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Mount&Blade Expansion => The Last Days => Topic started by: pagan on January 22, 2012, 10:23:32 PM

Title: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 22, 2012, 10:23:32 PM
Howdy all

OK, i have decided to make this thread as a means to connect with the people, discuss the music, post updates and answer questions.

About The Soundtrack

Well, to be honest, i don't even know where to begin. But i will start with clarifications.

1: creating music for middle-earth has always been a dream for me, i would have eventually set upon doing it, for myself if nothing else, but, i am forever grateful for the guys in gifting me with this opportunity. I truly hope i have done this game justice, and provide the players with the enjoyment desired.
2: I am aware (since quite a few muso friends have made it quite clear) that i am not all together sane in attempting this. I am well aware of the brilliance of Howard Shore's work in the films, i have studied it, and listen to it religiously. And i know my work will be compared with his, fair or not. While i attempted as best as i could, given my means, to preserve the films very recognisable tonal pallet, i did not set out to recreate the films music, but rather my own version of middle earth using the elements of Mr Shore's work that i felt was now set in middle-earth music stone. Did i achieve in reality what i heard in my head, to be blunt, NO, for many reasons, but the main thing is, i came as close as i believe i could and in the end i am proud of it. I do feel that i have achieved something, if only a personal goal. It makes me very happy to have done so.
3:My main focus was on ambience. The music is meant to be part of the game, the 3rd tier part as i often say. first is the game play, the direct character and his actions, 2nd teir is the sound fx, be they character sounds, or the sounds of the city, village, battle, then comes the soundtrack, filling in the gaps, bringing it all together. My reasoning here was, that because TLD is a very long game, constant bombast would grow very annoying after a time. Thus the music has 3 levels of bombast. lowest and least is on the map. then towns in 2nd place.  and third in battle where it is appropriate. However even this is still slightly ambient as i chose to keep its level low. There is still the odd "look at me" map music to break it up, as well as low key battle music. Basically there is method to my madness. If only my shrink would listen.

Brief Overview of Soundtrack
There are moments very reminiscent of the films, and others completely different. I have written music for factions that were not even mentioned in the films let alone had a musical theme. Factions like Bardings, Beornings, Haradim, Rhun and Khand and so on. Naturally with all things TLD, we looked to Tolkien words, and to our own interpretation of those words. But for me on a personal level, i used Merlkirs Concept art, and in game design, the look and feel.

Some examples of musical direction

Example 1: Elves - An example of following Mr Shore and the films cues would be for the elven factions. The exotic, Eastern Euro, Middle-East melodic mix painted a very lovely picture that i felt fit perfectly. Thus i didn't wish to reinvent the wheel, but used it to make a wagon. Nothing more needs be said.

Example 2: Dwarves - An example of using the films and yet coming from another direction is with the Dwarves, in particular Erebor. In the films, Moria was a dreadfull place, underscored by a grim all male choir. Erebor is not grim however, it is glorious, it is a symbol of true dwarven staying power and beauty.  Thus i stuck with the all male choir, however, i used melodic direction from the exotic elves. Since this music is Representative of the ancient and wise, songs from a time before man, the same should be true also for the Dwarves, Thus, an all male choir, Tenors, singing a powerful lament, that would not feel out of place in lothlorien were females to sing it.

Example 3: Harad - The music for Harad is inspired purely from the writing of Tolkien and nothing from the films. There is a passage where Sam speaks of the Haradrim, if you have read the books you will know it, the direct quote eludes me word for word. But it is a very honest look at the enemy. Thus i wished to give them a human feel. A sorrowful duduk tells the tale of how these proud warriors have found themselves so far from home, fighting along side the inhuman Orc.

Thus you can see that the broad spectrum of film music to nothing like film music was used to create the TLD Soundtrack. I hope this clears some confusion up, if not now, then once the music is heard in game.

Feel free to comment or ask questions regarding music once released, be they the methods or why We or I chose a specific style or route in the broad or faction specific scope of the music. I'll most likely use the reserved post to paste the questions and answers there for others to find them easily.

Thanks again.
Vlad (Pagan) Zivanovic
Title: Re: TLD Soundtrack Thread
Post by: pagan on January 22, 2012, 10:24:55 PM
Question Hall of Fame

1 - Gaxleep (asked before release)

Question = I would ask if it were possible to change the music depending on the area in which you enter. The game sees you and you notice that you are entering an area on the main map, would be nice if there was a music appropriate to the population of a certain area when you enter it.

Answer= This was our intention. As an example i will use the native M&B game. When wondering the map in native, music would begin while you were in Swadia for example, and thus it would play out, regardles of you entering towns or moving through Nord lands. When finished, the music would then play a track appropriate for this new area. This system would not work very well for TLD. An example of our soundtrack in this system would be, you are in Mordor, Mordor music begins. You then travel through Gondor, Rohan, Lothlorian, all the while Mordor theme is playing. Music ends with player in Lothlorian, and thus Lothlorian Music begins....just in time for you to move off elsewere... not good.
          TLD soundtrack while on map, is made up of many short map tracks, that will play depending on where you are, they are only about 30seconds to a minute long, purely ambient, this ensures the player is not bombarded with constant music, nor is the world silent. If music is playing as you enter a town or location, the map track will fade, and the town or location music will begin, until you leave, and the system repeats, the music will also know if it is day or night. A moving Soundtrack that follows the player around. Factions have anywhere from between 2 to 6-7map tracks each, roughly dependent on their territory size/amount of towns. There are also about a dozen neutral map tracks that are middle-earth rather then faction specific, same for night time, thus ensuring variety even if you tarry for a long time in the same faction territory, rather then same track repeating.
          There are only two exceptions to this rule. A day-time track called 'Over the Misty Mountains' and the night-time 'Nightfall On The Anduin' which are full tracks, they will however still fade out if entering a location.



Plan for fixing missing music

Battle music for Mordor, Isengard, Dwarves, Beornings, Dunland and Khand are missing. Im sorry but i wasnt happy with my work and will try again. These factions will use appropriate music from another faction for now. Dwarves and Beornings use Dale, Mordor and Isengard use neutral Orc, Dunland use Corsair and Khand use Rhun.
(They all have their own battle music now!

Within next couple weeks i will have them finished then i will upload them here to this thread. All you need to do is download the track and place it in TLD music folder. The coding will have been done already. This way you wont need to wait on another patch to update your soundtrack.

IMPORTANT NOTE: For those with less MEM having crash issues even with this hotfix, http://www.gamefront.com/files/21265447/TLD_3.1_hotfix_1.7z here is something you can try. Converting the mp3's to WAV files, so there is no decompression. WARNING: the music folder will increase to 1.4 gig or there abouts, so if you don't care about the large footprint, you can try this.

Download this converter http://download.cnet.com/Free-MP3-WMA-OGG-Converter/3000-2140_4-10793572.html it is free, works well. If you don't already have one.

1- create a folder called 'Music', within this folder make 2 folders. one called 'Battle' the other called 'Day-Night-Map'.
2- Start the converter, click the add button and point it toward your Modules/TLD_3.1/music folder. select all the mp3's in the music folder (not the other 2 folders just the music)
3- Convert them to .WAV format, point the .WAV files to be put into the 'Music' folder you made. Follow this procedure with the 'Battle' and 'Day-Night-Map folders. Remember the new music folder with .WAV files must match the TLD_3.1 music folder exactly.
4- Download this edited Music.txt file http://www.gamefront.com/files/21276582/musictxt.rar
and replace the one in your mod folder.
5- Now replace the mod music folder with the one you just made. or move the mod one to another location if you wish to keep the mp3's Your soundcard will no longer have to decompress the music before it plays it.

Please let us know if this helped. It is easier then us having to upload 1.4gig of WAV files.

Although if enough people request the uncompressed .Wav files, i may upload them the Audiophiles our there.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Delta_02_Cat on January 23, 2012, 02:43:00 PM
Great! Can't wait to here what you created! :)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 23, 2012, 07:35:43 PM
All uploads complete. now it is in the hands of the gods!

The soundtrack is currently 150min...
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Delta_02_Cat on January 24, 2012, 08:41:15 AM
So if the upload is completed, are there any news about the relase?

150min, that's a lot! :)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 24, 2012, 09:01:38 AM
While i don't know anything officially, it should'nt be too far away, say a week...? The music tracks will need to be coded in, but shouldn't be a big job. The bug fixing part of the patch, as far as i know,  was ready two weeks ago, maybe longer. I am guilty for the delay.

I am getting pretty bloody nervouse now lol, i didn't actually realise i had written 150min of music, it just occured to me to find out after uploading. and it isn't all done. I would think a 3 hour mark will easily be hit before i am finished. And on that note, perhaps i will write a little about the soundtrack in first post, a pre emptive strike per say lol
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Delta_02_Cat on January 24, 2012, 09:16:18 AM
You are only guilty of doing a lot of work ;)

I would love to read something about your soundtrack!
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 24, 2012, 10:17:04 AM
First post updated. Will add to it if required as we go. Should call it the 'one stop Pagan shop"
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Delta_02_Cat on January 24, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
This sounds really great, especially the parts about the Dwarfs and the Haradrim, I think I will give you more feedback once I can hear the Soundtrack.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: jonathanimal on January 24, 2012, 03:08:45 PM
While i don't know anything officially, it should'nt be too far away, say a week...? The music tracks will need to be coded in, but shouldn't be a big job. The bug fixing part of the patch, as far as i know,  was ready two weeks ago, maybe longer.

 :o oh snap. been eagerly waiting for this!! also really enjoyed reading your ideas about the music. looking forward to hearing as well as playing with the new patch.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Harding Grim on January 24, 2012, 10:04:22 PM
This sounds like you've been doing amazing work, I really look forward to hearing the new compositions.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on January 25, 2012, 07:15:47 AM
Hi pagan, first of all THANK YOU.
To be honest I do not want to compare your work to that of others, and not tell you because you can make comparisons, indeed, precisely because they are different things in a different context.
I agree that the soundtrack of the films can be a starting point, but this has to stop at THIS point, imho.

I would ask if it were possible to change the music depending on the area in which you enter. The game sees you and you notice that you are entering an area on the main map, would be nice if there was a music appropriate to the population of a certain area when you enter it.

Oh why, we may have thought of this. Or have we?! ;P
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 25, 2012, 08:38:12 AM
HAHA

Actually Gaxleep, my original post before i edited and added all the above mambo jumbo commented on just that. But i deleted it...by mistake, oh well.

The positive is that you are the first 'question' to go on my hall of fame! Yay to you ;)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Herumarath on January 25, 2012, 07:05:04 PM
First, I wanted to say thank you for your efforts.  As much as I love the music from the movies, it does get a little tiresome trying to manage playlists by alt+tab every time I get in a battle.  I'm really looking forward to hearing the soundtrack once it is finished.  If I might make a suggestion?  I'm not sure how difficult it would be (probably impossible) but would there be any way to have a special track that plays when you have been called to rally by a leader?  I think it would be fitting to have suitably epic music playing while on the march as part of a massive army.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Delta_02_Cat on January 27, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
How does the battle music works? Are the tracks going to be played in random order or are the tracks played depending on which side you are fightning on? (This is the way it works in vanilla right?)
Or even against which side you are fightning?
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 28, 2012, 10:22:12 PM
Battle music is chosen by faction. Either yours or enemy. There will be more battle music made to add flavour in future however.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on January 29, 2012, 04:37:39 AM
Can't wait.
Seriously.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on January 31, 2012, 11:35:13 AM
IMPORTANT NOTE: For those with less MEM having crash issues even with this hotfix, http://www.gamefront.com/files/21265447/TLD_3.1_hotfix_1.7z

i will be providing ASAP an OGG Vorbis format Music folder and Music.txt file. it will reduce the music by almost half in size (file size not music length or amount), so should help with memory footprint.

Very sorry about this, a M&B querk it seems.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on January 31, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
IMPORTANT NOTE: For those with less MEM having crash issues even with this hotfix, http://www.gamefront.com/files/21265447/TLD_3.1_hotfix_1.7z

i will be providing ASAP an OGG Vorbis format Music folder and Music.txt file. it will reduce the music by almost half in size (file size not music length or amount), so should help with memory footprint.

Very sorry about this, a M&B querk it seems.

I'll wait your work (great music, well done) 'cause I don't want to miss anything.
Thank you again.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on February 01, 2012, 09:54:17 AM
ok, i have been informed that the music footprint doesn't matter, it is the fact that the soundcard must decompress the mp3's before it plays them which causes the issue. (same sort of issue that was detected with the soundfx some time ago, and was fixed by converting the soundfx to .wav.)

i have updating the first post with instructions for those who are not sure. it isn't hard, it just means you convert the files you already have, rather then re-download a MASSIVE music folder of 1.4gig.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: jonathanimal on February 01, 2012, 10:15:59 AM
the music is top-notch, pagan. great job. i'm really impressed.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on February 01, 2012, 10:28:50 AM
Cheers mate, glade you like it.  :)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on February 01, 2012, 10:40:24 AM
Thx Pagan, but I have a question.
In the info's you provide a file music.txt, what about the scripts.txt that I've already changed by using the "TLD_3.1_test_hotfix_less_music" file ?
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on February 01, 2012, 10:51:41 AM
That's ok, use the script from the initial hotfix,
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21265447/TLD_3.1_hotfix_1.7z
which still uses all the music, but use my music.txt since i have changed all tracks to .wav for you.

We suspect the problem was that each town you approach would force fade a track and begin another, but since towns are not so far apart, it would force track change very often, possibly loading up your memory, in theory.

let me know how this goes.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on February 01, 2012, 03:31:23 PM
I'm glad to say that I've played some time without game crashes.
But the music start and stop randomly (conversion to wma done, files txt copied).
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Jagenfox on February 02, 2012, 12:39:11 AM
I'm really enjoying the music you have created, thanks for the effort  :)


ps I've yet to have a issue with crashing due to music, actually I haven't had a crash at all.  :)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on February 02, 2012, 05:42:30 AM
Thanks Jagenfox.

Just for info, what system spec are you running on?
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Jagenfox on February 03, 2012, 04:49:50 AM
System Specs are
Intel Core 2 Duo, E8500 3.16GHz
3GB Ram
Win XP, 32 bit SP3
1GB GeForce 9800 GT

:)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on December 06, 2012, 04:49:47 PM
Just updated First post, Isengard, Orcs(original orc battle music was given to Mordor), Dunland, Woodelves, Rivendell, Khand and Dwarves all have there own battle music now. No more sharing!

Cheers
Pagan
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Abelard on December 07, 2012, 09:37:53 AM
Great to hear you've done those last few, I will look forward to playing with more of your excellent music!
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on December 12, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Since i had a bit of time up my sleeve before final patch, i have made music for some Gondor Fiefs just to vary it up a bit, since Gondor has by far the most settlements, the same settlement music repeats x10 more often for them.

Thus Black Root Vale (Erech) - Lossarnach - Pinnath Gelin -  Hennath Annun - Dol Amroth and Osgiliath have their own settlement music, nothing special, just standard town tracks  to mix it up a bit.


And a Bonus Gondor Battle Track has been added for kicks. I gathered brass players from all Gondor Fiefs for one big Agro Blow-off.

Cheers
Pagan
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: makou on December 12, 2012, 10:41:18 AM
Great news !

Thanks a lot, Pagan !
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Gaxleep on December 12, 2012, 01:59:39 PM
Yeah! I really appreciate that, Pagan.
Can't wait for the next release!
(xmas gift?)  ;)
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Khergit Kabob on December 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
Does the latest patch plug in the new music, or do I need to follow the instructions in this thread?
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on December 14, 2012, 01:41:20 AM
The final patch due out soon will have the new music to finalize the soundtrack.

Thanks
Pagan
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: jonathanimal on December 15, 2012, 10:26:31 AM
looking forward to the new tracks, pagan. will you be updating the lower sound quality download as well? thanks.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: pagan on December 15, 2012, 03:09:09 PM
The new tracks are all in the lower quality settings as it was pretty clear music had a hand in game crashing.

However i may release an OST in higher then original quality for anyone who wants it.
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: jonathanimal on December 15, 2012, 03:26:17 PM
However i may release an OST in higher then original quality for anyone who wants it.

that would be great. i always felt the music for tld was stellar. you did a great job. 
Title: Re: TLD SOUNDTRACK THREAD
Post by: Buzvonlurt on December 16, 2012, 02:03:48 PM
This is great news, made my day when I saw the new patch was near completion. I was wondering the other day about the soundtrack and am looking forward to hearing the new tracks in-game! Good work!