MBX

Mount&Blade Expansion => Mod Graveyard => Mesoamerican Mod => Topic started by: guspav on February 01, 2007, 06:38:34 PM

Title: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on February 01, 2007, 06:38:34 PM
Is the mod missing something?
If you think so, post it here and I'll seriously take it into account.

Please note that I am trying to make the mod more or less historically accurate, so don't expect me to include AK-47s or something (yeah, I know shooting indians turns some of you on, but please stick to the arquebuses, people!)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: messenger on February 04, 2007, 03:24:30 AM
How about bigger parties?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: emperor77 on February 04, 2007, 11:43:59 AM
Bigger parties would be very nice.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: messenger on February 04, 2007, 12:57:21 PM
Perhaps you could put in formations for the pikemen, that would make them practical.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on February 04, 2007, 07:10:17 PM
bigger parties? like how much bigger? are you sure you'd like to fight armies of 200+ soldiers? battles will take a long time that way, personally I think it'd be boring (like when fighting those massive armies in the last days mod) but might as well try it out a bit

oh and  I haven't got a clue how to make formations, I know it's somewhat possible (if limited), but I don't know how effective they are since they aren't part of the m&b engine
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on February 07, 2007, 07:58:38 AM

I have been working on a combat rescale for Onin-no-Ran, that greatly increases the realism and tactical depth of M&B combat.  It is scheduled for release there in the next version (probably soon).  It is a simple rescale that better reflects actual combat - the numbers balance to about 50 to 65 points of damage for longsword-class blades, with matching armor values.  Both the Holy War mod and ASLOW also plan to implement variants of this model, and there are volunteers to convert TLD as soon as the appropriate code is provided.  So far, the vote has been unanimous that these changes improve the game.

I would like to know if anyone on this project would be interested in such a conversion.  I have some time at the moment, and could probably do much of the actual work - provided I had the necessary files, and a number of people to help with testing and bug-hunting.

I think this mod is really cool - there has been so little done on the neolithic weapons of the Americas.  Although I have never actually tried to fight with the Aztec weapons, I know something about them... and they offer an interesting challenge to gameplay, if carefully modeled.

Ron Losey
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: emperor77 on February 07, 2007, 10:33:36 AM
bigger parties? like how much bigger? are you sure you'd like to fight armies of 200+ soldiers? battles will take a long time that way, personally I think it'd be boring (like when fighting those massive armies in the last days mod) but might as well try it out a bit

oh and  I haven't got a clue how to make formations, I know it's somewhat possible (if limited), but I don't know how effective they are since they aren't part of the m&b engine
Yes i would like that. You don't always have to lead the battle if you are bored.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Riptokus on February 07, 2007, 02:46:53 PM
Anything that has your archers stay back from the fighting will be VERY effective, expecially if you can force your melee units in the way of the enemy and the archers. I usually try to do this manually in my big fights, and it's a pain and doesn't work very well because "Stay here" in game terms means "Mob in this general area"
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on February 07, 2007, 05:51:01 PM
ok ok, I'll look into the formations thingy, but won't promise anything, I am having enough trouble as it is porting the mod to 0.808  :green:

hmm like I said I'll try out higher troop numbers and discuss that with my beta testers, if we all like it it'll stay if not, then forget it... if a lot of people want bigger parties I could simply release a high party version and a low party version, but we'll see that isn't one of my priorities for now.

about the conversion, you're proposing, Ron, is it about  scaiing weapon damage up to make weapons deadlier? if it adds depth to the game and increases the fun of it I'm all for it, but if it is just to make it "realistic" I don't think I'd be very interested, since it's already pretty frustrating when being knocked out by a single arrow (that's why I didn't like star wars mod that much)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on February 07, 2007, 06:37:37 PM

Well, ONR is about to release an operational version of this.  I can get the test version to anybody who wants to try it, but my test team have all agreed that it is an amazing improvement.  ("My test team" ... I'm no programmer, and most of my "test team" are considered gods of the mod community, so the use of possessives here is greatly misplaced.)

Weapons are "deadlier", if you get hit totally without armor, yes.  However, accuracy and speed adjustments, plus armor values that somewhat reflect the difficulty of cutting steel, tend to re-balance the effect.

It's no more frustrating than having to hit the guy 5 or 6 times with a huge sword, while he beats on you with a club and his friend shoots at you with arrows.  Requires different tactics, yes.  However, removing "weapon inflation" and letting people fight with normal-size weapons and still expect some results - it's well worth it.

============

And of course, the big bonus here is that I'm volunteering to do most of the work.  All I need is the files, and a couple of volunteers to help me test it.  If, after the project, the vote is against it - very little loss.  Added bonus is that, since I just finished a version of this for ONR, I can probably make most of the changes in a few hours.

E-mail me the Python script, and I'll take a look at it.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on February 07, 2007, 07:57:12 PM
ok what files do you need? just the items files?
now,I won't email anything right now (will do very soon) because I still need to clean them up a bit.. and the mod isn't running properly yet :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on February 07, 2007, 08:19:22 PM
Just put everything in the module system folder into a .zip file, and send it.  That way, I can make the changes, press build, test it, make changes and try again.

If there are bugs unrelated to the combat engine, it doesn't matter ... as long as you don't need to change any item properties.  I'll make changes and send in the module_items.py file, and you can rebuild the rest at your leisure.

Then, of course, I'll need some testers - I can just mail them each new version of the item_kinds1.txt file, which they can plug in to the most recent release and play.

Plus a little historical data and preferences.  I'll put that in a new thread, and see what happens.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on February 08, 2007, 08:38:35 PM
just sent you the files, enjoy the mod and your experiments :)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: bryce on March 02, 2007, 03:33:46 PM
It would be interesting if you played for quite a while (maybe 2 months?) before the spanish came.

Then have new equipment available over time so you can compete with them and maybe be able to train up some natives as musketeers even....
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 02, 2007, 06:57:31 PM
ah total history bending you say? like a what if scenario? hmm that sounds very interesting, I don't know how much of a pain it'll be though, but yeah it's a good idea
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: bryce on March 02, 2007, 07:25:42 PM
ah total history bending you say? like a what if scenario? hmm that sounds very interesting, I don't know how much of a pain it'll be though, but yeah it's a good idea

Yeah, I think if they had been winning that would eventually have happened.  I guess the only question is how things are different if you start as spanish (if that is possible).
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 03, 2007, 09:34:10 PM
The last 0.751 version I played I felt had the Spanish rival arriving too soon.  I believe at two weeks after campaign start.  I tried several different strategies and simply wasn't able to deal with a 90 man Spanish army in that short space of time.  That was assuming I could even find him.  Several times I wouldn't be in the immediate area of his landing and he would take off after the nearest Cortez force.  Cortez's Spainiards would usually be 40+ strong and so would run away with the rival giving chase.  Of course with the way movement works in M&B they would almost never catch the Cortez force and end up somewhere in southern Argentina.  In these cases I'd get the Spanish faction defeated message before I could even find the rival army.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 04, 2007, 02:40:30 AM
I have delayed Diego Velazquez's army for this version, it'll appear on day 15 (was day 8 before) so you'll have plenty of time to strengthen up, DV's army will be about 50% stronger though, but you should be able to deal with them in 2 weeks game time, it's a decent time frame to get a good army. I am thinking that due to this stupid bug that doesn't allow heroes' capture, I'll make DV's army neutral towards spaniards so you woun't have to be chasing them all over the map (or at least not that much) and not risk losing that hero (or the reward you get for turning him over to Cortes)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 04, 2007, 06:16:36 PM
Velazquez was around 90+ before so you're thinking of upping his party to 130+?  What's your estimate on how big of an army  the player will need to be able to deal with Velazquez?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 05, 2007, 12:32:05 AM
well that'd depend on your skill really, but I'd say a 60-80 strong army should be able to handle him with a good general (that is, YOU :D)
if you want numbers, here they come, straight from the py file:

regular footmen: 30-50
regular crossbowmen:30-50
regular arquebusiers: 30-40
regular horsemen :20-30
regular pikemen and halberdiers 30-50
generals 1

that's a 141- 221 army.. MASSIVE
 
sounds tough.. and really it IS tough, but remember that historically Cortes was heavily outnumbered, he was the greater general though :D
Oh and remember that every single prisoner you take in that battle you'll be able to recruit, so you could get from this: a very good reward in xp, gold and faction points, a new hero (or more xp and gold) and lots of free spanish soldiers. Also note that all troops in this army are regulars so if you face it with elites and veterans it will be a lot easier, if you dare to fight them with peasants then I hope you have cheats enabled and a quick finger  >:D

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 05, 2007, 12:53:10 AM
... and the rest of the story.  If your general (that's you  :shock:) utterly sucks, then the outcome is rather predetermined.


--------------------------------------

Coming back to that earlier "what if" scenario ... after a given period of time, it seems like horses would occasionally be appearing among the native populations.  One of the quests was to bring horses to a native chief.  Presumably the steel weapons and armor have found their way into the native markets by trade or theft ... after a while, the horses should arrive too, first in very limited numbers and then increasing if the game goes on long enough. 

After all, steel weapons require some infrastructure - mining, smelting, whatever.  Any farmer can convince adult horses to produce baby horses under controlled enough conditions that the farmer can keep the baby horses... domestication of livestock was not new to the Mexia, even if they had never seen a horse before. 


On the note of a what-if ... if playing natives, and the Spanish faction were wiped out.  The logical outcome would be, after a while, for a *new* Spanish/other European "faction" to arrive.  Presumably, the new group would be under different command, and would therefore start out more or less neutral (as they would be nervous about repeating the mistakes of their earlier expeditions).  This WAS generally what happened when European expeditions failed ... in not much time, someone else tried the same thing again.


Unrelated - eventually maybe we can get the arenas converted to Aztec ball courts.  Maybe we can even get them to use the head of their enemy as the ball.  Their games were generally as brutal as a combat arena anyway.

-------------------------------------

BTW, I will get the halberds working within proper game balance some time this week.  It's been a crazy week, and going to get worse, but I will MAKE time for that, no matter what.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 05, 2007, 09:21:09 AM
well that'd depend on your skill really, but I'd say a 60-80 strong army should be able to handle him with a good general (that is, YOU :D)
if you want numbers, here they come, straight from the py file:

regular footmen: 30-50
regular crossbowmen:30-50
regular arquebusiers: 30-40
regular horsemen :20-30
regular pikemen and halberdiers 30-50
generals 1

that's a 141- 221 army.. MASSIVE
 
sounds tough.. and really it IS tough, but remember that historically Cortes was heavily outnumbered, he was the greater general though :D
Oh and remember that every single prisoner you take in that battle you'll be able to recruit, so you could get from this: a very good reward in xp, gold and faction points, a new hero (or more xp and gold) and lots of free spanish soldiers. Also note that all troops in this army are regulars so if you face it with elites and veterans it will be a lot easier, if you dare to fight them with peasants then I hope you have cheats enabled and a quick finger  >:D


   

With .808 troops level slower but still maybe in 15 days you could your recruits up to a decent level. Again unless you've made changes to starting characters your probably not going to start higher than charisma 12, leadership 4 allowing a max of 37 troops.  Again this would mean spending all your points on charisma and leadership so your other stats and skills will suffer.  And you won't be able to afford that many right away, assuming that many recruits will be available.

Unless you're changing the effect of leadership 62 men would require a minimum of 21 Charisma and 7 Leadership.  This will basically reduce your character development to gain level,raise charisma, raise leadership if possible, recruit more troops, kill everything you can find and repeat.

Assuming zero losses, which I don't think is going to happen, and you have the money will there be 60 Spanish recruits available in 15 days?  If not you'll have to recruit/rescue natives which isn't always a bad thing.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 05, 2007, 11:20:58 AM
yeah, you may be right about cha, I'll have to look into that.
About spanish recruits you might get 60 (if you don't lose too many in the meantime that is), but recruiting natives is also recommended, since they aren't really weaker than spaniards, their armor is weaker but they have higher athletics and agility and, in the case of totonacs, they do get some european equipment as well
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 05, 2007, 11:46:56 AM
Check my math, but I'm pretty sure the formula for max. party size is 5+charisma+(leadershipx5).
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Hellequin on March 05, 2007, 06:01:01 PM
You can alter the x5 for Leadership, though.  It's in the mod's module.ini file.  So if you want slightly bigger armies, maybe make it x7 or something.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 06, 2007, 12:48:59 PM
I saw that, but then the question is what effect would that have on the rest of the games balance?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 06, 2007, 01:08:55 PM
good point, I don't think it'll be too dramatic.. it's just a matter of beta testing..
for the time being leadership effects have been increased to 7 and 2 extra charisma points will be raised in the beginning of the game

it would be rather nice if all beta testers reported something though, I am taking care of everything again..
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Lord Adler on March 06, 2007, 02:24:34 PM
What do you want reported? We've pretty much covered all bugs and such for the current version. If you're looking for balance issues...well, Ron is the man to ask about that.

I can offer some insight for the party size. I ALWAYS modify the module.ini file to increase the leadership skill bonus to x10. That makes is easier to amass your forces and stay alive until you level up some. Also, when I play my maxed out character, having 200 men is pretty awesome. But do we want players having 200 men? Probably not. But x7 or x8 wouldn't hurt one bit. Having the capability to field a large army is one thing, actually recruiting and maintaining such a force is quite another matter.

I think we're all just waiting for the next update.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 06, 2007, 05:26:54 PM
Allow me to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong.  Why should balance issues be soley up to Ron?  Sure a lot of betatesting is bug and exploit hunting but part of it is also giving your impressions of gameplay. Things like the start was too easy/hard, just right or the middle section wasn't interesting because of x, y and z.  And to give an accurate impression the game should be played unmodified as delivered.

Sorry for butting in and I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 06, 2007, 06:04:32 PM
once again you're right LCjr

the point of beta testing is not only to find bugs but to see if game mechanics are working nicely and even after having 6 beta testers I keep finding little bugs here and there, which I may add, I have mostlyl found myself. Besides most of you are also beta testing the combat model and comments about how it's working are very scarce. Now I know some people haven't got much time, but for instance, Lord Adler, if you thought the leadership had to be tweaked, why didn't you say so in the first place?
My point here is the following: if you have agreed to cooperate, I will be expecting all of you to do so, a beta tester position is not just to play around with a buggy pre release, but it is also to make the mod better (and find all the bugs you can)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 06, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
Allow me to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong.  Why should balance issues be soley up to Ron?  Sure a lot of betatesting is bug and exploit hunting but part of it is also giving your impressions of gameplay. Things like the start was too easy/hard, just right or the middle section wasn't interesting because of x, y and z.  And to give an accurate impression the game should be played unmodified as delivered.

Sorry for butting in and I'll shut up now.

It's not that "balance issues" are up to me.  It's that I designed the RCM, which is currently being used as our combat damage model.  That means that if there is a problem with the weapons data, it's MY problem.  I make a mess ... I clean it up.

If somebody who didn't understand everything I did were to change the model, odds are they would make it worse, not better. 
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 06, 2007, 10:56:43 PM
Allow me to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong.  Why should balance issues be soley up to Ron?  Sure a lot of betatesting is bug and exploit hunting but part of it is also giving your impressions of gameplay. Things like the start was too easy/hard, just right or the middle section wasn't interesting because of x, y and z.  And to give an accurate impression the game should be played unmodified as delivered.

Sorry for butting in and I'll shut up now.

It's not that "balance issues" are up to me.  It's that I designed the RCM, which is currently being used as our combat damage model.  That means that if there is a problem with the weapons data, it's MY problem.  I make a mess ... I clean it up.

If somebody who didn't understand everything I did were to change the model, odds are they would make it worse, not better. 

Yes Ron we know.  But balance extends well beyond your weapons modding.  Are there enough recruits available to deal with the enemies you face?  Are you able to make enough money to afford said troops?  Is troop or party X overpowered/underpowered?  Are you able to complete quests at the level they are awarded to you?  When you consider balance you have to look at the mod and the challenges it presents as whole not just the weapons.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 06, 2007, 11:32:55 PM
Granted, but you have to start somewhere. 

I say start with the physical properties of the weapons and armor, and make them behave in a way that seems reasonable.  Then, if this unbalances other issues like number of recruits or relative party strength, tweak those things later.  That gets the process flowing in one direction.  Once you have concrete data for the items, you can add or subtract troops from the units and/or modify their skills and inventory until the game balances.

The alternative is to change B to fix A, and then change C to fix B, and then change A to fix C.  Unit A is too strong, so you weaken their armor, so that makes Unit B too weak, so you beef up their weapons, and that makes A too strong again, until if you ever do get game balance, it will be for absurd reasons that cannot be tweaked, and any future additions will unbalance everything again.  That is NOT a good process.

The various RCM models have been doing pretty well on this.  HW required some minor changes to the troops to balance, but that didn't take long.  ONR required some rather large changes to the troops model, but we took care of it.  Mesoamerica here has done pretty well as-is (as soon as the fixes in weapon speed are implemented ... but I cut corners on that the first time - my bad).

It's not like myself or any of the various design and testing teams involved in this thing are newbies to computer games.  None of us are going to make one arbitrary change without checking for issues of balance.  Quite the opposite, actually ... which partly accounts for the delays in release of both this mod and HW.  The Beta testing has dragged on much longer than it should, to avoid releasing something that lacks long-term balance.

If the results don't speak for themselves, complain then.  If the results are less than satisfactory, I'll be the first to join you in raising hell over it. 
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 07, 2007, 12:26:06 AM
And what does this any of that have to do with the beta testers giving their impressions of how they perceive the mod's balance?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 07, 2007, 01:32:04 AM
And what does this any of that have to do with the beta testers giving their impressions of how they perceive the mod's balance?

Absolutely nothing, except that if it's a problem with equipment, it's my baby.  Report those over in the thread for Realistic Combat Model, and I'll get on it ASAP.

If it's a problem with anything else, then as soon as we confirm that it's NOT an equipment problem, then it's somebody else's call.  Either way, the call can't really be made until I confirm it one way or the other.  That's what keeps us from running in circles.

That is a side effect of my constructing a monster with the RCM.  I built something so complex that even the slightest change could have unforeseen consequences.  I didn't really ask for that part, but I inherited it... at least until everybody adjusts to the new model.  Quite honestly, I'll be glad when more people adjust to the new model, because it puts a lot of pressure on me as it is now.  If everyone ever gets settled into this thing, then my input will no longer be necessary.

But for now, equipment and balance issues are my fault, at least until proven otherwise.  If they're broken, then I get first crack at fixing them.  If it's not my mistake, then I'll pass it on to somebody who can fix it.

So, what exactly is the problem?  What version, and what is the issue?

---------------------------------------

P.S. - If it's the bloody halberds being too fast, I just sent Guspav a repaired version yesterday ... don't bother reporting that until you've seen the tweaked weapons speeds.  That was certainly my mistake the first time around, but we should be good now.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 07, 2007, 08:37:32 AM
Did you even read the thread Ron?  Seems like I've asked you question before, ah yes the History thread.  You're going on and on about the RCM when it wasn't even mentioned.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 07, 2007, 09:46:38 AM
Did you even read the thread Ron?  Seems like I've asked you question before, ah yes the History thread.  You're going on and on about the RCM when it wasn't even mentioned.

Did I read the thread?  Let me recap...

Well, the original statement said that if there were balance issues, the question should be directed to me.  I did not make that statement, nor did I particularly encourage it, but it seemed to fit the environment...

The response was something along the lines of why I should be in charge of balance issues.  Granted, it seems odd that, since I am a relative newcomer to this mod, that I should be considered the key player in determining game balance.  I considered that a logical question and one deserving a response.  (Other things were stated in that message, but I only responded to the portions which seemed to be directed at or about me.  Others were left to respond to other portions as they saw fit, as those were not really my field.)

Therefore, in response, I stated that since I just finished changing all of the item stats, the basic procedure is going to be handing all balance issues to me until all item data is debugged.  Once the item data issues are resolved and the outcome accepted by all concerned, further issues of balance will be handled at a later date, by adjusting whatever other data seems not to fit the desired outcome.  The implication is that no major changes should be made without first considering the equipment and/or recent changes to it.

This has not been an easy process, but my hope is that once the item data is in place and fully functional, my input will no longer really be necessary and all playability issues can be returned to control of the original mod designers.  The sooner that this can be accomplished, the better - but we're not quite there yet.  (Hopefully the most recent set of changes will be getting very close.)  Until we get there, this combat model will continue to be at the core of any issues of playability....  It is, after all, what has been changed.

Is there anything that needs to be added to this sequence?  Is this procedure in some way unacceptable?  If so, please point out what needs to be altered.

If there are suggestions for the game that have nothing to do with immediate problems of military balance or playability (i.e. mission scripting or economy), then they are not in my field... and any questions of that nature, if directed at me, will be passed on to someone else.

----------------------------------------------

On that note - if anybody has noticed any issues of balance pertaining to combat, at any level (player, troops, strategic map and war, whatever), do please post them in the combat realism thread immediately.  The sooner we know about them, the sooner they can be debugged.

Suggestions or bugs that have little to do with the combat model continue to go here or in the bug reports.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 07, 2007, 10:06:13 AM
You're a lost cause Ron.  At least Guspav understood the dicussion and that's the main thing.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 07, 2007, 10:44:06 AM
Guspav, I had a thought on the Diego Velazquez army.  Maybe we're going at this the wrong way.

As it is, if you make them hostile to the Spanish, they go running off toward Texas or someplace.  Then, their parasitic powers over the Spanish kill you before you can find them.  If you make them neutral, they just wander randomly, still exerting their parasitic powers.

Could we go the other way, and make them like a true faction?  Say, they arrive with the equivalent of four Spanish armies and six patrols (or however many it would take to be certain to cripple the Spanish faction).  Then, instead of weakening the Spanish by magic, just let them hunt down the Spanish troops.  They will do enough damage within a few days to start being very costly to Cortez.  If one or two wander off ... well, they will either eventually be destroyed or you will eventually find them (possibly after they finish off your faction, but that's the risk involved).  Their largest unit could still contain some of the "decisive battle" effect, but it wouldn't be an all-or-none proposition.  Most importantly, there wouldn't be that instant time limit where they drink you using voodoo magic ... you would have more than five minutes to get organized and deal with them.  Also, you won't have to build a single army of 300 troops, and then try to figure out how to let the player get 300 troops to match... the armies would be more-or-less normal size with the rest of the game.  There would just be several of them.

I don't know how historical that would be, but I'm assuming the Governor's army didn't just land in a big bulk without sending out a few patrols first.  (Cortez may have been the better commander, but I'm assuming Diego Velazquez didn't send his army out under the command of a complete turnip.) 

That's the one way I see to actually give Velazquez MORE troops than the entire Spanish faction, and still let the player engage them.  A little less dramatic than one big final battle, but a lot more workable from a balance perspective.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 07, 2007, 11:01:58 AM
ah yes that is logical, however, what would happen if the NPC parties actually manage to destroy that army? if they're constantly engaging them you'd have to join a battle and then you'd lose the hero and the prisoners (remember that nasty bug) if armie manages to fix that enemy_defeated  dialogue starter soon, I'll look into making it that way, but like it is right now I'm not sure it'll work very well
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 07, 2007, 11:13:59 AM
ah yes that is logical, however, what would happen if the NPC parties actually manage to destroy that army? if they're constantly engaging them you'd have to join a battle and then you'd lose the hero and the prisoners (remember that nasty bug) if armie manages to fix that enemy_defeated  dialogue starter soon, I'll look into making it that way, but like it is right now I'm not sure it'll work very well

We'll get the dialog fixed eventually.  I have faith in the abilities of you and the other programmers around here.

However, the risk is the same now.  If another party attacks them, same bug.  Worse now, because if they get into a long, drawn out fight, you can't attack without triggering the prisoner bug and you can't wait because they sap your faction just by existing.

The cheap work-around would be that if your "hero" prisoner is taken by someone else, just have him re-appear back with Cortez... attached to some dialog of how he was turned in for a bounty.  Then you could presumably talk/bribe Cortez to hand him over to your custody.  (This would require that Cortez NOT offer to join you until after the Velazquez army was defeated.)

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 07, 2007, 11:40:29 AM
hmm yeah I guess, I'm not sure that'll work either, because when NPC armies defeat DV's army they never capture Panfilo Narvaez, I'd  have to check if the defeat is being registered.. but yeah.. time to experiment I'd say ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Lord Adler on March 07, 2007, 08:07:45 PM
You're a lost cause Ron.  At least Guspav understood the dicussion and that's the main thing.


I think you've butted in quite enough.


Guspav: I'm sorry if I look like a leech that just in this for the pre-beta, but I reported every bug I saw and have made some comments about the balance of the RCM in the RCM thread (one of which was ignored completely). The thing I said about leadership never really occurred to me until it was mentioned because I always play with an imported character that is tough enough to even the odds.

I'd say that it's damn difficult to play either side at the moment. With the spaniards, your men die quickly against overwhelming odds, and as a native you die because you are half naked and have a spear. Some new tactics features would be good, but I understand that this is Armagan's problem. So for the moment I suggest we clean up the mod until we have fewer crashes and buggy dialogues, and make sure that all the battles work as they should.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 07, 2007, 08:54:27 PM
I don't think you are a parasite at all and I am aware that you have reported several bugs in the past, but what you said earlier about not being any bugs anymore and that you had tweaked the mod and not telling that it made it better but after someone already had suggested it, seriously got to my nerves :D

Keep participating though, I bet you'll all like the new stuff I'm including in the next beta :)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: LCJr on March 08, 2007, 09:59:49 PM
It's a public forum Adler and I was trying to be polite about it.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 09, 2007, 11:45:21 PM
ok boys, that's enough
nobody is a leech or parasite and I do believe LCjr has a point, though maybe this isn't the right way or place to discuss it
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Phoenix on March 15, 2007, 10:56:49 AM
Here are my suggestions:
-those conquistador helmest are too shiny, wonder what do they use to wash them
-why aren't there mounted troops with firearms?
MAJOR
I've played most mods for 808 and in every mod I find a great unique idea that makes me ask  myself why hasn't it been added in the other mods or in native. K here is what I think it should be added from other mods, of course after asking the people who made them for permission:
-chest locator, its very annoying when you can't find your chest
-onin no ran: love the idea of travelling swordsmen that challenge you
-battle of sicily: awesome that you can be made lord of a town and the siege system is great
-guardians party: the only mod which I know with arenas that aren't like the ones in native, also like the possibility to fight in a dessert
-firearms: most challenging mod iin my opinion, gunshots are best made from all mods and have a great variety of firearms, also love the idea that parties of peasants and farmers can join your party

tell me if missed some other great mod  :idea:
and about this mod I like that combat is faster, i mean that everyone dies from 1 or 2 hits while in native there have been times when I had to hit someone like 10 timews for him to go down. phoenix out  :D
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 19, 2007, 12:18:32 AM
As far as I can tell, M. only gives you two ranks ... "errand boy" and "valuable assistant" (at which point the new hero joins you.)

The Mexia Empire was known for an elaborate structure of social status - that's what all of the "Eagle Warrior" and "Jaguar Warrior" orders were about.  Seems players should be able to work through those ranks.  Maybe even get a change of armor each level, to fit the new rank.  Maybe a bonus point to charisma for the higher ones.  There's not enough ranking gradations there.  Potential for hours of play there, just trying to see how many ranks you can go through.

---------------
---------------

Oh, and Phoenix: 
The duelists in ONR were historical - part of Japanese history and culture.  They would be highly out of place in Mexico.

Also, Guspav already announced that there would eventually be a system of attacking towns ... siege system or whatever.  However, that is far ahead on the to-do list.

The fast combat is the "Realistic Combat Model"  (RCM) ... Mesoamerica is the first customized port from the RCM's first appearance in ONR.  It will certainly not be the last ... most of the major mods are scheduled to convert to this system for the next versions.  I must admit, however, that the improvement to game play in Mesoamerica was actually much greater than I expected.

And yeah, we should add the fool inventory chest location flag.  Since Fisheye was helpful enough to post it, it's no big deal to add.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 19, 2007, 09:51:12 AM
Yes military ranks will be there, maybe for the next version in which you'll be able to become either a jaguar warrior, an eagle warrior or a cuachic and get a few bonus points/skills for doing so, also eagle and jaguar armor will no longer be sold.. whew.. still a long way until this is finished, eh? :D
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 19, 2007, 06:51:43 PM
There's always a long way to go.  You never really get "finished".  Even after version 1.0 is done, you still think of 900 things you wanted to add.  So then there are versions 1.1, and 1.6, and 2.0 ...

The good news is that each step (theoretically) makes it better.  (I say "theoretically" ... it is possible to do damage, but that should be avoidable.)

Title: Re: Suggestions - Firearms
Post by: borianm on March 21, 2007, 05:00:56 AM
 First I want to thank you all team for this mod. I realy have enjoied playing it.
I have little suggestion about firearms in the game - I think that 60 shots a too much especialy for that period, even two-three centuries after soldiers
normaly carried about 30 rounds... in game it makes crossbows and crossbow soldiers absolete and no need... and spanish arquebusers/musketeers of 16-th century realy carried less than 20 ready-to-load rounds in bandollier,
most standart number was 12 and soldiers ironically named it "The 12 Apostles" ... and also it could be great to show amunition on body of model using such a bandollier.   For example look the link^

http://foto.mail.ru/mail/boris.mikhailov/529/i-537.jpg

 Also I think arquebuse/carbine ROF even now is too high but it may affect gameplay...
Title: Re: Suggestions - Firearms
Post by: Ron Losey on March 21, 2007, 05:57:53 AM
First I want to thank you all team for this mod. I realy have enjoied playing it.
I have little suggestion about firearms in the game - I think that 60 shots a too much especialy for that period, even two-three centuries after soldiers
normaly carried about 30 rounds... in game it makes crossbows and crossbow soldiers absolete and no need... and spanish arquebusers/musketeers of 16-th century realy carried less than 20 ready-to-load rounds in bandollier,
most standart number was 12 and soldiers ironically named it "The 12 Apostles" ... and also it could be great to show amunition on body of model using such a bandollier.   For example look the link^

http://foto.mail.ru/mail/boris.mikhailov/529/i-537.jpg

 Also I think arquebuse/carbine ROF even now is too high but it may affect gameplay...

See reply in "Combat Realism", where this was ALSO posted.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nethros on March 21, 2007, 11:10:42 PM
I told you about this in MSN, but I'm gonna post it here too to see what other people think:

You should include some side story for one of the recruitable heroes, such as Bahati. What I mean with that is:

*SMALL SPOILERS BELOW*

















Why he was imprisoned. Was it just for slavery or for something else?
What happens to him?
Does he get to fight the guy that imprisoned him? (A good way of doing this is making a scene that's just like an arena)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: dulahan on March 22, 2007, 04:21:27 PM
It might be helpful to be able to leave troops with your NPCs like in some mods (And possibly vanilla?) - especially when you need to catch those pesky noblemen and the likes that can move faster than your full army.  Or if you're supposed to be able to, then I can't and found another bug!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Duuvian on March 22, 2007, 05:14:38 PM
I have a sort of question/suggestion: how about Llamas purchasable from the Mayans? Were they used in battle? It would give the natives a (poor) cavalry option

My other suggestion would be to reduce how common the obsidian knife is. It seems like many of the pure archer troops will have them, which is fine with me, but once in a while a veteran infantry unit will whip out his little knife, and he's toast unless he's fighting an enemy who uses that big, slow polearm, and only if he gets lucky.

Also, I play a Mexica who happens to use firearms. I use the carbine, since it reloads just a little quicker. Ive noticed its a pretty crappy weapon though, as I can usually get maybe two shots off at infantry charging my side. If you manage to hit someone, it generally wont drop them in one shot, especially if they arent bare chested. NPC gunners have the same problem, but they usually have some armor so they can take more hits than a bowman. As far as effectivness though, the native bows absolutely blow firearms away. I like it because the natives like to trade ranged fire and often die from one arrow, while the spanish are more "tank" like.  I guess I dont really have a suggestion, but I figured I'd put it in since I've seen mostly posts from the Spanish perspective.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 23, 2007, 02:09:10 AM
ok first llamas are NOT native to mesoamerica and were never traded this far, they are animals adapted for living around the Andes mountains, Incas did use them, but  they were veeeeery far away from the mexicas (though not so far away from the southmost mayan groups, which don't appear in this mod anyway)
second, llamas could not be used as riding animals and have never been used like that, only as pack animals or as sources of meat, milk and wool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerica

If you want to discuss damage numbers, armor strength and all that, head to the combat model thread ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 23, 2007, 04:19:24 AM
I have a sort of question/suggestion: how about Llamas purchasable from the Mayans? Were they used in battle? It would give the natives a (poor) cavalry option

My other suggestion would be to reduce how common the obsidian knife is. It seems like many of the pure archer troops will have them, which is fine with me, but once in a while a veteran infantry unit will whip out his little knife, and he's toast unless he's fighting an enemy who uses that big, slow polearm, and only if he gets lucky.

Also, I play a Mexica who happens to use firearms. I use the carbine, since it reloads just a little quicker. Ive noticed its a pretty crappy weapon though, as I can usually get maybe two shots off at infantry charging my side. If you manage to hit someone, it generally wont drop them in one shot, especially if they arent bare chested. NPC gunners have the same problem, but they usually have some armor so they can take more hits than a bowman. As far as effectivness though, the native bows absolutely blow firearms away. I like it because the natives like to trade ranged fire and often die from one arrow, while the spanish are more "tank" like.  I guess I dont really have a suggestion, but I figured I'd put it in since I've seen mostly posts from the Spanish perspective.

Yeah ... further damage model discussion should be directed to the combat model thread.  however, since it was mentioned here, I'll put in the short answer.

In short, the gun damage numbers are very much based off of real life shooting statistics (NATO, American FBI, and others) and reports thereof, adjusted slightly for the type of weapon... should come out a little under 30% incapacitation rate on the first hit.  (Reload speed is probably a little faster than real, but that was the best the game engine could do.)  Only in arcade games do people just fall over every time you shoot them.  In reality, slightly better armor penetration is the only real advantage of early firearms, which they paid for heavily in lower rate of fire, and generally lower damage than a much larger arrowhead.  That's why this is the "realistic combat" model.

Two, the Spanish DID and are supposed to have a huge advantage in body armor, and a slight advantage in weapons (tempered slightly by the fact many Spanish weapons were designed for an anti-armor role, which did not really help them much in Mexico).  That's part of the charm of the Mesoamerica mod ... massive deliberate dissimilarity of weapons and equipment.  Other mods do more balanced combat ... this one does not.

The obsidian knives were common and traditional weapons of the Aztecs ... sometimes ceremonial, or with special family attachment.  You should expect people to carry and use them.  Do not, however, underestimate them ... they can prove quite fast and deadly, especially in a crowd where you can't concentrate on using reach against him.

And you cannot ride a llama, any better than you can ride a goat.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Phoenix on March 23, 2007, 05:03:54 AM
k want to apologyze for my noobish suggestions since I know almost nothing about this period in history or firearms, sorry my favourite period is medieval europe around the time of the crusades especially the fourth one since then Constantinople falls right under our nose(I'm Bulgarian 8))
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Duuvian on March 23, 2007, 12:46:03 PM
Cool, I didnt know that, thanks for educating me. Next time I try to ride a Llama I'll know why people  laugh  ;)

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 23, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
I wouldn't advise you to ride a llama if you're over 40kg  :lol:
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 23, 2007, 11:48:16 PM
I wouldn't advise you to ride a llama if you're over 40kg  :lol:

I would have called it over 40 I.Q. - but whatever.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Nethros on March 24, 2007, 12:21:58 AM
Correction: UNDER 40 I.Q? Or it's just me that doesn't get the joke?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on March 24, 2007, 12:30:49 AM
Correction: UNDER 40 I.Q? Or it's just me that doesn't get the joke?

If you're over 40 IQ, you're too smart to try to try to ride a llama.  Just like if you're over 40 KG, you're too heavy to ride one.

(If you're under 40 IQ, you might be dumb enough to think you could get away with that ... and in that case, more power to you.)

It's not the joke that eludes you ... it's the grammar.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Apollon-04 on March 24, 2007, 03:13:16 PM
I have a suggestion, you know the gold bracelets and gold earrings? well shouldnt you be able to equip those? i think the earrings might be hard, because im pretty sure when you make a helmet, it overrides your hair, so if you had to make earrings, the scalp would automatically be bald, and youd have to make the helmet the whole top part of the head, jsut with earrings, and then your character wouldnt look like he normally does (if you dont get what im trying to say jsut tell me and ill try to explain it). The gold bracelets would be fairly easy to make, theyd jsut be like a gauntlet without gloves. You may not be able to make the earrings work, but the gold bracelets would look cool!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on March 24, 2007, 04:37:28 PM
yep, you're right, that could work, however, I'd have to model a bracelet AND a hand, and color would conflict somewhat, besides that i don't know how gauntlets are animated (can find out, though)

EDIT: they seem to use md3 animations which I don't know yet how to setup (that's why we don't have new sheaths yet)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Goodknight on April 09, 2007, 07:46:35 AM
First of all I must say I thank you for this mod. I have waited to play something like this. It is wonderful.

What my suggestion is:

I can see that this mod has pieced together as accurately as possible the events that took place in 1520/21. I long for something slightly different though. We all know what happened to the indigeonous peoples of the americas in later years. I want to try to change history and prevent the subsoquent genocides (thats how I see it anyway). I like playing Tlaxcaltec but I am very mindful of thier place in history. I think they could have done better. It would be incredible to make it possible for an amitious Tlaxcaltec (and possibly Mexica) to meet with the leaders of every town and try to form an alliance against the Spanish, not just be thier lapdogs. High charisma might be necessary, not unlike the negotiations in Storymod. It would be wonderful to be able to unite the peoples of this region as one big confederacy against european encroatchment.

PS: I have played this mod ALOT but I never quite completed it, please forgive me and disregard my suggestion if this is already in play.
PSS: If only it were possible to animate pouring molten gold down Cortez's throat!
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on April 09, 2007, 08:21:55 AM
It is already possible for the Mexica and Tlax. to ally.  If you play the Spanish, they will most certainly do so when you are least prepared for it.  Not sure the exact options if you are playing Tlax.

The other towns and their subsequent quests have not yet been implemented.  I'm not sure when Guspav foresees them coming into play.  It may also eventually be possible to play as one of the other tribes, but that is most certainly a long way off.

And historically, the Spanish invasions were unnecessarily brutal and deliberately aimed at crushing the indigenous cultures, but they were not technically a true "genocide".  Spain actually wanted enough of the locals to survive that they could be enslaved.  Mostly a semantic difference, all considered, but the term "genocide" is technically incorrect.  The eradication of large population blocks by disease was not really deliberate, and actually worked against the Spanish interest in having a population to subjugate.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Duuvian on April 09, 2007, 07:35:30 PM
Well, from my limited memory, I think gustav said in an earlier post that if you start beating an enemy faction, they will always ally with the other faction. Thats how it works on the Mexica side anyways in EVERY game i've played through, so it seems likely to me. That makes it fairly impossible to achieve uniting all the indigenous peoples in the game onto your side, as Mexica and Tlax start off hating each other, Mexica is neutral to the Spanish and Tlax is hostile to the Spanish. Once Mexica gets the upper hand on the Tlaxtecs, the Tlaxtecs ally to the Spanish and then it's the Mexicas who become the underdogs (at least until the Tlax are eliminated, which usually doesnt take long after they ally to the Spanish)

I'd have to agree with Goodknight, it would be fun to change history if your playing as the natives by unifying the continent somehow. Maybe through some quests to prove to neighboring tribes that it would be a better idea to ally with you rather than the Spanish. I have confidence in guspav thinking of something good.

And pouring liquid gold down Cortez's throat would make one hellacious ending screen on a native victory. Just a still picture would be sweet if it was well done, but if it was modelled I would wet my pants, haha.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on April 10, 2007, 08:59:11 AM
hmm yep.. those sound like interesting suggestions, to have each city have it's own quests and reputation requirements so that you can make it's inhabitants loyal to your cause (regardless of what it is), metal items trade should also start flowing after a few weeks so that would fire a what if scenario... I'm not sure if it'll be very healthy to the troops file since only troops in the 1-255 id  numbers range can be upgradable, but we'll see.

Also a way of the mexicas being able to visualise the spaniards as a threat would be interesting and potentially dangerous to the spanish faction.... hmmm

thank you all for your suggestions, they are very good and I'll see what i can do about them to make the mod more interesting.. even though it'll be a TON of work hehe
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Duuvian on May 08, 2007, 08:36:31 PM
Just a few suggestions:

1: I noticed that the halberd and the poleaxe have the exact same stats, except the halberd is slightly heavier. It seems to me that the poleaxe would have less or no thrust damage and (perhaps) higher swing damage or higher speed. I say this because the poleaxe doesnt appear to have anything capable of thrusting, just an axeblade. While this could still (maybe) be used to drag across an opponent in a thrusting motion, it still seems to me it should be less damaging than it is now. Plus there is no reason other than looks to use a halberd.

2: A two handed obsidian axe for the natives would be cool, if they existed. Right now they only have 2h Macuahuatls.

3: Not sure if it is a bug, but some totonic units use spanish equiptment. I know I've seen 2h metal axes, and I think I remember seeing swords also.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on May 08, 2007, 10:48:15 PM
I can get a couple of those, at least partially:

The halberd and poleaxe stats were thrown together when the new halberd models were added.  They may need some tweaking.  I said that the new halberds had an awl-pike point and needed thrust damage stats like an awl-pike ... but that comment didn't make it into the last release.  There may be a lot of things like that, which could use a little tweaking.

As far as I can find in history, no two-handed stone cutting axes were used in the Americas, at least not in any number.  Larger items were mostly hammers - and stone sledge hammers are included, if unpopular as weapons.  Native combat in the Americas was mostly based around light, fast weapons - obsidian daggers were valued family possessions (with a social status similar to what Japan placed on swords).

Actually, the two-handed macuahuatl was probably a LOT less common than what is seen in this mod.  That was an accommodation to give them a fighting chance against Spanish armor and horse.  Sort-of an assumption that, once they realized what they were up against, they would go home and dig out the heavier weapons.

There are eventual plans to incorporate a certain number of European items into the native forces, to represent the in-flow of such weapons and equipment in trade.  So far, there are only a few among the Totonic, but there has been discussion of further development of that theme.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on May 09, 2007, 12:38:55 AM
That is true, stone and obsidian axes were all meant to be used one handed since they had a short grip (my model doesn't seem very short thoug, will nee to fix that hehe)
Still I am going to add a copper axe. Since those were used as wood cutting tools I am guessing they should be two handed, besides a copper axe would be VERY heavy.

Actually I am not so sure about the two handed macuahuitls being that rare, In Bernal Diaz's  Chronicles he describes "sticks with razor sharp blades as tall as a man and that had to be wielded two handed" But he doesn't say whether most soldiers were armed with them or just a few. Still, macuahuitls did require some pedigree for being used, a lot like european swords, so the average novice warrior shouldn't have one very frequently (either the one handed or two handed version), I am going to check troop inventories a bit to make lower level troops use more tool-like weapons instead.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on May 09, 2007, 02:56:59 AM
On that note, some less-refined obsidian-blade or flint-head war clubs might be in order.  Not wanting to give too much credit to an utterly bizarre movie, but "Apocalypto" had some good ones.  That movie also pointed out that a lot of native troops in the area, at least outside of the Mexia Empire, wore no armor at all.  (Some art of the period would somewhat confirm that.)  We seem to be missing those two points. 

Granted, that is partially because not much has been done with the other tribes yet, but this is a suggestions thread, after all.

Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Sunhawken on July 12, 2007, 07:30:05 AM
I all ways hated when i could not join battles between 2 enemys .

 The menu for that should be like this.

   "Don't get involved"
   "Help [Side 1]"     
   "Help [Side 2]"
   "Attack Both parties"
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on July 12, 2007, 08:06:01 AM
I am not sure that can be done with the current module system, but I'll look into it
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Sunhawken on July 12, 2007, 08:52:23 AM
I am not sure that can be done with the current module system, but I'll look into it


 Well how is it done in the arena?
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: The Xeno on July 12, 2007, 04:58:50 PM
The Arena is hard-coded... Three way combats aren't, and (granted I am not a modder) it seems from what i've read that it would be near-impossible to get around that - just as you couldn't have more than two parties fighting one battle in the early versions of M&B

(Bar perhaps some weird convolution of the noble-man quest...)
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on July 25, 2007, 12:44:47 AM
Don't know if this is a suggestion or a discussion topic, but what does anybody know of the "Huitzauhqui" ...

To get everybody on the right track, those are obsidian-bladed clubs other than axes or Macuahuitl.

If anybody has any good pictures or drawings of them, they would be a good addition.  Particularly a good addition for the non-Mexia tribes, who would be far less likely to use the Macuahuitl.


Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on July 27, 2007, 08:26:07 AM
There was a discussion started on the HW thread about enemy morale, that came to an interesting and applicable proposition.  In the gap between battle sequences, when the player is given the option of (attack, order troops to attack, and leave/surrender) ... the enemy force does not have a chance to disengage.

It needs to run a check to see if they attack or retreat (presumably the same one that determines if they attack or run on the map), and another for party speed (again, presumably the same one that determines if the player gets the "leave" option.  If they want to leave and can, it would go straight to the loot screen (maybe a message screen, "The enemy breaks and runs" "continue").  Then, their force (what's left of it) would still be on the map after the battle, like with the "leave" option.

That should be a priority ... every battle should not drag on to the last man standing.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: guspav on July 27, 2007, 10:24:35 AM
that sounds good , but is there a way to do that with the current module system?
I think morale and all that is still being worked on and should be definitely an important part of the game (and mod), but it is still not working as it should, of course, workarounds could be possible, but since the next version is presumably  close, I don't see much point in overclocking my brain fro something like that for a while :P
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: Ron Losey on July 27, 2007, 08:46:59 PM
This should be an easy bit of code.  Just the script between battles.  There is already a variable in place to determine which party is faster (it determines if you get the option to leave or surrender).  There is also a variable to estimate strength (how parties on the map decide if they should attack or run).  You just need a check against these two numbers to determine if you get the (attack, order attack, leave/surrender) screen, or if you get a message like "The enemy breaks and runs ... continue) and a cut straight to the loot screen.  Equivalent of you leaving, except that you still get loot.

If you're not following me, I'll put Fujiwara on this one (as soon as he gets back from being off-line for a week) and make sure he knows that a bunch of other mods need that code too.  He likes this kind of stuff.  There is no way I could code something like that myself, just because I don't know Python that well ... but the variables are already in place if you can just get the syntax right.
Title: Re: Suggestions
Post by: g0u0e0s0t on April 23, 2010, 02:45:41 PM
@guspav
"yeah, I know shooting indians turns some of you on" NOOOO!!!!

why to murder innocent peoples tribes?!, to "turn on" some dumpshit assholes of the new world order?!

remember that the Indianic tribes show to the world the exotic foodstuffs and not only, that the world didn't even knew and the "civilized" pirates of europe they even murdered them!