is not implemented (please implement!)

other than that good luck and good job, i expect this mod to explode into something even to rival 1066!
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: LionNinja on April 29, 2007, 06:20:19 AM
I must say if M&B ever reaches multiplayer, this will most likely be the biggest mod for it, good job guys i'm going to enjoy this later on  :D
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: ebak on August 29, 2007, 01:39:09 PM
I really hope this mod pushes through... I have been waiting for decades for a remake of Darklands...
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Servitor on November 27, 2007, 06:39:11 AM
It's dead, Last post before yours in this tread was in April.
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: almost normal on April 02, 2010, 03:18:19 PM
I only recently discovered Mount and Blade, and was at first excited at the prospect of a Darklands mod, since I love that game too.  However, I had to download an old version of Mount and Blade to even play it, and I am curious if anyone out there is interested in updating this mod, and taking up where the original modders left off.  I am not much of a programmer myself, just an interested party.  I'm not in love with Warband, but even if the end product ended up being for that instead of Mount and Blade, that would be okay.
The mod already made is a good start.  Is there anyone out there who still likes this idea?  Please say yes!
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: Geroj on April 21, 2010, 01:38:14 PM
I only recently discovered Mount and Blade, and was at first excited at the prospect of a Darklands mod, since I love that game too.  However, I had to download an old version of Mount and Blade to even play it, and I am curious if anyone out there is interested in updating this mod, and taking up where the original modders left off.  I am not much of a programmer myself, just an interested party.  I'm not in love with Warband, but even if the end product ended up being for that instead of Mount and Blade, that would be okay.
The mod already made is a good start.  Is there anyone out there who still likes this idea?  Please say yes!

darklands is very good game i am interested in this too but i am no coder only modeler
Title: Re: Welcome to Schattenländer! (Start Here)
Post by: MrRenderwahn on October 21, 2011, 06:04:00 AM
Hey anybody left here? I loved Darklands and Mount & Blade too. So guess what! I'd like to mod! :)

But this Schattenlander_01d.exe is only 14 MB of size? This cant be sufficient for a complete Mod can it? Because on my Mount & Blade it keeps on crashing. besides there are no files inserted??? Music is only the Inn Thme and Textures are about 20... where can I download the Rest of the Darklands Mod for M&B????

Lookin forward to your help