MBX

Mount&Blade Expansion => The Last Days => TLD.808 => Topic started by: Ancientwanker on January 17, 2007, 07:48:52 AM

Title: (old) TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ancientwanker on January 17, 2007, 07:48:52 AM
Current jobs:.

-Modelling and Texturing work. Contact one of the Devs: Llew, Dablade, Octoburn, Triglav.

-Voice work (Especially for Dwarves). Contact Dablade.

-LOD makers. Contact a Dev.

-With the disappearance of AW, the rest of the team has taken over development of TLD. Even though there are a number of us, help is always welcome. If you've got something you think we might want, send it to one of the devs and we may very well use it.
Voice Work:.
Ideas-to-date list (modified list based on Merentha's suggestions). The highest priority at the moment is for Dwarf battle cries.

Dwarves:

Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-męnu! /Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you! (1st age)
Khazâd ai-męnu!/The Dwarves are upon you!
Sigin-tarâg ai-męnu! /The long beards are upon you!
Rukhs! /Orcs!
Uzbad Mahal /Lord Aule
Dain!
Thorin!
Gror!
Náin!
Uzbad Dain / Lord Dain, etc.
Uzbad Thorin
Uzbad Gror
Uzbad Nain

Gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.
Gimli: 'I spit upon your grave'

-Ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.
-Ai  prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)
-Durugnul 'your grave'

And this may also be used as a warcry or a texture for some Dwarven weapons and armor:
(http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/graphics/orc_inscr.jpg)

Tarâg-udrig / Troll-bane
Rakhâs-udrig / Orc-bane

Mernak Mabazgân! / Remember the dead!

Gurd! / Have fear!

Mirkwood:
Thranduil
Taur-nu-Fuin / Taur-e-Ndaedelos (Though given that these names have a sinister connotation, they might not use them)
Eryn Lasgalen
Alta Calenryn
Aure entuluva  (Day will come again.  Hurin cried it as he fought the 70 trolls during Nirnaeth Arnoediad)
Auta i lome' (The night is passing)
Utulie'n aure (The day has come.  this might do better as a victory cry for the elves)
Elbereth  +/ Gilthoniel
Ecthelion
Aiya elenion ancalima (Both Frodo and the elves in the Shire cried this, along with Elbereth)

Rohan:
Forth Eorlingas
Forth Helmingas
Death (debatable)
Theoden and the Mark
Edoras and the Mark
For Theoden
Helm! Helm Hammerhand
Theodred   (Or some variation on vengeance for Theodred or the Isen)


Gondor:
Gondor
Faramir
Boromir
Ecthelion
Minas Tirith
Dol Amroth
Amroth for Gondor
Filthy beast
Leave no orc alive

Does anyone know any Gaelic warcries?  The Dunlendings could use those.  After all, at Helm's Deep Gamling had to translate for the others.
Dunland
Death to the Forgoil
Death to the Strawheads
Dunland
Our blood, our land.
*Deep angry yells or bellows* -Berserker style.

Orcs
Tark
Ghash agh Burzum (I sort of threw this together, it should mean fire and darkness)
Tark-glob  (man-fool)
pushdug (dung-filth)
ska
shai
Other snarls or gibberish.

For the Eye!
Death to men
Death
We are the fighting Uruk-hai!

Haradrim
Inka means North, apparently.  So if you throw that into your foreign-sounding gibberish, it might add some nerdy verisimilitude

Easterlings
Foreign sounding babble, different babble language from the harad. heh.

Corsairs
Blood and souls for the sea demon!
The black sails!
Umbar!
Spoils for the taking!
Leave none alive!

Dunedain
Elendil
Elessar
Arnor

Samples from buzvonlurt:
http://www.fireluster.com/newgondorshouts.mp3
http://www.fireluster.com/newrohanshouts.mp3
http://www.fireluster.com/haradrimshouts.mp3
http://www.fireluster.com/OrcShouts.mp3

If you have any ideas, feel free. And if you have any sounds that would work in any capacity, send a copy to Dablade as he's doing the sound stuff.

Models & Textures needed:

Large scene props or Full scenes:
A cavern system. Various passages and caves that could be pushed together with the edit mode to create various cavern systems. For example: 3 types of long cave passage, 1 short, 2 types of cavern-ish rooms, etc. With the doors modeled like the vanilla dungeon rooms to make it easy to connect them in edit mode. With this we could generate a variety of cave scenes.

New props needed:

Marble columns and arches in a white marble style for placing in gondor scenes.

Columns of other sorts for placing in Moria, Mordor, Harad scenes. Dwarvish looking ones, others, etc.

Ruin models for placing in scenes. Various types of ruin, from the ancient sort, to standing stones, to piles of rubble, to gondorian buildings that have collapsed.

Armor modelers needed:

We can always use good armor and helmet modeling talent. If you're interested, PM one of the team and we'll find something for you.
Title: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on January 17, 2007, 08:00:35 AM
...
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: messenger on January 22, 2007, 02:32:52 PM
I can give it a crack I guess, but I only do buisness over MSN. PM if you have an address :P.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: newb on February 01, 2007, 06:02:27 PM
Posted a PM a while back requeting ur e-mail... Samples are done.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on February 01, 2007, 09:23:25 PM
Posted a PM a while back requeting ur e-mail... Samples are done.

Check your inbox.

Thanks. :)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: newb on February 02, 2007, 12:55:07 AM
Done. E-mail sent. Have fun! ;)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Satyr on February 02, 2007, 01:23:20 PM
Says those sample files your provided don't exist yo. Maybe you can give us a line to say?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Seff on February 07, 2007, 02:03:22 PM
I worked a little more on Helm's Deep today - I'll have a preliminary screeny up before too long.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Pellidon on February 09, 2007, 08:41:05 AM
if someone needs a reference for dol guldur, here's a link
http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=20&hl=en&q=+site:www.john-howe.com+dol+guldur
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Deored Eirik on February 09, 2007, 07:42:05 PM
   Need any more from me, Dablade?

Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on February 13, 2007, 01:44:52 PM
   Need any more from me, Dablade?


I'd rather wait for Ancientwanker to come back, before asking you for more stuff. Thanks for the help, I'm sure we'll be able to put your obvious talent to good use before the next release. :)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Lord Of The Sith Lords on March 03, 2007, 10:37:27 PM
i could do voices pm me of what you need  ;)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: dstarsboy on April 01, 2007, 05:04:01 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why don't you use the voices and sounds from the EA LOTR games? Like Battle For Middle Earth, especially. It's obvious that much of the armor design took these games and movies into consideration (which I love, by the way) so I don't see why we can't use the voice acting or even the music as well (the one song in BM really gets old after a while, haha)? If this mod is non-profit there shouldn't be any legal issues as long as you clearly state where you got the sound/music from.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on April 02, 2007, 12:48:20 AM
This may be a dumb question, but why don't you use the voices and sounds from the EA LOTR games? Like Battle For Middle Earth, especially. It's obvious that much of the armor design took these games and movies into consideration (which I love, by the way) so I don't see why we can't use the voice acting or even the music as well (the one song in BM really gets old after a while, haha)? If this mod is non-profit there shouldn't be any legal issues as long as you clearly state where you got the sound/music from.

actually, we're trying to stay from movie designs as far as possible. That's why there's a movie minimod that adds movie stuff.
And even if it's non-profit mod, it's still illegal. So no, we're not going to use EA sounds.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Sheogorath on April 02, 2007, 01:16:18 AM
I can do a decent Russian accent, that might work well for your Dunlanders.  Or actual Russian, if you like.  I know a little, along with some quite unpleasant insults.

And I can do some gibberish for your Harad/Easterlings to.

As to the Gondorians, a nice light British accent, perhaps?  Pip pip cheerio? ;)

This is, of course, dependant on me finding my microphone >_>;
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on April 02, 2007, 08:19:32 AM
All we need at the moment are Dunedain/Arnor Knights battle voices and a few more specific elven voices. The rest is pretty much covered already.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on April 02, 2007, 10:32:16 AM
Well, come to think of it, we could use more harad babbling as well. We dont have easterlings either afaik.  The current harad babble we have is good in tone but way too long. Cant really use it as a combat cry as its a victory sort of noise but it sounds like they are all trying to give speeches on the harad education system. Maybe each harad battle is followed by an election.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Sheogorath on April 02, 2007, 02:50:32 PM
I'll see what I can do for your Easterlings.

What sort of tone/accent/etc are you looking for your Arnorian/Dunedain?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on April 02, 2007, 03:54:20 PM
I think plain english will do for the Dunedain, but I'm open to suggestions. I forgot we also need voices for the Corsairs.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Napoletano on April 02, 2007, 06:22:45 PM
Greetings.

I am native Italian and I live in Brazil. Thus, I speak at very high levels Italian (of course) and Portuguese. I also have experience as a radio speaker and I sing as well :-) so if I can be of help please let me know.

Grazie :-) !
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: InvertedPantsMan on April 03, 2007, 02:20:09 PM
your english isn't that bad iether  :lol:
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Alec{zacool} on April 12, 2007, 06:18:33 AM
I can make some Orc uruk-hai shouts....
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on April 14, 2007, 07:15:20 AM
OK, we still need Dunland, Harad and Easterlings voices. Those of you willing to help, please check the first post for suggested lines, and PM me for details.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: averyware on April 18, 2007, 09:22:50 PM
id love to join the group from what ive seen myself it looks really good and put together as a whole for the game, BUT i dont think somethings need to more pretty. texture mostly.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Chilly5 on May 05, 2007, 03:43:45 PM
Does anyone know any Gaelic warcries?  The Dunlendings could use those.  After all, at Helm's Deep Gamling had to translate for the others.
I learned from the EB mod for rome total war that ancient celts cried "Abu!" or something before going into battle.  :P
I also love the actual warcry for barbarian factions in EB it's sortof an..."OuluOuluOluluOulu!!!"
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Bakustra on May 05, 2007, 07:31:52 PM
I can do quite a bit of voice inflection, add a few foreign accents-
but I have no Idea which to use for the these different races. (my apologize.)
PM me a script, and what to sound like, and I would be more than happy to lend a talent.
(p.s. this mod is excellent!)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: andhar on June 20, 2007, 02:32:16 AM
I don't know if it's possible due to the original game... but... it's just my feeling or wargs neigh???  ::) Wouldn't be possible for them to gnarl and howl? I'd appreciate it very much - especially when I charge one of those filthy curs with my spear...  >:D
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on June 20, 2007, 02:39:53 AM
I don't know if it's possible due to the original game... but... it's just my feeling or wargs neigh???  ::) Wouldn't be possible for them to gnarl and howl? I'd appreciate it very much - especially when I charge one of those filthy curs with my spear...  >:D

Not possible. We'll have to wait for Armagan and team to expand the M&B sound capabilities.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: rileslek on July 05, 2007, 04:28:47 AM
I worked a little more on Helm's Deep today - I'll have a preliminary screeny up before too long.


YAMMI!


NOOB QUESTION: Will we be able to walk on teh glorious Deeping Wall?

Also..

I command you to make a singleplayer mission involving thousands of orcses and Uruk-Hai (coming in wavess, of course :P) in front of the walls of the Hornburg! :D:D:D:D


...... But it isn't possible, is it? :(
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Daergar on July 05, 2007, 04:36:59 AM
I command you to make a singleplayer mission involving thousands of orcses and Uruk-Hai (coming in wavess, of course :P) in front of the walls of the Hornburg! :D:D:D:D
...... But it isn't possible, is it? :(

Actually, if you look at the mini-mod 300, having a continuous spawn of allies and enemies fighting at the same tactical map without end in sight seems quite feasible. Also, while I haven't tried the latest version yet due to waiting for the addition of RCM, the Gauntlet seem to be same thing, sort of, so yeah, I'd think it's possible. Not sure how much fun it would be though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 05, 2007, 04:42:16 AM
well, the battle of Helm's Deep I would definitely want to play one day. Or the battle of Pelennor fields. I would. And I think it is doable..to some extent. But I think custom battles won't come until the next MaB version is out (cause it should have some support for it.) Either I would like to see those battles as Historical battles (thinking RTW), or incorporated in the main part of the mod and somehow scripted in the new war system..

edit: yup, Blade's right. Move to suggestion or something, guys. :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 05, 2007, 04:46:47 AM
Guys, if you're not offering to help developing this mod in some way, please don't post here. If everybody starts posting their questions and discussing the mod here, we may miss help offers from potential contributers.

Thanks.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: mtarini on July 05, 2007, 09:46:26 AM
Is it just me, or Gondorians shout "Faramir" a lot, and never "Boromir" (TLD 2.3.1)?

BTW: if possible, "Boromir" should be used quite more frequently than "Faramir", right?


At least in the previous versions (2.2) elves shout with low, guttural voices. The performance itself is great, but very savage souding, very mannish.
That puzzles me.

[dwarven_partisian_mode:begin]
We all known elves are pussies and quite possibly gay and should all sound like little well-behaved ladies.
[dwarven_partisian_mode:end]

No, seriously, I can't picture in my mind how on (middle) earth an elf should sound like.
Sure, their voices are probably described as melodic, musical, clear sounding, handsome, elegant, but... in a battlefield? Even worse: what is the sound of an elf dieing, or in pain?

[dwarven_partisian_mode:begin]
"Oh noes! My haircut!"?
[dwarven_partisian_mode:end]

Any ideas? I don't have a clue.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 05, 2007, 09:53:45 AM
I would say...like a singer. You know, a manly one, who has a strong, yet melodic and pleasant voice.

(my elves are squeeking like squirrels, but DaBlade thinks it's caused by the sound variation option..)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 10:13:33 AM
Is it just me, or Gondorians shout "Faramir" a lot, and never "Boromir" (TLD 2.3.1)?

BTW: if possible, "Boromir" should be used quite more frequently than "Faramir", right?


At least in the previous versions (2.2) elves shout with low, guttural voices. The performance itself is great, but very savage souding, very mannish.
That puzzles me.

[dwarven_partisian_mode:begin]
We all known elves are pussies and quite possibly gay and should all sound like little well-behaved ladies.
[dwarven_partisian_mode:end]

No, seriously, I can't picture in my mind how on (middle) earth an elf should sound like.
Sure, their voices are probably described as melodic, musical, clear sounding, handsome, elegant, but... in a battlefield? Even worse: what is the sound of an elf dieing, or in pain?

[dwarven_partisian_mode:begin]
"Oh noes! My haircut!"?
[dwarven_partisian_mode:end]

Any ideas? I don't have a clue.

I agree that some of the elf voices sound out of character.

The dave carlson or whatever guy has an amazing voice (I probably would never have submitted anything if he had had his voice out there back when I did, because it's embarassing to hear my voice after hearing his great stuff) but he sounds kinda like some scotch drinking 70s rockstar or something.

It also gets a little weird because in most battles both sides are using his same voice.

Maybe someone with a good elven voice (that isn't gay, but is much more refined) will come along. Shouting those elven words seemed incredibly difficult to me. Most of them just don't make good warcries, I think. I was surprised that anyone was able to make them sound like them at all, so I think there is a skill to that aspect of it in addition to having a good voice for it.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 10:42:59 AM
Well, I think I might work on some scenes a bit tonight- just arranging them, not modeling anything. Mostly I get tired of not being able to figure out what merchant in the camps does what, so maybe I can figure out a way to change that.

I figure put some crates with a few weapons on top for the weapons sellers, similar for the armor guys. Always put the tavern guys buy a fire and/or a tent, and put the general goods guy by a wagon with a horse next to it or some meat and stuff.

I woud change all the text by faction too since the native stuff is lame even in its own right let alone for orcs and such, but of course I don't have the source.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: mtarini on July 05, 2007, 11:03:24 AM
bryce and merlkir: I agree...

Quote
I would say...like a singer. You know, a manly one, who has a strong, yet melodic and pleasant voice.

Maybe Napoletano (the Italian-Brasilian singer radio-speaker that posted earlier) can give it a try?
(Italian, Brasilian, male, singer. There *might* be quite a match with what you say. Just might.)

Napoletano?

(still, how does a distressed elf dies or suffers? Maybe just silently? Or whispering some conincise wisdom? or whispering? Grunts or death-rattles seem out of place, but what to use instead?).

Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 05, 2007, 12:41:20 PM
I love the voices David Carlson made for the elves, although I didn't dislike some of the previous ones. Napoletano sent me some (Dunlending?) voices, but I thought he didn't have the right kind of voice for them. I would be happy to hear some elven voices from him, I think we could allways add some variety.

Merlkir, you mean you didn't try it with sound variation off yet? :P What are you waiting for?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 05, 2007, 12:51:38 PM
David Carlson is a god. He's one of the guys you want to chain in the basement to make a mod. He made up many of those phrases as well..

My favorite is, "The storm and the sea demon!!!".
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 05, 2007, 12:55:21 PM
I've never heard that one! :D or I haven't noticed.

Man, I want the dunnish to shout: "Kill the strawheads!!!" :)  (maybe it's time to pull out the mike and give my terrible acting another chance ;))
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Apex on July 05, 2007, 01:26:54 PM
I finally got my proper microphone back from a buddy I loaned it out to, so I'll be able to try some stuff out in the next couple days.  I whipped up a horn sound and send it over to DaBlade, though it seems horns are somewhat of an abundance...

Merlkir, what kind of accent are you thinking of for the Dunlanders?  I have it in my head that they're a strong barbarian, maybe Gaul-like sort but I'm not quite sure what they should really sound like.  At any rate I'll do some various neutral sounding stuff, some of the things DaBlade suggested and see about writing up some lines as well.  I know I can write pretty well...but as for voice acting, we'll see :)

Try either some kind of gutteral barbaric sound like gaul or maybe a gaelic thing. Send any samples you do to dablade, he coordinates all the sounds. Thanks. -aw
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 05, 2007, 01:36:27 PM
yeah, I thought of a "barbaric" accent like they use in RTW...;)

I would personally love for all the formations orders to be shouted out. So far there are three of five? or maybe four..
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Apex on July 05, 2007, 01:57:12 PM
yeah, I thought of a "barbaric" accent like they use in RTW...;)

I would personally love for all the formations orders to be shouted out. So far there are three of five? or maybe four..

Yeah I'd like the orders to all be voiced as well, though it'd be even better if I could figure out how to consistently use the formations correctly...  :-[

I could do order voices I think, but I'll have to test how my microphone holds up to being yelled at.  I might hurt its feelings.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 02:03:59 PM
yeah, I thought of a "barbaric" accent like they use in RTW...;)

I would personally love for all the formations orders to be shouted out. So far there are three of five? or maybe four..

It's better not to put words in the PC's mouth unless you are going to go with full voice acting. You'd also need difference voices for each sex and faction...and even if you found people to do it and they were good, it would take a lot of space.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Apex on July 05, 2007, 02:12:11 PM
It's better not to put words in the PC's mouth unless you are going to go with full voice acting. You'd also need difference voices for each sex and faction...and even if you found people to do it and they were good, it would take a lot of space.

I see what you mean, but some feedback should be present I think.  It wouldn't have to be a voice of course, but in the thick of a battle, getting shot at and fending off blows it's tough to glance over to the text display to see what orders you're fumbling with.  Or maybe I just suck at it.  At any rate you've got a solid point, as much as I'd like voices.

I'd suggest maybe using a different animation for each, if possible.  e.g. ranks formation is the current left-slash, lines could be right-slash...I don't know what would really work though to be honest.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 02:22:45 PM
It's better not to put words in the PC's mouth unless you are going to go with full voice acting. You'd also need difference voices for each sex and faction...and even if you found people to do it and they were good, it would take a lot of space.

I see what you mean, but some feedback should be present I think.  It wouldn't have to be a voice of course, but in the thick of a battle, getting shot at and fending off blows it's tough to glance over to the text display to see what orders you're fumbling with.  Or maybe I just suck at it.  At any rate you've got a solid point, as much as I'd like voices.

I'd suggest maybe using a different animation for each, if possible.  e.g. ranks formation is the current left-slash, lines could be right-slash...I don't know what would really work though to be honest.

I think you can do that in next version. Sounds pretty good. I don't use the formation stuff anyhow, but it would be pretty need to see.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 05, 2007, 02:28:38 PM
Im not sure whats being discussed here, there are already voice commands for the pc when he issues orders. One set for men, one for elves, and one for orcs. Am I missing something?

The animation is already there for the execution animation when orders go out.  Wouldnt be hard to make a unique one for each order but Im not in the mood to jiggle with that routine atm.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 02:29:26 PM

Man, I want the dunnish to shout: "Kill the strawheads!!!" :)  (maybe it's time to pull out the mike and give my terrible acting another chance ;))

Me too.

I put it out there but it didn't get picked up. I thought  I had a few good ones for every faction, but the couple I actually know were from me sucked compared to the other voices oit there. Oh well, I tried I guess.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 05, 2007, 02:54:08 PM
We still need good Dunlending voices, if anyone is willing to make them. ;)

Bryce, I think most of your voices lack intesity, they don't sound like you were in a battle (IMHO). But that doesn't mean you can't make them if you're willing to work on it. ;) And we're using some of the stuff you made in the current version.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 05, 2007, 04:24:48 PM
We still need good Dunlending voices, if anyone is willing to make them. ;)

Bryce, I think most of your voices lack intesity, they don't sound like you were in a battle (IMHO). But that doesn't mean you can't make them if you're willing to work on it. ;) And we're using some of the stuff you made in the current version.

For some reason the mic seems to filter my voice. It sounds way too 'clean' on the recording. I think something funny is going on.

Maybe I will give it another shot at some point and instead of trying to do various voice just go for raw and intense. I sent over uncut stuff so I apologize you had to wade through a ton of crap. Next time I will prune it out more.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Elara on July 05, 2007, 05:09:22 PM
Possibly stupid question since I don't see any females in battle...but do you need women's voices?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 05, 2007, 06:48:13 PM
Absolutely. We could use female order commands for the player. They currently say nothing when orders are issued.

Human and Elf if possible.  For the human just repeat what the male voice says or something like it. For the elf you would probably need a copy of the elvish saying.  If you get a chance do some samples for the human orders and send them to dablade.  If those work out, Ill dig up the old elvish phrases we gave to David Carlson.

Thanks.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 08, 2007, 05:21:04 PM
I made this model of Hornburg the other day (i was bored)

just if anyone could find it useful  ::)  (It isn't, actually, ready yet, but almost)

Will we be able to walk on teh glorious Deeping Wall?
I don't know about the current helm's deep, but I made mine so that player can walk around a bit
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/syvnne.jpg)

I'm also working on some dwarven stuff, here's prewiev:  (that helmet is quickly made :( , it will belong to a dwarf statue )

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/dwarfstuff.jpg)


EDIT: Here's the statue
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/statue.jpg)



Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Sunhawken on July 09, 2007, 12:41:55 AM
But aren't all the  dwarvens dead? Except for that dwarven  guy  in the movie?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Irenicuz on July 09, 2007, 02:06:16 AM
But aren't all the  dwarvens dead? Except for that dwarven  guy  in he movie?

Nope. The Moria dwarfs/dwarves are dead. The leader of moria dwarfs left others to return to moria. Gimli and his father (i think) Gloin (the old whitebearded dwarf seen in rivendell (the movie)) were representatives of other dwarfs.

Sry for offtopic by the way, and  i am not sure about details.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 09, 2007, 05:33:26 AM
Hey Irenicuz, those look good.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 09, 2007, 07:07:45 AM
yeah, nice, I like the statue a lot.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: mtarini on July 09, 2007, 07:52:55 AM
About elven voices: I don't fully understand what is meant by the posts about them (after mine).
Can anyone kindly spell it out for me?

- did they change from 2.2.1 to 2.3.x? (I guess not, but I cannot check this out myself before another week)

- AW awarded to David Carlson, who made most (all?) voices - including elves - for 2.2.1 a well deserved "god" status;
  true, his performance as a voice recorder and actor are amazingly professional and inspired.
  But, does this mean that current elven voices are not  perceived as being too rude, guttural, "barbaric" or otherwise unfit for elves?
  ((but, when I suggested that the elves should probably sound different, by no mean I intended criticizing David's great work!
  Beside: as noticed already, variety in voices is a very good thing, and useful game-wise too.))

- Did Napoletano try it out, or even, does he know that we are discussing this?

Yeah, we can always use more variety, I agree. I think most of the David Carlson stuff is in 2.3 and not 2.2.1 though.  Some elves are buzvonlurt, some are davide carlson. The elven formation orders voice is Carlson.  Unfortunately, voice contributors are a pretty rare commodity.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 09, 2007, 02:14:16 PM
I haven't heard from Napoletano lately, I have no idea if he checks the forum.

I don't think the current elven voices are too rude, guttural or barbaric, but I guess that depends on what you think elves should sound like.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Apex on July 09, 2007, 02:50:52 PM
Hope I'm not too late to the party.  It turns out the headset I've been using for general voice chat has absolutely terrible recording quality, so I bought myself a cheap but effective clip-on mic to record with.  I'd be more than happy to do what I can.

I'd likely be best suited for general Gondor voices, possibly Rohan as well.  I'd love to do character voices if that becomes a possibility in the future for spoken dialog, but until then DaBlade has me assigned to Nazgul warning cries :)  Along those lines I could do encounter voices if you don't have any/too many of those available.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help out with.  I can mix up sound effects, horn calls and the like as well...though they seem to be well stocked as it is.

Edit:  I like the sound of merchant voiceovers...that should give me something to do while I'm stuck indoors.  I plan to take my laptop and microphone out in the forest to do some recording tomorrow (or sometime this week at any rate), but until then I think it best not to incur the wrath of the rest of the house with my wailing :)  I've started jotting down and recording merchant parts, and some of them are quite humorous (though it's debatable whether it's the material or my voice causing it...).  Any need for general ambiance or things I could record in a forest?  Wood cracking, walking through leaves and brush, stuff like that?  If I'm going to do it I might as well go all-out.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 09, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
Hey Apex, we could use more Gondor voices too :green:

We're not using encounter or character voices yet, maybe in the future. I'd love to have voices for the merchants as well, but it will be a lot of work to do them all, and we'd need several male and female contributers, so we haven't started on it yet.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: jeansberg on July 10, 2007, 02:24:09 AM
If there is something that needs replacing it's some of the Rohan vocals. Some of them sound like they were recorded with a very low-quality microphone. I takes you out of the game when you can hear the surrounding noise of a vocal sample. It's like hearing someone speaking through a wormhole from another dimension.

I'm sure all the vocals have been processed thoroughly, but there is only so much you can do with a bad source.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ron Losey on July 10, 2007, 03:22:01 AM
If you've really got the capability to do ambient noise, we could use a horse/wolf walking noise that didn't sound so much like the clop of a horse hoof.  It would, of course, only be a patch until we could get separate sound sources for each type of mount (hopefully next M&B version).  However, it might stop the wolves from sounding like they wear horseshoes, at least for now.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Irenicuz on July 10, 2007, 03:49:19 AM
These are Jakkaru's work, I sadly don't have such skills. I tried sth a few months ago, making a rapier-like sword but results were rather.... i'm not sure if funny is strong enough word :D.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Jairion on July 10, 2007, 06:11:08 AM
This doesn't matter anything, but...

...If I wasn't too lazy to buy a good recording mic, I would be really thrilled to make any voiceouts in this mod. (Though, I don't know if I would qualify for anything  :P) Especially the elven voiceouts, since my native language is Finnish, and thus I have no problems pronounciating the elven words, compared to english, that is. (At least this is the impression that I've received over my lifetime)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ron Losey on July 10, 2007, 06:18:38 AM
Finnish ... Elvish ... Martian ... Yeah, I could see the similarities.  ::)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 10, 2007, 08:41:17 AM
If there is something that needs replacing it's some of the Rohan vocals. Some of them sound like they were recorded with a very low-quality microphone. I takes you out of the game when you can hear the surrounding noise of a vocal sample. It's like hearing someone speaking through a wormhole from another dimension.

I'm sure all the vocals have been processed thoroughly, but there is only so much you can do with a bad source.

Yeah, not all files had the same quality, and I couldn't do better for some of them. But the voice acting was good, that's why we're using them.


If you've really got the capability to do ambient noise, we could use a horse/wolf walking noise that didn't sound so much like the clop of a horse hoof.  It would, of course, only be a patch until we could get separate sound sources for each type of mount (hopefully next M&B version).  However, it might stop the wolves from sounding like they wear horseshoes, at least for now.


We'd still have the wargs making all kinds of horse sounds; there are more than the horse walking/runing sounds. Currently we only have one set of sounds for all mounts in M&B, be it horse wolf or mumakil :P Let's hope Armagan and team will upgrade the sound engine at some point.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 10, 2007, 09:07:15 AM
Jakkaru? Who is he? I also like that statue a lot.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 10, 2007, 09:10:08 AM
I made this model of Hornburg the other day (i was bored)

just if anyone could find it useful  ::)  (It isn't, actually, ready yet, but almost)

Will we be able to walk on teh glorious Deeping Wall?
I don't know about the current helm's deep, but I made mine so that player can walk around a bit
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/syvnne.jpg)I'm also working on some dwarven stuff, here's prewiev:  (that helmet is quickly made :( , it will belong to a dwarf statue )

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/dwarfstuff.jpg)



Jakkaru is this guy.

Hey, I really like your helms deep. Focus on that if you like and Ill see if we can use it for one of the hornburg rescue sequences.  The running around on top one, and maybe the wall one if it works out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 10, 2007, 09:15:12 AM
 :green:
Nice to see that people like them  ::)

The Hornburg will be ready in no time, as soon as i get my sketchup working properly again.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 10, 2007, 10:58:04 AM
Sorry Jakkaru, I guess I was tired and got confused. Very nice stuff.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: jeansberg on July 10, 2007, 11:31:27 AM
Finnish ... Elvish ... Martian ... Yeah, I could see the similarities.  ::)
Finnish and Elvish are way more similar than English and Elvish.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: MastaSpoofa on July 10, 2007, 11:42:54 AM
If you've really got the capability to do ambient noise, we could use a horse/wolf walking noise that didn't sound so much like the clop of a horse hoof.  It would, of course, only be a patch until we could get separate sound sources for each type of mount (hopefully next M&B version).  However, it might stop the wolves from sounding like they wear horseshoes, at least for now.


just FYI someone asked the dev's of M&B about that and he said not this version.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 10, 2007, 11:53:04 AM
Yeah, I believe it was Merlkir. We'll just have to wait and enjoy what we have in the meantime...
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 10, 2007, 11:59:25 AM
If you've really got the capability to do ambient noise, we could use a horse/wolf walking noise that didn't sound so much like the clop of a horse hoof.  It would, of course, only be a patch until we could get separate sound sources for each type of mount (hopefully next M&B version).  However, it might stop the wolves from sounding like they wear horseshoes, at least for now.


just FYI someone asked the dev's of M&B about that and he said not this version.

How hard is it to make an ambient noise trigger  ::)

Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 10, 2007, 12:25:52 PM
hm, we could have the wargs howling, that would be nice. But that's as far as we get with ambient sound triggers, nay?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 10, 2007, 12:37:32 PM
hm, we could have the wargs howling, that would be nice. But that's as far as we get with ambient sound triggers, nay?

Oh, that's not ambient sound....

I did not read the preceding posts.

Ambient sound is quite possible, though some support ingame for it would be nice.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 10, 2007, 12:56:56 PM
ok, I'm a bit confused. :)
Would it be possible if during a fight (or at it's start) with some wargs a howling sound would be heard?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: bryce on July 10, 2007, 01:08:24 PM
ok, I'm a bit confused. :)
Would it be possible if during a fight (or at it's start) with some wargs a howling sound would be heard?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 11, 2007, 01:49:31 PM
no problem friend ^^
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 11, 2007, 02:08:43 PM
We spread their water on the desert.  :lol:

edit--oh his name is not quite the same. Jacarutu is the place where the evil, water-stealing fremen come from in the Dune stories..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 11, 2007, 07:52:54 PM
OK, now I see what you were talking about :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: rileslek on July 12, 2007, 02:26:31 AM
I made this model of Hornburg the other day (i was bored)

just if anyone could find it useful  ::)  (It isn't, actually, ready yet, but almost)

Will we be able to walk on teh glorious Deeping Wall?
I don't know about the current helm's deep, but I made mine so that player can walk around a bit
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/syvnne.jpg)


Hey, I really like your helms deep. Focus on that if you like and Ill see if we can use it for one of the hornburg rescue sequences.  The running around on top one, and maybe the wall one if it works out.


...... Rescue sequences?...... I say... ALL sequences... This Helm's Deep rocks. If you could make the Hornburg like... hmm how to say it.... If you could make it as a "Town" area. As "Enter the town square", you would enter the Hornburg. For Deeping Wall I don't know, but it would be great.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 13, 2007, 04:21:32 AM
 :) that was close AW, actually Jakkaru, is japanese and it means "Jackal"

sry for off-topic ^^

the hornburg is ready as soon as i get it exported to another form....

EDIT: And, if you dont have too much modellers already, i can work with other things too:
- dwarven props, ruined halls, moria things
- Gondor buildings, Osgiliath
- palisade walls, outposts, Rohan buildings
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 13, 2007, 04:39:57 AM
if you still need voice-actors, i can help, just tell me what i should do  ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 13, 2007, 07:09:49 AM
yeah, if you're going to give the rohan, gondor buildings and moria a try, feel free to ask me for advice :D no, not advice. But referrence pictures I could find for you. Or paint some concepts.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: DaBlade on July 13, 2007, 10:18:17 AM
if you still need voice-actors, i can help, just tell me what i should do  ;)

Wanna try some battle voices? PM me for any questions you may have.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 13, 2007, 10:52:27 AM
please do, especially for Moria.... I think I can figure Osgiliath out by myself
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 13, 2007, 11:01:10 AM
ok, Osgilliath is handled well in the movies, I suggest you use that and Lee and Howe's paintings as referrence. Moria however I didn't like that much. Too rough to be a dwarven masterpiece..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Jakkaru on July 13, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
hmm... i'll try to work with rohanish and gondorian buildings first then...

and i was wondering, isn't there a ruined fortress on the western side of the river in osgiliath?
Could it be used as the "castle" area of Osgiliath?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed
Post by: Merlkir on July 13, 2007, 12:20:32 PM
For Rohan villages, use longhouses. Viking, anglo saxon stuff..See what you can find.

And I apologize for being useless, but after trying to sketch Moria, it turned to be a totally differend kind of picture ;)
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: mtarini on July 15, 2007, 12:11:37 PM
Not only warcries!

It would be cool to have "greeting sentences": concise sentences, uttered by the speakers, you would hear on meeting a group on the map.

You know how in the native version (at least, a few versions ago) when you met, say, pirates, they would say "Your money... or your life!"?
The text you read in the dialog box was different (quite longer and more detailed), but that quick spoken sentence you heard gave away the general sense of the situation in a very immediate way. Plus, it gave a thrill (especially when they catched you and you hoped otherwise).
I liked it.

For example, we could hear sentences like...

as an orc meeting:
- fellow orcs:
   "What, maggot?" "What?"  "You still around?"
- enemy men
  "Now you pay for your deeds!"  "Away from our Land!" "Foul creatures!"  "Gondor (Rohan) shall prevail!" ... others?
- enemy men supply/prisoner trains (and agents)
  "Back off!" "Back off, monster!"
- elves:
  "This is where it ends", "<usual incomprehensible elven gibberish>" ... others?
- farmers:
  "Mercy!" (by the way farmers should sound more terrified and less bold and aggressive in the dialog text as well)

as a free man meeting:
- allied armed group:
  "Hail!", "Greetings!", "Hooo! <or however you spell the sound you make to stop your horse, this for mounted allies>"
- elves
  "Dawn will come again", "<other elven gibberish>"
- orks:
  "Pray for death!", "I'll feast on your bones!", "Submit to Mordor!" (to Saruman), "We are the doom of men!" "Men are weak!" "Man meat! Good!"
   "I'll drink your blood!", "You are all doomed!" (probably this is too many variants already)
- orks supply/prisoner trains (and agents)
  "Back off, rat!"

Just attempts, better sentences (and more specific to every faction or sub-faction) can surely be found.
The important thing is that they are very short (otherwise they quickly sound too repetitive) and communicate the situation effectively.

Ideally, sentences for hostile encounters should have more variants, as you are going to hear them a lot more often.

Admittedly this is a multiplication of the "voice needed" effort. Possible to do?
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 15, 2007, 03:06:39 PM
Yeah, there are some good ideas there. Dablade has been pushing for non-battle voices as well.  Maybe after we get the dunnish/eastering/harad polished off we can try to get some phrases put together.  Its incredibly hard to get voice people though.
Title: Re: TLD: voices needed
Post by: Sunhawken on July 16, 2007, 03:11:37 AM
What does a dunnish sound like?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: heavens_hitman on July 16, 2007, 06:04:49 PM
i willmake some shields, just tell me the name of em or describe in pm.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: RickiusMaximus on July 19, 2007, 09:22:08 AM
Is there still any requirement for Harad or Easterling voices? I have a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia- he could well be perfect for the bill!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on July 19, 2007, 09:30:23 AM
Is there still any requirement for Harad or Easterling voices? I have a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia- he could well be perfect for the bill!

there sure is ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on July 19, 2007, 11:01:48 AM
Is there still any requirement for Harad or Easterling voices? I have a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia- he could well be perfect for the bill!

If he could record some stuff for us I'd be glad to hear it.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Keinonen on July 21, 2007, 09:40:00 AM
I could do elven voices; I hail from Finland and after all Tolkien did imply Finnish phonetics into the elven language. My accent might come in handy.

I have an external microphone for camcorder(AZDEN ECZ-990) which I think is by all means proper for this type of soundrecording.

I could deliver a voice sample and also do other voices if needed. You ppl pm me if yo're interested, yes? 'Cause I am already.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on July 21, 2007, 11:02:01 AM
I could do elven voices; I hail from Finland and after all Tolkien did imply Finnish phonetics into the elven language. My accent might come in handy.

I have an external microphone for camcorder(AZDEN ECZ-990) which I think is by all means proper for this type of soundrecording.

I could deliver a voice sample and also do other voices if needed. You ppl pm me if yo're interested, yes? 'Cause I am already.

jeez, don't ask for permission  :) just make the samples and we'll see.

Please do. :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 21, 2007, 11:06:55 AM
Yeah, make some samples and send them to dablade.  There are some ideas on the first page or you could look at this link for elven phrase ideas:

We can always use a range of voices so even if a faction seems to have a few, anyone who thinks they might make good ones is welcome to give it a shot.

http://www.realelvish.net/sindarinphrasebook.php






Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Lorodim on July 24, 2007, 05:47:28 PM
@Jakkaru Your talking about Cair Andros
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ancientwanker on July 26, 2007, 07:52:24 PM
We've had some volunteers here lately but Dablade still has yet to get any new samples. Feel free to send him some if anyone is still interested.

In case anyone wants to try their hand at dwarvish war cries:
http://www.delving.com/helge.html
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/khuzdul.htm

Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-męnu!    ---Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you! (canon one)
Khazâd ai-męnu!                        ---The Dwarves are upon you!
Sigin-tarâg ai-męnu!                   ---The long beards are upon you!
Rukhs!                                     ---Orcs!
Uzbad Mahal                             ---Lord Aule

Yeah, and famous Iron Hills dwarf names as merlkir pointed out below:
Dain!
Thorin!
Gror!
Náin!

Or maybe variants with Uzbad as a prefix as that's the word for Lord.

Uzbad Dain
Uzbad Thorin
Uzbad Gror
Uzbad Nain

Not as fleshed out as the elvish with only about 30 known words so youll probably have to get creative for more. Might be a good to stick with gruff and accented english for any additional ones and just use these as the core pure dwarvish cries to build on.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on July 26, 2007, 08:39:51 PM
or you could try names, hm? Thoriiiiiin!!! Daaaaiiiin!! :) and so..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DarthLlama226 on July 26, 2007, 09:48:21 PM
Once I have the time tomorrow, I'd be happy to record some voices. I'll try my hand at some of the meeting voices. I'm not certain if I can imitate battle cries. I do have a question though: are you guys going to need different voices for the people of Lamedon and such? If so, what accent should they use?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Triglav on July 27, 2007, 04:00:55 AM
are you guys going to need different voices for the people of Lamedon and such? If so, what accent should they use?

They're hillbillies. I vote for hillbilly accent. 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Lorodim on July 27, 2007, 08:14:35 AM
who the hell are thse hillbelies?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DarthLlama226 on July 27, 2007, 12:40:22 PM
Pinnath Gelin auxilla, blackroot vale, lamedon auxilla and the lossanarch people are the people I was talking about. When I see clansman of Lamedon, all I can think of is Scots. No ideas for the other people. Perhaps you can get your wish of a hill-billy accent for one of them Trig.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on July 27, 2007, 02:16:53 PM
Feel free to PM me any time if you want to contribute with sounds/voices.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: bryce on July 27, 2007, 02:18:01 PM
are you guys going to need different voices for the people of Lamedon and such? If so, what accent should they use?

They're hillbillies. I vote for hillbilly accent. 

Most hillbilles are scottish.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on July 27, 2007, 11:36:08 PM
yeah, typical lamedonians ;) :D

http://www.lambcity.com/images/LCC%20Hillbilly%20weekend%202004/hillbilly11.jpg (http://www.lambcity.com/images/LCC%20Hillbilly%20weekend%202004/hillbilly11.jpg)
http://www.womensfunnyvideos.com/funny-pictures/hillbillyOveralls.jpg (http://www.womensfunnyvideos.com/funny-pictures/hillbillyOveralls.jpg)
http://tincantavern.com/db4/00334/tincantavern.com/_uimages/hillbilly.jpg (http://tincantavern.com/db4/00334/tincantavern.com/_uimages/hillbilly.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Lorodim on July 28, 2007, 03:38:13 AM
Hah!hope we don't have scots in the mbx :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Triglav on July 28, 2007, 01:41:20 PM
When I see clansman of Lamedon, all I can think of is Scots.

Really?
Why not Moldavians?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DarthLlama226 on July 28, 2007, 06:45:59 PM
Because I just watched Braveheart again.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on July 28, 2007, 07:53:17 PM
When I see clansman of Lamedon, all I can think of is Scots.

Really?
Why not Moldavians?

Um ... most of the world couldn't identify a Moldavian.  It's one of those "From where?" places.

The Uygur people of Xinjiang are the same deal in China.  That's "the sticks" in China, but not a place most people know anything about.

However, since the mod is in English, I would guess that the accent for backwater places should come from English-speaking backwater places ... and that pretty much leaves Scotland or Tennessee.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Triglav on July 29, 2007, 04:26:02 AM
Well, these aren't really my serious suggestions, just gripes I have with stereotypization, and since I've got a hangover today I'm just in a mood for a bit of complaining.

Um ... most of the world couldn't identify a Moldavian.  It's one of those "From where?" places.
The Uygur people of Xinjiang are the same deal in China.  That's "the sticks" in China, but not a place most people know anything about.

My point exactly. And it's exactly cause people don't know much, that most popular culture items today are such cliché bonanzas.

Quote
However, since the mod is in English, I would guess that the accent for backwater places should come from English-speaking backwater places

Noone had much of a problem in suggesting Easterlings some Eastern-European English accent and the Haradrim some Arabic English accent (again terribly cliché). Thus why not give Lamedonians a Nepalese or Tibetan or Swiss or Armenian or Norwegian or Peruvian English accent (being that they're all in the mountains as well)?

Quote
... and that pretty much leaves Scotland or Tennessee.

I'm definitely for Tennessee in that case.
Nothing against the Scots, mind you, they just got too much attention in computer games since Braveheart.
Heck if Mel Gibson made a spectacular movie about the historically much more important battle of Kosovo Polje in 1389 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo), between the Serbs and the Turks, which had important consequences for southern and central Europe for centuries, I'm certain we'd be seeing the Serbs as a playable faction in several medieval games that feature Scots now, and we'd have another reference for a rugged fighting nation to be used in mods like this one...

With a little googling history of all nations is available to people, so why is it that they're so eager to resort to the typical stereotype suggested by your average entertainment industry product...?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on July 29, 2007, 05:57:53 AM
With the memory of Milslovic's genocides fresh on a lot of people's minds and Muslim terrorism being all over the news, I don't think a movie featuring a battle between the Serbs and the Muslims would go over too well right now.  It would set about like if "Enemy at the Gates" had been released in the States during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Seriously, if you're worried about overused stereotypes, Tennessee as an example of potentially violent backwater places is probably overused too.  Everybody remember "Deliverance"?

Fact is, it would be hard to find too many regional characteristics of any area that have not been over-used in entertainment by someone.  Plus, it's easy to go with the places you know the most about.  Most of the historical M&B mods are falling into this pattern as well - ONR doing Japan, HW the Crusades, and Mesoamerica the Aztecs, because those are the best-known examples of each of their areas.  There are not major mods based around fighting in India, Malaysia, or Argentina, because everybody's reaction would be "Where?"   For that mater, and relevant to TLD, Tolkien used the most common perceptions of ancient warfare as well ... European weapons and equipment of about the time of the Crusades.

When we get custom skeletons working in the next M&B version, it might be fun to try to break this pattern and do something less well-known ... say, Medo-Persian Empire, featuring chariots and war elephants.  Something that would break from the common patterns, behaviors, and equipment profiles and get people into a very different mindset - equally diverse, but logically different.

Until then ... well, I guess we live with the stereotypes.  If you can't fight them, join them.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Lanky on July 31, 2007, 01:02:34 AM
I think that sticking with accents from the British isles is a good idea, considering Tolkien wrote the books with a sort of lamentation for a lack of real English mythology. Something like a Scottish  or Irish accent seems rather appropriate to me.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Stemmers? on July 31, 2007, 08:57:25 PM
I think that sticking with accents from the British isles is a good idea, considering Tolkien wrote the books with a sort of lamentation for a lack of real English mythology. Something like a Scottish  or Irish accent seems rather appropriate to me.

Seconded. Orcs can have American accents.  >:D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on August 01, 2007, 12:58:06 AM
I think that sticking with accents from the British isles is a good idea, considering Tolkien wrote the books with a sort of lamentation for a lack of real English mythology. Something like a Scottish  or Irish accent seems rather appropriate to me.

Seconded. Orcs can have American accents.  >:D

That could create a logical error.  The orcs are far better trained, equipped, and organized than I would expect from a bunch of Americans.   ::)

(And I was born there ...)

(But I didn't have to stay....)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Lorodim on August 02, 2007, 02:21:37 PM
then afro americans?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on August 02, 2007, 07:47:46 PM
then afro americans?

I don't think there is such a thing as an "Afro-American" accent.  Regardless of race in North America, educated people tend to have pretty standard English, and the uneducated tend to have strong accents characteristic of their region.  The black "Jive" dialect for any particular city is the same gutter dialect that you will hear in the slums of other ethnic groups in that city.

But I somehow don't think gutter slang would work out too well in a LOTR theme.  When the orc merchants start out with "Whaashu wan? ... Whaashu look'n at?   Ha ' chu  got uh problem?"

No.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Sunhawken on August 02, 2007, 08:18:27 PM
Can someone please tell me what a dunnish sounds like?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Stemmers? on August 02, 2007, 09:03:58 PM
then afro americans?
I don't think there is such a thing as an "Afro-American" accent.  Regardless of race in North America, educated people tend to have pretty standard English, and the uneducated tend to have strong accents characteristic of their region.  The black "Jive" dialect for any particular city is the same gutter dialect that you will hear in the slums of other ethnic groups in that city.

Uh...wrong on both points. I hate to break it to you, there is such a thing as an "African-American" dialect and it is very distinctive. This is coming from somebody who lives in a city and studies linguistics. It has some easily identifiable grammatical elements and phonological changes that set it apart from "standard" English, and you can be sure that it's different than any of the other "gutter" dialects in the city, never mind that you're using a pejorative term. Look here if you need more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

There's always some overlap of course, there always is between dialects in close proximity to each other, but there's no way you're telling me that a poor white Italian living in South Philadelphia speaks the same way as the black guy that lives in the apartment upstairs. It's just blatantly untrue.

You'd also be surprised at how differently educated people from different parts of the country speak. Americans find it hard to hear, but there's a difference between an educated Midwestern accent and a Northeastern accent, for example. Educated people use words that aren't "standard" English all the time, even if they don't know it -- ask an educated person in California what it means to "putz around", and see them look at you funny, then ask an educated person in Berks County, PA. It's a loan word from Pennsylvania German (or Yiddish, depending on whom you ask, but the meaning is VERY different  ;)), but none of the people in the area would know it because they've heard it used all their lives.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on August 02, 2007, 09:55:41 PM
I know what you're saying ... I'm from Oklahoma, myself (even though I haven't been back there in a while).  Some of the local words, especially place names, come from Cherokee or Seminole - and people from other parts of the country think everyone in Oklahoma speaks a dialect of Martian.

I just think that the race issue is highly over-rated in linguistic studies.  I know too many people of various races who sound too much alike - the better educated ones sounding like better educated people of other race groups, and the uneducated sounding too much like other uneducated people.  In Tulsa, Oklahoma, the black and white people sound very much the same, with the exception of tone of voice (caused by size and shape of the throat and tongue -  genetic variations, physical size, etc), which is usually not statistically very much, and the education level of the speaker.  The Spanish-speaking community sounds different, because of the influence of their other language, but that is not a race issue (as Spanish-speaking people tend to be ethnically diverse as well).

The variations from region to region (specific word use or details of pronunciation) strike me as relatively minor and unrelated to the question.  Every region has a few words that are unique to that area, in any language anywhere in the world.  Seldom do these differences add up to enough to represent a noticeable accent difference in short segments (as we would need for voice clips for a mod).  English does not really have any major "dialects" (that are uniformly incomprehensible to people of other regions), and although some of the regional accents are strong, it is minor compared to areas that really do have regional dialects (like China, where I live now).

Now, groups of immigrants who bring their own language will have a noticeable accent.  That is directly associated with the other language, just as people learning a second language will always have an accent.  But this does not really apply to the "Afro-American" referred to in the earlier post - most of them have been English-speaking for generations.

I suspect that grouping accents by race is something that was done to cover for various inequalities and racial conflict ... because it does not happen everywhere.  And I would prefer if they were not grouped by race - I have some extremely black friends who do not sound like that, and although they are good-natured about this sort of thing, I feel offended for them.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the earlier topic - accents taken from the corruption of any language in poor urban environments are not going to be suitable for the tone of TLD.  Any attempt to copy these is going to come off as racist and insulting.  Foreign-sounding accents for people who should have their own languages would be one thing (since language problems are a fact of life).  Severely corrupted variations of the common speech are going to communicate something that I don't think we want to say.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Stemmers? on August 03, 2007, 12:43:11 AM

I just think that the race issue is highly over-rated in linguistic studies.  I know too many people of various races who sound too much alike - the better educated ones sounding like better educated people of other race groups, and the uneducated sounding too much like other uneducated people.  In Tulsa, Oklahoma, the black and white people sound very much the same, with the exception of tone of voice (caused by size and shape of the throat and tongue -  genetic variations, physical size, etc), which is usually not statistically very much, and the education level of the speaker.  The Spanish-speaking community sounds different, because of the influence of their other language, but that is not a race issue (as Spanish-speaking people tend to be ethnically diverse as well).


I have to disagree with you there. Language is simply too complex to be seen as simply a socioeconomic issue. The fact is, language is important to developing ethnic consciousness. Think about it -- most countries have a dominant national language that contributes to their sense of shared identity, and in politically stable areas borders tend to run roughly divide one group of language speakers from another. There's a question of causality, whether political power tends to shape languages or whether languages tend to divide people politically, but I think in the age of nationalism, it's reasonable to assume there's at least some of the latter going on.

In the United States, especially, where race is (unfortunately) so intrinsically related to social class, language tends to motivate racial consciousness quite strongly. I don't know how it works in Oklahoma, but in inner-city African-American communities, language is extremely closely related to racial identity. I'll give a personal example: my girlfriend, who is black, lived in Chicago for most of her life. Her mother, though poor and relatively uneducated, was a very proper woman and taught her to speak standard English. in school, she was stigmatized by most of the other children, who thought she "talked like a white girl", and as a result she's developed very mixed feeling about her closeness with the black community. In her case, because she didn't speak the same native dialect as the other people of her race, she was seen by other African-Americans as "not fully black". It's a side of racism you don't often see: communities become so insular that any attempt to assimilate into the society at large is seen as a betrayal of your roots and met with extreme hostility.


The variations from region to region (specific word use or details of pronunciation) strike me as relatively minor and unrelated to the question.  Every region has a few words that are unique to that area, in any language anywhere in the world.  Seldom do these differences add up to enough to represent a noticeable accent difference in short segments (as we would need for voice clips for a mod).  English does not really have any major "dialects" (that are uniformly incomprehensible to people of other regions), and although some of the regional accents are strong, it is minor compared to areas that really do have regional dialects (like China, where I live now).

Now, groups of immigrants who bring their own language will have a noticeable accent.  That is directly associated with the other language, just as people learning a second language will always have an accent.  But this does not really apply to the "Afro-American" referred to in the earlier post - most of them have been English-speaking for generations.


First off: there are no universally accepted criteria from distinguishing a "dialect" from a "language". From what I've heard about the various forms of Chinese, and how they are mutually unintelligible, I think that most linguists would classify them as entirely separate (although related) languages.

African-American Vernacular English is clearly mutually intelligible with English, so most linguists wouldn't classify is as a separate language. But the differences between standard English and AAVE are significant. Not only are there differences in phonology (pronunciation), there are also differences in grammatical structure. For example, AAVE often drops the copula (in English, the verb "to be") between words, so that something like "I am hungry" becomes "I hungry". In fact, the entire tense/aspect system is completely different from standard English. Read the article if you need a full rundown, but AAVE is about as strong a case for a real dialect that there is in American English.


I suspect that grouping accents by race is something that was done to cover for various inequalities and racial conflict ... because it does not happen everywhere.  And I would prefer if they were not grouped by race - I have some extremely black friends who do not sound like that, and although they are good-natured about this sort of thing, I feel offended for them.

--------------------------------------------------------------


I agree with you that there are many times when grouping by race is entirely inappropriate. But I do not think that linguists have any vast right-wing conspiracy to "cover up for various inequalities and racial conflict". It is a simple fact that AAVE is spoken almost exclusively by African-Americans, and the fact that the linguistic community refers to it in that way is a result of that fact.

Of course, not every black person speaks the dialect. There are of course many African-Americans who choose to speak standard English, as you and I both have mentioned. But that fact that you are embarrassed about the stereotype shows the negative attitude that our society has toward the AAVE dialect in the first place, and I think reflects the underlying racial tensions in American society in general. The fact that AAVE even exists is a direct result of slavery and the fact that blacks were a socially isolated group up until the middle of the 20th century. So I don't think you can blame the linguists for highlighting a reality which is caused by the prejudices of American society.

I would also like to point out that many educated African-Americans do choose to speak AAVE, even though they know how to speak standard English perfectly well. Many see it as a positive part of their cultural identity. It all boils down to lifestyle, personal choice and the people you tend to hang out with.


Back to the earlier topic - accents taken from the corruption of any language in poor urban environments are not going to be suitable for the tone of TLD.  Any attempt to copy these is going to come off as racist and insulting.  Foreign-sounding accents for people who should have their own languages would be one thing (since language problems are a fact of life).  Severely corrupted variations of the common speech are going to communicate something that I don't think we want to say.


I do agree with you in spirit -- anything with racially charged undertones is inappropriate for this mod -- but I am concerned by your choice of words. There is *no* evidence that any dialect is a "corruption" of the common speech.  That's a myth perpetuated by pedagogues that reinforces the same prejudicial attitudes that you are claiming to be against. By writing them off as "debased" forms of English, people tend to minimize the fact that dialects like AAVE often have a long history of development that is quite different than standard English and are important to their community of speakers.

/rant over
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Sunhawken on August 03, 2007, 02:00:08 AM

I just think that the race issue is highly over-rated in linguistic studies.  I know too many people of various races who sound too much alike - the better educated ones sounding like better educated people of other race groups, and the uneducated sounding too much like other uneducated people.  In Tulsa, Oklahoma, the black and white people sound very much the same, with the exception of tone of voice (caused by size and shape of the throat and tongue -  genetic variations, physical size, etc), which is usually not statistically very much, and the education level of the speaker.  The Spanish-speaking community sounds different, because of the influence of their other language, but that is not a race issue (as Spanish-speaking people tend to be ethnically diverse as well).


I have to disagree with you there. Language is simply too complex to be seen as simply a socioeconomic issue. The fact is, language is important to developing ethnic consciousness. Think about it -- most countries have a dominant national language that contributes to their sense of shared identity, and in politically stable areas borders tend to run roughly divide one group of language speakers from another. There's a question of causality, whether political power tends to shape languages or whether languages tend to divide people politically, but I think in the age of nationalism, it's reasonable to assume there's at least some of the latter going on.

In the United States, especially, where race is (unfortunately) so intrinsically related to social class, language tends to motivate racial consciousness quite strongly. I don't know how it works in Oklahoma, but in inner-city African-American communities, language is extremely closely related to racial identity. I'll give a personal example: my girlfriend, who is black, lived in Chicago for most of her life. Her mother, though poor and relatively uneducated, was a very proper woman and taught her to speak standard English. in school, she was stigmatized by most of the other children, who thought she "talked like a white girl", and as a result she's developed very mixed feeling about her closeness with the black community. In her case, because she didn't speak the same native dialect as the other people of her race, she was seen by other African-Americans as "not fully black". It's a side of racism you don't often see: communities become so insular that any attempt to assimilate into the society at large is seen as a betrayal of your roots and met with extreme hostility.


The variations from region to region (specific word use or details of pronunciation) strike me as relatively minor and unrelated to the question.  Every region has a few words that are unique to that area, in any language anywhere in the world.  Seldom do these differences add up to enough to represent a noticeable accent difference in short segments (as we would need for voice clips for a mod).  English does not really have any major "dialects" (that are uniformly incomprehensible to people of other regions), and although some of the regional accents are strong, it is minor compared to areas that really do have regional dialects (like China, where I live now).

Now, groups of immigrants who bring their own language will have a noticeable accent.  That is directly associated with the other language, just as people learning a second language will always have an accent.  But this does not really apply to the "Afro-American" referred to in the earlier post - most of them have been English-speaking for generations.


First off: there are no universally accepted criteria from distinguishing a "dialect" from a "language". From what I've heard about the various forms of Chinese, and how they are mutually unintelligible, I think that most linguists would classify them as entirely separate (although related) languages.

African-American Vernacular English is clearly mutually intelligible with English, so most linguists wouldn't classify is as a separate language. But the differences between standard English and AAVE are significant. Not only are there differences in phonology (pronunciation), there are also differences in grammatical structure. For example, AAVE often drops the copula (in English, the verb "to be") between words, so that something like "I am hungry" becomes "I hungry". In fact, the entire tense/aspect system is completely different from standard English. Read the article if you need a full rundown, but AAVE is about as strong a case for a real dialect that there is in American English.


I suspect that grouping accents by race is something that was done to cover for various inequalities and racial conflict ... because it does not happen everywhere.  And I would prefer if they were not grouped by race - I have some extremely black friends who do not sound like that, and although they are good-natured about this sort of thing, I feel offended for them.

--------------------------------------------------------------


I agree with you that there are many times when grouping by race is entirely inappropriate. But I do not think that linguists have any vast right-wing conspiracy to "cover up for various inequalities and racial conflict". It is a simple fact that AAVE is spoken almost exclusively by African-Americans, and the fact that the linguistic community refers to it in that way is a result of that fact.

Of course, not every black person speaks the dialect. There are of course many African-Americans who choose to speak standard English, as you and I both have mentioned. But that fact that you are embarrassed about the stereotype shows the negative attitude that our society has toward the AAVE dialect in the first place, and I think reflects the underlying racial tensions in American society in general. The fact that AAVE even exists is a direct result of slavery and the fact that blacks were a socially isolated group up until the middle of the 20th century. So I don't think you can blame the linguists for highlighting a reality which is caused by the prejudices of American society.

I would also like to point out that many educated African-Americans do choose to speak AAVE, even though they know how to speak standard English perfectly well. Many see it as a positive part of their cultural identity. It all boils down to lifestyle, personal choice and the people you tend to hang out with.


Back to the earlier topic - accents taken from the corruption of any language in poor urban environments are not going to be suitable for the tone of TLD.  Any attempt to copy these is going to come off as racist and insulting.  Foreign-sounding accents for people who should have their own languages would be one thing (since language problems are a fact of life).  Severely corrupted variations of the common speech are going to communicate something that I don't think we want to say.


I do agree with you in spirit -- anything with racially charged undertones is inappropriate for this mod -- but I am concerned by your choice of words. There is *no* evidence that any dialect is a "corruption" of the common speech.  That's a myth perpetuated by pedagogues that reinforces the same prejudicial attitudes that you are claiming to be against. By writing them off as "debased" forms of English, people tend to minimize the fact that dialects like AAVE often have a long history of development that is quite different than standard English and are important to their community of speakers.

/rant over

Right On. I agree with you! Stemmers.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on August 03, 2007, 03:07:59 AM
We're still off-topic, but traditionally a "dialect" is different from a regional accent in that a dialect is not mutually comprehensible with other dialects.  Cantonese, for example, is a dialect of Chinese because the grammar and written forms are identical, but when spoken, they sound like totally different languages.  English does not really have any of those, and if it did, it would not do the mod-making world any good ... as the majority would not be able to understand a word of it.

I still think the race issue is over-played in linguistics ... low socio-economic groups will always mistrust the more formalized speech patterns of the upper classes, in any language or culture.  The fact that this is associated with race in the United States speaks poorly of U.S. history in dealing with race issues, but the issue is more universal than North American English.  White hillbillies will ridicule people for using formalized speech just as inner-city blacks will ... their choice of insults may be different, but the tone will be the same - that those who use formal grammar are to be considered oppressors of their group (white people, rich people, whatever the local code word is for their perceived oppressors).  Those who wish to associate with these lower classes must change their speech patterns in order to be socially acceptable in that community - regardless if the community is U.S. inner city blacks, or U.S. white southern rednecks, or Miao minority in central China.  The actual impact of ethnic background is a detail (and possibly a critical detail if you live there), but not the cause.  If it was the cause, the pattern would not repeat with other ethnic groups.

And "corruption" of a language, in this case, refers to changes in speech patterns which will necessarily lower that group's standing in the eyes of the majority or the dominant system.  Language communicates both ideas and the status of those speaking it ... and if a particular language use clearly communicates a status that is widely perceived negatively, then it may be considered a corruption of the language - i.e. it indicates poor education or low social status, and will create prejudice against the speaker by a majority of speakers of that language.  That would be a usage from sociology rather than linguistics (two fields that overlap more often than not, but which are not very compatible).  It doesn't make one "right" and the other "wrong" - but it does make one poor, mistrusted, and unemployable ... which hurts a lot more than being wrong.

But back to the point ... we certainly cannot use any accents which will play to racial, social, or economic prejudices, unless it is done of a group which widely considers the issue a joke.  For example, a hillbilly accent from the American southeast would be acceptable, because even hillbillies make jokes about hillbilly accents.  The Scottish are rather proud of not being English, so using their accent for a different tribe would probably not anger too many of them, provided the tribe was not shown in too negative a light.  An inner-city poor accent (from any particular region, race or type of community) cannot be used, as it will be seen as a racial attack on groups known to be very sensitive about such things.

Such is the nature of making a project like this public.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on August 03, 2007, 09:47:34 AM
I think we'll need a separate topic for linguistics discussion. We need to be able to clearly see if someone offers help with models or voices.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on August 03, 2007, 09:58:38 AM
Enough on linguistics, just so long as nobody decides to do a speech pattern that some people will find offensive.  That was the only critical point when this off-topic got started.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Stemmers? on August 03, 2007, 05:36:55 PM
I think it would make Tolkien proud if we had a section set aside for linguistics discussion  :P.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Theodred son of Theoden on August 05, 2007, 03:26:20 PM
I  gladly want to help and ready to present more  Rohirrim, Elven and Orcish variety of phrases...

Again, my main principle- remain true to what Tolkien written and what he intended(judging by his letters and numerous explaining notes)

 voices in battle add a great deal to the general atmoshpere, and while all voice-acted phrases that TLD has at the moment are definetly good, the amount of voice-actoing is insufficent, to my mind.

Especially  endless"victory for the Eye" mantra get on my nerves latley.

So here are a coulpe of ideas that immideatly came to my mind- we know that Orcs called Rohirrim "Strawheads" in mockery...

So, some "Slaughter all strawheads!" or "Death to Stawhead scum!" will add small but nice, fitting detail.

The same with Gondorians...Orcs called them "tarks"....

And we know that Orcs love men flesh, and like to yell about it here and there.:)

So "Heya, boyz, we'll taste a men flesh tonight, rip them and eat them etc."...Evil should look and sound evil.


I would be glad if my service is needed...



Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on August 19, 2007, 12:03:08 PM
ATTENTION! if anyone wants to help, read Concept Art thread. No special skills are needed. I just need your time and having the mod would certainly help!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on August 27, 2007, 05:02:38 PM
Okay, so basically, I'm allowed to use ALL concept art as a reference to making stuff?
And if I finish, who do I send it to?  ???
I just learned how to model today, so I might not be that good in it, but I could give it a shot ><!


Following Highelfs tutorial, I was able to improvise this thingy-ma-bobber

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4879/meshthingyvn2.png)

It's my first, might not be too good, but practice makes perfect, right? ^^"
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on August 28, 2007, 09:43:48 PM
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9534/aeiornhjaeilurhjcu9.png)

Was I supposed to ask for permission first?  :-[
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5095/helmthingkf6.png)
This is the best I could do though, I don't know how to model mail ><!
bleh, I didn't notice that clip at the temples ><!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on August 29, 2007, 06:51:23 AM
try to clean it up a bit (also, post models in Concept art too.). It looks a bit scruffy. Also bear in mind that not every single line I draw has to be converted to polygons. Lots of stuff can be handled through textures. Try to make it more....soldi objects with smoother lines.
Mail is not a problem, just use parts (or the whole thing) of the mail coif from native or some of our models.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on August 29, 2007, 09:31:05 AM
The first one doesn't look bad at all. I think the other one would need to be worked on. Maybe it's better to post these in the concept art topic, and leave this topic for people tp reply if they want to help.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on August 29, 2007, 02:19:11 PM
Okay then, I'll try to smooth it out a bit. And does that mean I have to steal mail from native objects?  >:D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Templarion on August 30, 2007, 02:20:44 PM
Greetings!

Do you need more voices for men or women? My girlfriend could probably make some and I am more than ready. I can speak English without problems but I guess my accent could be one.

How about warcries and dying sounds? Do you need them?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on August 30, 2007, 04:48:54 PM
In my opinion, the death throes of soldiers seem fine.. We can use more warcries though :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: doop on August 30, 2007, 05:01:27 PM
hey - i have an unnaturally deep voice and a microphone! i could probably spew out some guttural orc cries
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on August 30, 2007, 10:33:39 PM
Greetings!

Do you need more voices for men or women? My girlfriend could probably make some and I am more than ready. I can speak English without problems but I guess my accent could be one.

How about warcries and dying sounds? Do you need them?

Yeah, we could use more warcries. We could use warcries for Gondor, Dunlendings and Haradrim. Check the first page for some ideas, if you're willing to help. ;)


hey - i have an unnaturally deep voice and a microphone! i could probably spew out some guttural orc cries

Yeah, why not? PM me when you're done. ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Kolba on August 30, 2007, 11:53:33 PM
You can use orc warcry from Gothic 1  :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on August 31, 2007, 07:25:12 AM
You can use orc warcry from Gothic 1  :)

no.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 02, 2007, 04:49:26 AM
For the dwarves, we can add a warcry based on this:

 gimli:   Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.

  gimli:    'I spit upon your grave'

 

ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.

ai  prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)

durugnul 'your grave'

and this may also be used as a warcry or a texture for some dwarven weapons and armor:

(http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/graphics/orc_inscr.jpg)

Tarâg-udrig

Rakhâs-udrig

 

'Troll-bane

Orc-bane'

Mernak Mabazgân!
Remember the dead!

Gurd!
Have fear!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 02, 2007, 04:53:13 AM
also a possible rohirrim:

Lac is drefed!

A battle is stirred up!

(if anyone knows old english, we can come up with more..)

edit:

possible orc/black speech:

  Za dashu snaku Zigur!
 Hail Sauron!
-  Nubin sherkuk!
  I smell your blood!

and sindarin:

Herio!
Charge!

Also if we ever get commands in elvish,
Hold!  is
Dartho!

Or "Hold position"
Tangado haid!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 04, 2007, 06:47:24 AM
So...where the hell is everybody? I mean...there used to be tons of people saying "I want to help, but I can't do anything.."..
With the coding and mostly everything else on hold now, it's a perfect time to do the easy stuff. Map is being reworked (I mean..it's not easy, but it's easier aproachable..), so why not build the scenes?

This is a scene in progress from the Sea Raider mod. We could build a good Edoras probably!
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1802/motte1du2.png)
We could ask the guys from SRM for some long houses, they look fairly rohanish....Or maybe some less experienced modelers could give some rohan buildings a shot, it's not that hard...Didn't we have a guy who modeled Meduseld?

Come on people, we CAN do something even without the Illuvatar around ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Highlander on September 04, 2007, 11:07:13 AM
This "long house" in the pic is a native building.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 04, 2007, 01:03:28 PM
I didn't mean that particular one, I just know they have made some halls and long viking houses that look pretty. I posted the pic to show how the custom terrain can look.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 05, 2007, 02:56:29 PM
This almost IS Edoras..:( Another one from the Sea Raider mod..

(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7483/77433672ar0.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on September 05, 2007, 03:03:48 PM
We would just need someone to model the palace, and we probably could make Edoras using existing props.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 05, 2007, 03:59:01 PM
of course :) Wasn't there a Meduseld being made? I think it was...maybe the inside and I'm mixing it up..
I'm sure we could borrow those long houses from SR though. Aryndil is a fan of TLD after all, isn't he? :D ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: doop on September 05, 2007, 04:07:31 PM
alright everybody, I'm not sure where to bring up the idea of me possibly helping this mod (I suppose this thread is logical)
I've had a bit of experience with modeling - no idea how to texture, however. there are always tutorials.. and I'm orienting myself with the modding section of the forum
I apologize if there's already been some talk on this here - I'm not really interested in reading through 50+ page threads!


I also have  a microphone and an active voice, if that is needed!

thanks

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 05, 2007, 04:22:56 PM
alright everybody, I'm not sure where to bring up the idea of me possibly helping this mod (I suppose this thread is logical)
I've had a bit of experience with modeling - no idea how to texture, however. there are always tutorials.. and I'm orienting myself with the modding section of the forum
I apologize if there's already been some talk on this here - I'm not really interested in reading through 50+ page threads!


I also have  a microphone and an active voice, if that is needed!

thanks



this thread is only 11 pages..you could read that ;)
We indeed still have some war cries to be recorded if you think you can do it. Also you could try modeling some rohan houses. You should find descriptions of everything you need in this thread. If not, ask.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on September 12, 2007, 05:56:00 PM
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/706/untitled6tc9.png)

Okay, I think I'm done =3 I didn't color though, not too good at it ><!
There are three objects with 581 faces, though, I'm not sure if I turned every single shape into a triangle yet ><!
There might be a clip or two, but I didn't find any, so players shouldn't notice either.
Do you need it?  :green:

Btw, I want to help with the scenery, but I don't know how ><! Any links you guys know about that might teach me?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 13, 2007, 01:42:28 AM
I wish Octoburn was here...maybe try to send him the model and see if he can clean it up a bit. It could be used. :)

For the sceneries...search for viking/saxon/rohan house pictures and photos and try to model some. The more the merrier. Actually assembling the scenes is the easier part..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Albino on September 13, 2007, 05:48:16 PM
For a helmet or sword there can only be one object.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on September 13, 2007, 10:10:33 PM
SNAAAHAAHAAAHAAAAP  :'(
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on September 13, 2007, 11:06:06 PM
For a helmet or sword there can only be one object.

Not true.  The Japanese-type blades in Native are done as multiple objects with different material shaders on each part.  If you attempt to import a compound object .obj file into BRFEdit, it will give you the option of making it multiple objects.  It works fine.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 14, 2007, 06:05:08 AM
I know that helmets can't be multi-meshed. It would have saved quite a bit of trouble with certain helmets.

That helmet is a nice job but it might be too complex for my tastes. Its one of those things you'd need to see textured to get a real feel for I think.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on September 14, 2007, 06:06:38 AM
I know that helmets can't be multi-meshed. It would have saved quite a bit of trouble with certain helmets.

I never tested it on a helmet ... I wasn't doing anything I needed multi-mesh anyway.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 14, 2007, 07:08:33 AM
I know that helmets can't be multi-meshed. It would have saved quite a bit of trouble with certain helmets.

That helmet is a nice job but it might be too complex for my tastes. Its one of those things you'd need to see textured to get a real feel for I think.

exactly, I still find it a bit too busy. Many of the lines could be reduced to a texture...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Zenosknight on September 16, 2007, 09:21:13 PM
As I said before somewhere, I play M&B in the lowest quality possible, so everything I see is low res and I never have a good reference on a high res object xD
maybe I'll try again sometime  ???
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 17, 2007, 10:40:31 AM
I've already sent them to Octoburn, but he doesn't seem to visit very often, so I'll ask here in the case he's taking a year off or something ;)

Someone feels like modeling and texturing some more dwarven swords? :)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9500/barta2tq1.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9500/barta2tq1.jpg)
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6439/barta1rn5.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6439/barta1rn5.jpg)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-hilt-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-hilt-v.jpg)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-blade-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-blade-v.jpg)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-corpus-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/127-sword/127-corpus-v.jpg)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-hilt-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-hilt-v.jpg)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-corpus-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-corpus-v.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: mtarini on September 17, 2007, 07:35:07 PM
I've a general suggestion for the helm models, specifically the closed hemls like the one by Zeno here.
Not sure how good the result will be, but maybe it is worth a try.

Why not add few extra polygons in the helm aperture, where a glass screen for the eyes would be (inside the helm, in front of the face)?
These polygons would be colored (per vertex, or in the texture) with a black, but quite semitransparent color, so
that the part of the face that you see though the elm is darkened (in reality, by this "dark glass", but, seemingly, as if most of the light shedding on the face was screened by the elm).

Otherwise, the bits of ork (or human) face you see through the helm are always unnaturally bright. How does that much light get inside there?

For example, take this ork (screenshot by Ursca)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/Ursca/mordororc.jpg)
In this helm, the "glass visor" should be darker (i.e. less transparent) at the top, to blend down to fully transparent at the bottom.

This trick, admitting it looks decent, can be done only on closed enough elms, otherwise you risk seeing the glass visor from the side (which would look funny). If you try, don't forget to activate blending in the material properties.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Jakkaru on September 18, 2007, 11:33:25 AM
Hey lads, i'm working on a rohanish building and it could be used as the golden halls  8)

in short: i can help building edoras
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 18, 2007, 11:56:16 AM
Hey lads, i'm working on a rohanish building and it could be used as the golden halls  8)

in short: i can help building edoras

good, show us pictures when you have something presentable :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Albino on September 19, 2007, 02:06:24 PM
I've already sent them to Octoburn, but he doesn't seem to visit very often, so I'll ask here in the case he's taking a year off or something ;)

Someone feels like modeling and texturing some more dwarven swords? :)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9500/barta2tq1.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9500/barta2tq1.jpg)
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6439/barta1rn5.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6439/barta1rn5.jpg)

Yarrrr! I felt like it and made a dwarven sword.
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1790/untitledqi1.th.png) (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledqi1.png)

280 tris. :-[ But I could easily make it about 170 tris but I would need to retexture it. And I'm a lazy bastard.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 19, 2007, 02:16:18 PM
pretty :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Albino on September 19, 2007, 02:26:29 PM
Would you want it?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 20, 2007, 01:02:45 AM
yeah, sure, just keep it until AW starts getting stuff together :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: serechin on September 20, 2007, 04:31:17 AM
very nice sword! Wonder how dwarven armor will turn out.
Heavy leather with mail,i presume?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 20, 2007, 04:33:56 AM
very nice sword! Wonder how dwarven armor will turn out.
Heavy leather with mail,i presume?

you can sort of tell from the concepts I've drawn so far. There will be certain changes though..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Jakkaru on September 20, 2007, 11:59:00 AM
Ok, have a look of my almost-done-goldenhalls of edoras

behold

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/JRinne/do.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 20, 2007, 12:29:35 PM
friggin cool! :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 21, 2007, 09:00:19 AM
Oh, missed this, thats coming along really nicely. Great work!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ollieh on September 22, 2007, 12:18:37 AM
Someone feels like modeling and texturing some more dwarven swords? :)
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-corpus-v.jpg (http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/128-sword/128-corpus-v.jpg)
I haven't done much modeling, but because I love TLD I decided to give the sword a try...
How does this look?: (Btw, its 340 polygons  :-\ , currently)
(http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/9174/sword1wv8.th.jpg) (http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sword1wv8.jpg)(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9318/sword11rr3.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sword11rr3.jpg)
Couple of my earlier models:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5959/helmetnq3.th.png) (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=helmetnq3.png)(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1530/somethinggd0.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=somethinggd0.jpg)
I might be able to try to help in something, if needed and I can find the time...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 22, 2007, 03:45:45 AM
dunno about the sword, might be too detailed. Are the polies triangulated?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ollieh on September 22, 2007, 04:34:28 AM
dunno about the sword, might be too detailed. Are the polies triangulated?
Nope, is it necessary?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on September 22, 2007, 05:14:12 AM
dunno about the sword, might be too detailed. Are the polies triangulated?
Nope, is it necessary?

well...no, I hear the newest BRFedit can take any shape of a polygon. But 390 nontriangulated polies is too much.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ron Losey on September 22, 2007, 05:49:28 AM
dunno about the sword, might be too detailed. Are the polies triangulated?
Nope, is it necessary?

well...no, I hear the newest BRFedit can take any shape of a polygon. But 390 nontriangulated polies is too much.

Everything for .808 had to be triangulated.  Unless there's already a BRFEdit version out for .890 that I haven't heard about (which I seriously doubt), I think they have to be triangulated.

Got into this with the new swords for ONR ... even the empty spaces had to be triangulated, or it would screw up big-time.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 22, 2007, 01:50:12 PM
Jobs updated.

We could use someone to redo the troop tree diagrams and a modeller/texturer for the LOD stuff after the port.   Most of it will simply involve making some low-res texture maps on existing low-detail vanilla items. Shouldnt be too tricky for even a low-skill modeller/texturer
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 22, 2007, 02:19:41 PM
AW: maybe you could update the warcries with these:

For the dwarves, we can add a warcry based on this:

 gimli:   Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.

  gimli:    'I spit upon your grave'

 

ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.

ai  prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)

durugnul 'your grave'

and this may also be used as a warcry or a texture for some dwarven weapons and armor:

(http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/graphics/orc_inscr.jpg)

Tarâg-udrig

Rakhâs-udrig

 

'Troll-bane

Orc-bane'

Mernak Mabazgân!
Remember the dead!

Gurd!
Have fear!

also a possible rohirrim:

Lac is drefed!

A battle is stirred up!

(if anyone knows old english, we can come up with more..)

edit:

possible orc/black speech:

  Za dashu snaku Zigur!
 Hail Sauron!
-  Nubin sherkuk!
  I smell your blood!

and sindarin:

Herio!
Charge!

Also if we ever get commands in elvish,
Hold!  is
Dartho!

Or "Hold position"
Tangado haid!

ok, added some to the main page. But the elves already say tangado haid when you give orders. There are a bunch of elven commands for a male player character.

edit: ok, I didn't know, I don't play the elves ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on September 22, 2007, 02:29:08 PM
While we are scouting for voice talents, why not throw in the "greetings" speeches that were suggested before
(here is the link (http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,107.msg11549.html#msg11549) to my old suggestion, but it was suggested before that as well - only I can't track it).

Of course they would have to be written down exactly, before they can be included in the list.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Ollieh on September 22, 2007, 04:15:44 PM
dunno about the sword, might be too detailed. Are the polies triangulated?
Nope, is it necessary?

well...no, I hear the newest BRFedit can take any shape of a polygon. But 390 nontriangulated polies is too much.
Allright, I think I could clean it or make a new one...how many non-trig. polies should be good?
EDIT:
Made a new one, still 276 polygons non-triangulated...maybe I shall leave it for someone else.  :lol:

BTW, this is a noob modeling question... do all the faces have to have exactly 4 vertexes, or not?

I dont know much about modelling so I cant say the difference between poly types. How many polys does brfedit say it is? Check out misc_dwarf_sword.brf file and the dwarf swords octoburn did there run from 180-300 polys or so. AW
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 22, 2007, 06:47:25 PM
Allright tried to play around and the lowest I could get to was 350 triangulated.  :-\
My sword at the top, I think the other one is Octoburns:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/322/swordly3.th.jpg) (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordly3.jpg)
I just tought that if I remove the bump's on the handle, and faked them with texturing, I could get the poly count lot lower...I'll do that now...
EDIT: Umm...doesn't look like the sword it was meant to be anymore.

bumps on the handle are best done with textures. You cant see the handle anyway in battle as its covered up by the hand thats holding it.

Hmm...Didn't turn out good, maybe I'll start off with something easier...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 07:50:33 AM
I have a mic and I could conceivably help record some sounds, but I'll need someone to help me with the pronunciation of the elven and dwarvish stuff.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 07:59:52 AM
I have a mic and I could conceivably help record some sounds, but I'll need someone to help me with the pronunciation of the elven and dwarvish stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Salo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Salo)
http://www.musefanpage.com/NewFiles/salo_answers.html (http://www.musefanpage.com/NewFiles/salo_answers.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khuzdul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khuzdul)
http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/khuzdul.htm (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/khuzdul.htm)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 09:06:49 AM
No offense Merlkir, but those weren't terribly helpful for the pronunciation.  I'll give it a go anyway.  I'll just pronounce them as phonetically as possible.  I am a Southern American White male though, so I apologize if my recordings aren't useful.  Just figured I'd give it a go since no one else was doing it.

EDIT: I've recorded a few little things, does anyone have the time to perhaps let me know if I'm pronouncing them right?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 09:15:09 AM
there are some mentions of pronounciations of certain stuff, I think that's the best we or anyone else know.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 09:16:59 AM
Merlkir, I'm gonna send them to you right quick.  Do you mind?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 09:22:02 AM
Merlkir, I'm gonna send them to you right quick.  Do you mind?

well, I'm not the sound editor (which is DaBlade), but I don't really mind.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 09:24:09 AM
you're just responding to my posts, and if my voice is crap and I can't pronounce them, I'd rather not do a million of these things for no net gain, savy?
Sending them to your email provided on these forums (in your profile)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 09:32:39 AM
you're just responding to my posts, and if my voice is crap and I can't pronounce them, I'd rather not do a million of these things for no net gain, savy?
Sending them to your email provided on these forums (in your profile)

ooh, sorry, I forgot I posted that mail here, I can't access it from here. If you want to, send it here:

synnaskole@seznam.cz
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 09:35:42 AM
consider it done.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 09:49:37 AM
The Papist:

OK, some minor corrections:
- "u" is not pronounced like...hell, I can't find a good example :D like the word "you". More like double o in "mood", but shorter. Vowels in general I think are pronounced quite short and bright and sharp in khuzdul. And R is the russian sound "R", if you have the movies with you, you can check how some actors pronounce it right and some don't. For instance Frodo who is a hobbit with lesser knowledge ;) says Mordor like "mowdoh" where Gandalf and Saruman (both great voices and actors ;)) say  it right with a sharp and sound "R".
- generally, the second attempts are better. I like the second Thorin. The first is a bit hissy with the "Th".
- Lac is drefed is ok, old english huh. :)

- my problem with most of them: They're warcries, should be shouted out more. Still recognizable and understandable, but you could put more emotion and anger in them. Especially since they're dwarven. I know it's hard without a pro-mike, but I think here's it's a matter of practice. The second Thorin is almost there :)

edit: also if you have the extended versions, check out Gimli's "Ash Kaqwi Durugnul" in Lorien ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 10:11:36 AM
Gonna send you a few more, they're not shouted, just to see if the pronunciations are better.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 10:59:25 AM
Gonna send you a few more, they're not shouted, just to see if the pronunciations are better.

ok, I don't know if I wrote it wrong :( it's off more than before :)

the R in Thorin is ok, but the "o" sounds like "u" should! :) Sounds like Turin. (which is bad.) The "o" is a normal short o as in "hot".
Khazad ai menu - the "a" in khazad is maybe too long, but that's not a big flaw. The "u" is still bad. menu is not actually pronounced as menu in a restaurant. As I said, the n is an n, not "?" as in nubile. It's more like n in "no", the "u" is not "you", but more like shorter "oo" as in "noon".
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 11:05:13 AM
maybe I'll stick to Rohan......
I think my southern accent is running interference
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 24, 2007, 11:10:04 AM
maybe I'll stick to Rohan......
I think my southern accent is running interference


:) as you wish ;) your voice is not bad, don't give up..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 24, 2007, 04:16:40 PM
maybe I'll stick to Rohan......
I think my southern accent is running interference


I didn't hear what you've done before, but why not try Harad? ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Papist on September 24, 2007, 05:48:18 PM
I'll do some stuff tomorrow morning in addition to sending you the stuff I've done today DaBlade.  Hope you don't mind some potentially horrible sounding wav and mp3 files :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 27, 2007, 05:48:11 PM
I'd love to help. I can model, though I don't know the first thing about texturing. I can learn if you need me to, however.

A few questions:

What format do you need the files in? .obj?
What's the maximum triangles? I've read 200-300 in this thread, wasn't sure what the official wording on that was.

Can't wait for the .892 version of this mod. Sieges, pillaging (I'm assuming, anyway), Dwarves... Brings a tear to my eye ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Albino on September 27, 2007, 05:57:47 PM
What's the maximum triangles? I've read 200-300 in this thread, wasn't sure what the official wording on that was.

Depends on what you are making.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 27, 2007, 06:59:50 PM
Well, the question was more directed towards swords, but I'd like to know the numbers for Axes, helms, armor, etc.

What kind of buildings do you need? I know Edoras is already done.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 27, 2007, 07:17:01 PM
Swords arent really a priority at the moment.  Helmets Id say are my primary interest at the moment.

For a general helmet keep it around 300-500. Some go higher but they are then used on rarer troops. Reward helmets can go over 1000 but those are very rare.  If you are in the mood to try some helms I can get you some concepts to work on.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 27, 2007, 07:35:33 PM
Please and thank you.

What are the guidelines for helms? Like, is there some special thing I should know about before I start making them? In terms of using them in the mod, I mean. I'd hate to make it and find out it's impossible to be used in game because of some game technicality. How exactly is armor applied to characters?

And is there some MB head I can use as reference? For size and fit reasons.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Albino on September 27, 2007, 10:03:15 PM
Yeah just export the M&B head from brf edit.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 28, 2007, 06:15:15 PM
Do the objects (In my case a helmet) have to be closed? For example, can I do a plane extrusion then just create depth at the outer edges and tuck them inside the non-visible parts of the helmet? Or can there be no edges to the helmet at all? I know some programs/environments require the entire piece to be a single, enclosed object with no exposure.

Also, is there backface culling in M&B (That's what it's called in 3DS max anyway, in other words, the backs of the polygons are see-through)?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 28, 2007, 06:29:04 PM
I dont know much about modelling but you can have helms with no faces on the interior. This saves polys though you cant use them for display as youd see right through them.  We have some like that and some with fully modelled helm interior. Up to you.

The other question I cant answer.

Ill do some bughunting tommorrow and pass you some concepts.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 28, 2007, 06:32:33 PM
Actually, your first question answered my second one when you said you'd "See right through them" :)

Thanks, that saves me work and polys. They're at an acceptable level right now, and if I had to do the interior that would destroy that.

I'm having a wonderful time learning to texture... It's like driving rusty needles into my eyes. So fun.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 29, 2007, 04:38:27 PM
Hit me with models to do, I'll try my best...Merlkir or AW.
Here is a practice helmet I did:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7075/orchelmgf1.th.jpg) (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orchelmgf1.jpg)
Yeah, I know it is very un-usable/not protective.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 29, 2007, 06:45:42 PM
Needs some work but not bad at all.

I havent had a chance to f around with the mod today but Ill send some concepts around to those who asked by tommorrow.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 30, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
my suggestions:
- make the texture more metallic, rusty and all, look at ursca's, he's got a couple good metal textures.
- The chunks at the sides could be cheekguards and the spikes going forward from them could be more spikyish (ie, thinner)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on September 30, 2007, 02:22:36 AM
I like the forward-turned spikes ... sort of resembling tusks, plus they serve as good neck/throat guards.

However, the top of the head being exposed would never cut it.  The straps make for a cool fantasy look, but their severe lack of efficiency would make them very out-of-place among the generally historically inspired helmets in TLD.  Go ahead and fill in the gaps there - make it into a rounded helmet.


Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 30, 2007, 03:26:44 AM
Hmm...I was having soo much fun trying to re-texture, in short I suck at texturing, might be the model...dunno.
Here is one earlier version of the same helmet, should I do something like this.
(http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1184/helmet2ey0.th.jpg) (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=helmet2ey0.jpg)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/525/orchelmet100bb4.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orchelmet100bb4.jpg)
I hope Ursca won't mind using his texture...
Anyway, I'm not happy with the streteched uv-mapping, but it was practice anyways.
If anyone want's to give a go with uv-mapping&texturing, I would be more than happy!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on September 30, 2007, 05:19:46 AM
Yeah, the helmet on top makes it look much more practical.

As for the texture mapping, I wouldn't panic.  If it looks vaguely like metal, odds are nobody will notice.  I mean, just studying the thing in BRFEdit is one thing ... in game is another.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 30, 2007, 05:29:51 AM
it's definitely sort of heavy mean attack based uruk-hai helmet :) not bad I'd say...the previous wouldn't be bad either, if you've put a leather cap under the metal strips over the head..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on September 30, 2007, 05:47:42 AM
it's definitely sort of heavy mean attack based uruk-hai helmet :) not bad I'd say...the previous wouldn't be bad either, if you've put a leather cap under the metal strips over the head..

Leather cap under the strips would make it functional, but still odd ... I mean, who would bother to put five extra pounds of steel on their face and then rely on a quarter inch of leather over their cranium?

Although I like the heavy helmet, a lighter and tighter fitting helmet bowl would also look good with this config.  Try turning the one with the metal straps on the head into just a simple continuous curve - a relatively thin, and tighter fitting metal helmet.  That will make the lighter version usable as well.

This is a good face design.  We might as well get as much mileage as we can out of it.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 30, 2007, 05:57:09 AM
it reminds me a lot of some old Stefano's concepts, if I had them, I would post ;) I believe AW does have them...



Leather cap under the strips would make it functional, but still odd ... I mean, who would bother to put five extra pounds of steel on their face and then rely on a quarter inch of leather over their cranium?

uruks are smarter than orcs, but I think there are limits to being a smart orc when it comes to "looking vicious and cool" ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on September 30, 2007, 06:11:16 AM
it reminds me a lot of some old Stefano's concepts, if I had them, I would post ;) I believe AW does have them...



Leather cap under the strips would make it functional, but still odd ... I mean, who would bother to put five extra pounds of steel on their face and then rely on a quarter inch of leather over their cranium?

uruks are smarter than orcs, but I think there are limits to being a smart orc when it comes to "looking vicious and cool" ;)

The difference between looking vicious and cool or looking like a trick-or-treat dork is whether or not you have huge holes in your armor.

I'm all for looking vicious and cool, even if it's a little impractical.  The general's helmets in ONR with the huge horns and massively oversize earguards, and the armored horse with the deer antlers, were both my doing.  But there is a limit at the point where any organism smart enough to put on armor would immediately recognize that the armor in question is either unusable or severely lacking for protective qualities.

Again, it's a good concept - but the straps need to be turned into a more helmet-bowl shape.  Beyond that, further variations are possible.  (A dozen spikes over the top come to mind.)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 30, 2007, 07:12:00 AM
I'm having problems with imageshack, pisses me off! Hope it works.
The new "light" one: Oops, forgot to cover the forehead  :-[ , will do tommorow! Done.
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8123/lightlt9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Both the heavy and light use the same texture and if the slightly lazy uv-mapping doesn't matter, I would be so happy to see something of mine in TLD one day!   :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on September 30, 2007, 09:20:20 AM
I hope Ursca won't mind using his texture...

I would encourage Ancient to make it official that as many existing TLD and Vanilla texture files as possible should be used for new items to reduce the overall texture load of the mod. Also  when textures (such as custom swords) that are needed do not exist on current texture files, they should be added to some empty space on some of them and mapped there. Dones't make sense to me to have a new set of textures for each sword or helmet added, when they all look roughly the same way.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Kohlrabi on September 30, 2007, 11:39:37 AM
Couldn´t those open helmet be used for berserkers, since they don´t bother much about armour otherwise?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 30, 2007, 11:57:07 AM
Just a suggestion:

It's better to post the images in their actual size (unless they're huge), because imageshack is soooo slooooow... It's impossible to follow a link to the site, most of the times, at least for me...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 30, 2007, 05:19:02 PM
In Native shots, now more suggestions on how to make them better! Also, anyone up for texturing?  :lol:
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5411/helmetsingamemn2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
The last one is there just for fun...
Btw, won't be hear for the next few days.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Fisheye on September 30, 2007, 07:29:00 PM
The top one looks good. The helmet part can be mapped onto any of the Native helmet textures. They have very similar structure.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 30, 2007, 08:02:23 PM
Yeah, the top isnt bad. You might shorten the shovels but its unique.  I dont know what Id use it for but Im sure it could fit somewhere with minor adjustments. The bottom one looks like he was captured by harkonens and fitted with a shovel mask to scrap up his food. He spends all day shovelling up low-nutrient rancid food just to stay alive.


For the budding helm makers here are some concepts. Just lay claim to one and give it a shot. We'll see what we get. Some of these will require custom textures to look really nice, others could get away with recycled vanilla or other tld textures.  As Triglav noted, we should really start being a little more careful with adding new textures. Still, some fancier ones could use them and we can shrink the sheet down if needed.

Merlkir tracked most of this stuff down:

This one below might be good with a brassy/bronze finish. You might be able to use the brassy corsair shell helm texture sheet (especially for the wavy trim).

(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1741/corsairhelmxe7.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corsairhelmxe7.jpg)

(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2089/evilhelmlp0.th.jpg) (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=evilhelmlp0.jpg)

(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2030/fantasyhelm4250x187ud4.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasyhelm4250x187ud4.jpg)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/48/visorcaplkv9.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=visorcaplkv9.jpg)

This helm below could probably get mapped to the existing rohan helm sheet (mabye helmets_rohan.dds,  not the _b one)

(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8071/horsemanhelmwf2.th.jpg) (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=horsemanhelmwf2.jpg)

Been looking for a new tower guard helm for a bit. One of these variants would be nice. Both with and w/o wings.

(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2079/howegonhelmbzn2.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=howegonhelmbzn2.jpg)

(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7739/howegonhelmetre0.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=howegonhelmetre0.jpg)

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/921/oddhelmju8.th.jpg) (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oddhelmju8.jpg)

(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6310/snowgiiul1.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snowgiiul1.jpg)

(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9664/kataphractacs1.th.jpg) (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kataphractacs1.jpg)

I believe this one below is being worked on already

(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1404/kataphractcal2.th.jpg) (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kataphractcal2.jpg)

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9057/slavshlemgq5.th.jpg) (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slavshlemgq5.jpg)

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4034/archerhelmnk5.th.jpg) (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=archerhelmnk5.jpg)


Not sure about the wings but the crest is nice for a corsair helm maybe.  Might try to put it on the bronze/brassy corsair shell helmet sheet.

(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9177/wingedffrontqp9.th.jpg) (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingedffrontqp9.jpg)

(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9735/wingedbackfk9.th.jpg) (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingedbackfk9.jpg)

(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9752/wingedleftip5.th.jpg) (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingedleftip5.jpg)

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2774/wingedrightal9.th.jpg) (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingedrightal9.jpg)




Not sure where any of them will go eventually but they are for various men. Ursca is working on the dwarf helms.  Ill go through merlkirs helm concept sketches tommorrow and put some of them up here as well.

Oh and sorry dablade, Ill post full sized next time if I can figure that out.



Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: CoonDawg on September 30, 2007, 08:06:41 PM
When we submit these (I know we're not yet), how are they submitted? Are the meshes sent as .OBJs? What about textures?

Yeah, models in .obj is best. Textures should be in .dds format. There is a plug-in for photoshop for .dds but if you cant do that I can just convert it myself.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on September 30, 2007, 08:18:36 PM
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2030/fantasyhelm4250x187ud4.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasyhelm4250x187ud4.jpg)
I'll claim this one! Although I won't be able to work on it for next few days as I'm going away.

Yeah, the top isnt bad. You might shorten the shovels but its unique.  I dont know what Id use it for but Im sure it could fit somewhere with minor adjustments. The bottom one looks like he was captured by harkonens and fitted with a shovel mask to scrap up his food. He spends all day shovelling up low-nutrient rancid food just to stay alive.
:lol: I cracked up big time!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 01, 2007, 09:45:55 AM
Since we're putting some helm stuff together, I suggest we make the uruk-hai use helmets designed by J.Howe. (of course with all the other ones we have already too.)
Like the dude to the left. The skull face shaped one.

http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/data/media/21/big/Helms_Deep.jpg (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/data/media/21/big/Helms_Deep.jpg)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=73 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=73)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4118 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4118)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=1085 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=1085)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4120 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4120)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4119 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4119)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4117 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4117)
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4116 (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=4116)

Quote
Not sure about the wings but the crest is nice for a corsair helm maybe.

yeah, I suggested it for the corsairs, it has a nice numenorean feel to me, almost gondorian with those wings. Would be a nice bond to the numenorian heritage of both..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Albino on October 01, 2007, 05:19:36 PM
I'll claim one once I'm done working on the one I'm currently on. Maybe the tower guard one.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 07, 2007, 12:09:14 PM
Stupid question #1:
Still in need of voice acting?  :)

Stupid question #2:
Will someone with a terrible voice and a polish accenct be good for any of the lines?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 07, 2007, 12:19:40 PM
Stupid question #1:
Still in need of voice acting?  :)

Stupid question #2:
Will someone with a terrible voice and a polish accenct be good for any of the lines?

dude, polish is not bad ;) try the dwarves, they don't really have any sounds done as far as I know. If you need to know something about the pronounciation, just read my posts here some pages ago..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 07, 2007, 12:34:56 PM
Stupid question #1:
Still in need of voice acting?  :)

Stupid question #2:
Will someone with a terrible voice and a polish accenct be good for any of the lines?

dude, polish is not bad ;) try the dwarves, they don't really have any sounds done as far as I know. If you need to know something about the pronounciation, just read my posts here some pages ago..
The point was more that people can hardly understand me when i say anything.

Any? You poor things. Good thing i had some training in shouting quasi-Khazad things xD

Btw. where am i suppoused to mail the samples? (Send me a PM)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 07, 2007, 12:39:03 PM
well, anyone who wants me to hear their khuzdul, this is the email : synnaskole@seznam.cz
:) if you send spam, I'll voodoo AW and TLD will change to a war between cute pink rabbits and yellow striped squirrels.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 07, 2007, 12:56:59 PM
well, anyone who wants me to hear their khuzdul, this is the email : synnaskole@seznam.cz
:) if you send spam, I'll voodoo AW and TLD will change to a war between cute pink rabbits and yellow striped squirrels.
Great :)

Just a thought - How about adding "Theoden Nictu Hal" (Or similar, can't remember now) to the list-o'-quotes?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 07, 2007, 01:04:43 PM
well...that would kinda assume that Theoden is dead, right? ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 07, 2007, 01:25:02 PM
well...that would kinda assume that Theoden is dead, right? ;)
Well, i can't remember what it meant.
It's ages from now when i last read tLotR
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 07, 2007, 01:51:02 PM
Stupid question #1:
Still in need of voice acting?  :)

Stupid question #2:
Will someone with a terrible voice and a polish accenct be good for any of the lines?

I sent you a PM already, check it out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 12, 2007, 05:10:15 PM
WARGS!!!

Yoshi did incredible meshes for wolves, but as we know they are not, and are not supposed to be, wargs.

Since I was getting tired of mercilessy killing cute, wide-eyed puppies like this one:
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg01.png)
   "Is your mother wearing a fur? Mine isn't anymore :_(  "

I retouched it into a less guilt-inspiring version:

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg02.png)
   "Kill me! I'm evil! Kill me!"

Would that be an acceptable warg? Feel free to suggest, or directly re-edit it.

I tried rigging it as well (I'm a total 1st timer about rigging -- I did it by applying a very, very dirty trick and hoping for the best), BUT, I could not test it.
Likewise, I tried to make it so that the rider is in the right position, but I could not test that either.
Too difficult to get into a fight with wargs in my saved games.

If anybody feels like it, it would be useful if you would just replace the resource file with the new one (here (http://"http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/yoshi_wolf.brf")) and the texture file (here (http://"http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mt_wolf.dds")) inside the respective TLD folders, run the game, fight with/against wargs  and see if it is any good. (warning: could be totally wrong -- also, make a backup). PS: sorry about keeping "yoshi" in the filename, it is just so that it is simple to replace files.

Also, it would be great if someone knowledgeable about M&B mount meshes could fix any errors that turns out to be there. I'm no expert about any of this.

Note: in the resource file, all the four types of wargs are copies of the same mesh. If it turn out to be working, I will differentiate them.

If anyone knows any better way to test them, let me know.
Meanwhile, here is other views:
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg03.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 12, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
Hey, that looks great mtarini. If the rig is messed up we can probably get Yoshi to re-rig it, as he's done that warg rig several times.  Ill test it out tommorrow if we dont have any other takers.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 12, 2007, 06:07:17 PM
Yes, if yoshi is clearly to one that can fix (if broken), if there is one!

small update: added a "furry textured" version (adaptation of Yoshiboy's, again).

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg04.png)

Zipped file here (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mtarini_wolves.zip) (two textures + the resource file with models using either one -- just substitute with current files)
(It is just a new texture, so it works if the other warg does and viceversa.)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 01:16:57 AM
I like the hunched back and the evilness and all...but the flat nose just looks wrong. Like he ran really fast against a wall and forgot to stop. If he's to resemble anything dog related (even bears..), he needs a snout.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 13, 2007, 06:19:20 AM
It certainly looks more evil, but does it look more Wargish?

‘…the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named)’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 95.

‘…in the middle of the circle was a great grey wolf. He spoke to them in the dreadful language of the Wargs.’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 95.

‘Wolves are afraid of fire at all times…’*

*’The Hobbit: Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire’, p. 97.

‘…and many of their own wolves were turning upon them and rending the dead and the wounded.’*

*’The Hobbit: The Clouds Burst’, p. 261.

‘...and a great pack of the dreadful Orcish wolf-riders, feared by horses. Behind them came two battalions of the fierce Uruks, heavily armed but trained to move at great speed for many miles.’*

*'Unfinished Tales: The Battles of the Fords of Isen', p. 463.

Wargs: ‘They were very swift and skilled in avoiding ordered men in close array, being used mostly to destroy isolated groups or to hunt down fugitives; but at need they would pass with reckless ferocity through any gaps in companies of horsemen, slashing at the bellies of the horses.’*

*'Unfinished Tales: The Battles of the Fords of Isen', p. 472-3.

(From 'The Scroll of Quotations' (http://www.chamber-of-records.com/forum/showthread.php?t=872))

I think it is clear that to Tolkien Wargs = wolves (only larger, more fierce, evil, intelligent). I personally really dislike the movie 'hyenas', and these look a little too much like those. Maybe Merlkir's suggestion of a snout will change that.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 13, 2007, 06:47:07 AM
Well, the reality of a wolf (or coyote, or jackal, or hyena or whatever) is that they don't look particularly evil when just standing there looking stupid.  However, when they lower their heads, ruffle their fur, show teeth and attack, even the cutest little puppy turns into the devil pretty fast.  I've been attacked by a couple of "domestic" dogs, and I've been in the forest with wolves... but I've also known people who keep gray timber wolves as "domestic" dogs.  The same wolves that will make your blood run cold in a forest don't look like much when they're just standing there begging for table scraps.

The original wolves there looked like happy little puppies because they were not in a pose of teeth barred, eyes narrowed, head lowered, nose flared, attack posture.  They were just standing there like they were waiting to fetch your newspaper or something.

Replacing them with something that looks not even canine ... that may not be the solution.  The movies over-did the making of the wolves of Isengard into alien monsters.  Let's not copy that mistake.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 07:09:54 AM
well, I like all the changes except the flat head. I would have to see it move, but I think the hunched back gives a glimpse of that aggressive pose...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 13, 2007, 07:20:17 AM
well, I like all the changes except the flat head. I would have to see it move, but I think the hunched back gives a glimpse of that aggressive pose...

Well, yeah, lowered head is certainly a big part of that look.  Probably the most visible part at a distance.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 13, 2007, 08:42:22 AM
Good job mtarini!

Though I think the wolf in the movie 300 looked pretty much what I imagined a warg to look like:

(http://www.indielondon.co.uk/images/5151.jpg)

Malnourished with ribs showing, unkept nasty fur and a bony, protruding head.

So, what you've done is pretty close to this in posture. Just add a werewolf's head and you're done.

(http://www.ufodigest.com/images/werewolf.jpg) or this (http://www.halloween-mask.com/Alvarez/lg_werewolf_alv.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 09:27:26 AM
I agree about the head, but I need a clarification: wolf or monster?

Are wargs just mundane wolves (only maybe bigger) or are they hideous monsters resembling wolves, that people would describe as (great) "wolves" for lack of a better word? I assumed the latter. After all, if they are wolves but they must be the size to ride them, then they already are unnatural monsters (thus, twisted) rather than just animals. I loved the movie version, actually, because it's in line with that: you could call it "wolf" if you had to refer to one, but it's not really (it's a lot uglier and evil looking than that). If fact, more acculturate people would call them differently: "wargs".

Still, I agree in that the head doesn't look right yet. I should be more wolf-like (looks almost like a reptilian now - or maybe a bear).

Is anybody already retouching it? If so then please go ahead! I can give it a try, but I don't want to replicate work.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 13, 2007, 09:39:51 AM
I would say that Tolkien rarely used one word for lack of a better one (he was after all a linguist, and 'vargr' is Old Norse for 'wolf') - if he used the word 'wolf' to describe wargs, that is probably the way he wanted them portrayed. Especially considering how many times he used the word.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 09:50:09 AM
I mean to say: people in Tolkien book (the characters, not the author himself) used the expression "GREAT wolf" do describe a creature that looked like a bigger, twisted, unnatural, evil, version of a wolf. So different from a wolf that they have also a different name all for themselves ("warg").

What about this
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg05.png)    (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg06.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 09:59:49 AM
much better. But still, the shape of the snout makes it look more like a crocodile..a weird bear at best :(
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 13, 2007, 10:03:10 AM

What about this


Much better.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 10:12:23 AM
Then maybe a less bear-ish, more wolf-ish one, like this:

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg07.png)    (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg08.png)

It occurred to me only now that it would maybe be nice if they where 80% wolves but 20% big rats.
BTW I made the tail a little rattesque (since version 1) to avoid it being nice looking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:

tried to make a little rat like face and failed. My old version looks like a rat already actually: (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg04.png).
Now I am undecided. The wolf version above ooks quite wolvish, but also too nice looking (like a good - if strong willed- wolf)?
Rat -version is more monstrous that that, which is good.

Any more suggestions?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 10:37:43 AM
 make the actual upper jaw longer than the lowe one. That'll make it more wolvish. The second try was much better than the first one.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 12:13:40 PM
make the actual upper jaw longer than the lowe one. That'll make it more wolvish. The second try was much better than the first one.

Thanks. Just tried and, well, you were right, it looks more wolvish (left image). But, again, it also look less evil w.r.t. with the longer lower jaw (right image).
Hum... this time I would personally go with the "ugly" version (on the right), but let me know what you think.

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg09.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 12:17:00 PM
well, I won't really mind any of those two. If you'd like to try a "skinny hardened battle wolf", try making the whole head thinner and longer towards the snout. The head of a wolf is rather hairy and fluffy in the base, but the snout has short hair which makes it look rather...don't know :) sticking out.

(http://blog.sunvalleyonline.com/wp-content/images/wolf1.jpg)
(http://www.billybear4kids.com/animal/whose-toes/wolf/WolfStanding.jpg)


maybe these help. Maybe. stressing the fangs some more would help. The texture was a very quick job back then..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 12:40:56 PM
The texture was a very quick job back then..

BTW, the texture you are seeing are not the original one, I remade it already (to make space for the fangs on the front part). If you notice, the model looks decent from the front, unlike the original wolf model.

I wouldn't like wargs to look like the real wolves above, not even the upset one. They must look a lot more like the "300" one posted by Triglav.
For the same reason I made the head larger (make it looks like it will hunt humans rather than rabbits).

But you are totally right about the fangs!!! How didn't I think about that. Will try that (but first the UVmapping must be further imporved there).

Meanwhile...

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg10.jpg)

Look closely. Which of the above looks better, overall?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 13, 2007, 12:46:35 PM
I'd say the middle or the right one. Can't really decide.

And I still recognize the head part in the texture :D I painted the eyes and the teeth over :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 01:02:21 PM
I see, nice work. Actually, I suspected that as I think recognized your touch!
Just if you are curious, I painted over your paint over, to: increase resolution x2 (the fur texture requred this), add frontal teeth (I adapted the u-v parametrization not to be ill defined near the symmetry plane), make the eye brighter, reposition eye+teeth to fit the new model. Tiny detail: the glimpse in the center of the eye is red.

So, anyone? Middle or right one?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 13, 2007, 01:07:42 PM

So, anyone? Middle or right one?

Middle is ok I think.
Lengthen the neck a bit maybe and thin the belly. Paint some ribs maybe too and make the fur more scruffy, yes?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 05:18:36 PM

Triglav: good ideas.
Scruffier fur: beyond my skill. Painted ribs: can't do. Too much fur.

Belly and neck tinned. Claws added (took forever to parametrixe the thing nicely).

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg11.jpg)


Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 05:32:14 PM

Small update: actually, wargs are known to never wash their teeth:

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg12.jpg)

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ursca on October 13, 2007, 05:35:22 PM
You try brushing your teeth when you've got paws.  :P

Looks good. Is it worth doing something extra with the feet? They look a bit square,
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 13, 2007, 05:45:35 PM
Yup. I'd say this looks very mean now.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 13, 2007, 05:51:55 PM
Ursca: I know, but I dare not add any new vertices because if would break Yoshi's rigging.

So far, all the way from the initial rigged model (by Yoshi), I kept a 1-1 vertex relationship, also using the same vertices for the same thing (neck into neck, tail into tail, etc), so that the original Yoshi rigging can be reused at last as a starting set for re-rigging (will it suck or not, I don't know).

Triglav: good! Since my last screenshot, I changed the nose part a little (again) to make it back more wolf-ish. For some reason, it drifted toward bear-ish during my last edits. Too lazy to screenshot it again. I'm done for today.



EDIT: But, for tomorrow, I've a request: do you have a saved game where your character has a warg to ride? Just to test the rigging.

EDIT2: Anybody: interested in trying it out? All files (texture + tentatively rigged resource file) here (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mtarini_wolves_2.zip)
   Just replace files in TLD subfolders.
   Also, feel free to re-edit texture or 3D model if you feel inspired. My version is still not enough evil-side-looking IMO.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 14, 2007, 02:02:54 AM
It looks ok, but the rigging is all messed up. Needs to be redone. See here:

click click (http://www.petrov-petrov.si/%7Etriglav/M&B/wargrig.jpg)

Also in the brf file you duplicated texture and material entries, which gives a CTD when launching game. Remove and it should be ok.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 14, 2007, 11:07:33 AM
Okay, Ill PM Yoshi this week for a re-rig. Ill give a few days to make sure we have a final. It's looking pretty mean.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: emperor77 on October 14, 2007, 11:11:27 AM

Small update: actually, wargs are known to never wash their teeth:

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg12.jpg)


Maybe you should add some dry blood to the varg's face (they are known as VERY violent creatures). But anyway its just a thought.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 14, 2007, 01:32:13 PM
but the rigging is all messed up. Needs to be redone. See here:

Ok. Too bad. Many things can have gone wrong in my old-rigging reuse attempt.
For example, I assumed that the vertex ordering was kept the same during all the import-export operations.
Is the result, like, totally random, or it makes sense but deforms the poor warg here and there?

(What I fail to understand, in the screenshot, is how on earth is the warg mouth (seemingly) attempting to open.)

Anyway, since rigging must be redone, I might as well add a few vertices (just a few) to make the pawns look better

So, good idea to wait for a definitive version before asking Yoshiboy to edit the rigging.

Also in the brf file you duplicated texture and material entries, which gives a CTD when launching game. Remove and it should be ok.

Ok thanks.

Emperor: Blood on face? Worth I try.
(I wish the face of the warg was dynamically bloodied during the the battle with per-vertex coloring, as swords and other weapons are, but that's very likely impossible to mod)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 14, 2007, 02:42:42 PM
Our 4 legged friend now has refined paws, and (traces of) dried blood around it mouth.
(Tried adding more blood, but I it didn't look good. Someone can give another try.)

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg13.png)

(model (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg.obj) [obj file format] and texture (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mt_great_wolf_b.dds)).      Edit: link corrected
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 14, 2007, 02:51:27 PM
I think it already looks pretty awesome. Anyone feels like modeling and texturing a more armored version? leather and all kinds of spikes...oh, I can almost see it :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 15, 2007, 02:41:46 AM
Mtarini - The texture link isn't working
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 15, 2007, 02:54:00 AM
My bad. Here:
(model (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg.obj) and texture (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mt_great_wolf_b.dds)).

Meanwhile, both files have been updated:

Pawns are now a little larger, are decorated with small claws:
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg14.png)

and their below part is decorated as well:
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg15.png)
(it occurred to me that death mounts will show the below part as well).
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Kohlrabi on October 15, 2007, 03:54:02 AM
Is it possible to get rid of their "hooves" now, with the new module system?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 15, 2007, 04:08:22 AM
Do you mean the hooves sound? I was wondering as well.
Is it possible to get rid of
- hooves sound (substitute it with an appropriate pawn sound),
- the neighs, and
- the rampage animation on two legs.

Going on with the wish list, is it possible to add:
+ warg howls at the start of the battle,
+ make a warg dangerous (and killable in melee) even when riderless
   (in this case, make it dangerous to both sides - by dangerous I mean "actively seeking victims to trample"),
+ make battle not over until all riderless wargs are killed too
+ make msgs refer to wargs as "wargs" not "horses" (e.g. when you "delivered 20 damage to horse")

That's daydreaming, right?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 15, 2007, 04:15:59 AM
I think none of that should be possible.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 15, 2007, 04:22:08 AM
Pawns are now a little larger, are decorated with small claws
and their below part is decorated as well
(it occurred to me that death mounts will show the below part as well).

Really nice. I like them a lot.

Now since there are several type of wargs in game, you could make a few texture variations?
Lighter/darker, with different saddles and possible head protection, dogcollars, etc?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: FleshyStarfish on October 15, 2007, 04:24:15 AM
- make battle not over until all riderless wargs are killed too

Please don't implement that idea (while I did like the others).  I usually do battle on purpose as a Rohannite/Gondorian or elf in order to get a warg.  If I have to kill them all, then one of the fun features of getting wargs as a good guy will end.  Of course there is possibility that you could use blunt damage to knock them out, but more than likely they would get killed by another unit.  So, please don't implement this idea.

On another note, is there still some position that needs to be filled?  I'm not of any use for graphics design or programming and am not sure how I could contribute, but anything to help out the TLD community would be a lot of fun.  Just let me know if there's still some vacancies.

FS

PS Nice designs for wargs...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: odvjetnik on October 15, 2007, 04:35:04 AM
Mtarini, the model looks awesome. I have downloaded the it to check it out and i noticed two things that bother me.
2. The model is very brawny and thats fine, but the lower part looks too skinny to support the animal. Don't get me wrong, I like how the torso narrows and how the skeleton is supposed to be, but it needs some more muscle on... the area where the lower legs connect to the body, the "hams", they should be wider, stick out more.
But everything around it is fine as i is.
1. Why are the ears so messed up and have so many pollys? There's more than a 100 i think. Why not trim that, especially if there will be an armored version.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 15, 2007, 04:56:18 AM
odvjetnik: both suggestions make perfect sense. Will try that later, unless you (or someone) wants to try them.

Triglav: is there 3, or 4, different wargs? I would try the armor things (maybe patches literally nailed on the poor animal?) but I need a concept. I can't picture it in my mind. Merlkir seemed to have a few ones in mind. As a concept, a rough paint over one of the rendering would do. Naturally, you (Merlkir, or anybody else) can go on directly editing the model and texture. I'll warn here before editing the models again myself.

FleshyStardish: I am not sure that the number of mounts actually surviving the battle influences the loot. Either case, I am not sure that good guys should be allowed wargs at all either -- even if currently they are (same for any evil guys equipment, when it comes to that). It seems wrong.

About the additions: maybe a technical solution to get most of the "+" features in the above list is to automatically spawn an invisible, zero-hit-box, unarmed, dummy rider directly riding any warg deprived of the rider. That dummy rider should belong to a third side (like in one of the native arena, which if is a 3sided free for all). That way, you get it all: the warg would actively seek victims, be hittable in melee, prevent the battle to end, and be a danger for its former masters as well. Unfortunately, it is probably difficult (or impossible) to make this dummy rider appear and disapper at proper times. It is just an extra possibility to by considered by the mod-savants out there, for 890 or for later versions.
AW?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 15, 2007, 05:07:35 AM
I'll put some warg armor concepts together..probably even today..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Boiled Ice on October 15, 2007, 05:10:04 AM
odvjetnik: both suggestions make perfect sense. Will try that later, unless you (or someone) wants to try them.

Triglav: is there 3, or 4, different wargs? I would try the armor things (maybe patches literally nailed on the poor animal?) but I need a concept. I can't picture it in my mind. Merlkir seemed to have a few ones in mind. As a concept, a rough paint over one of the rendering would do. Naturally, you (Merlkir, or anybody else) can go on directly editing the model and texture. I'll warn here before editing the models again myself.

FleshyStardish: I am not sure that the number of mounts actually surviving the battle influences the loot. Either case, I am not sure that good guys should be allowed wargs at all either -- even if currently they are (same for any evil guys equipment, when it comes to that). It seems wrong.

About the additions: maybe a technical solution to get most of the "+" features in the above list is to automatically spawn an invisible, zero-hit-box, unarmed, dummy rider directly riding any warg deprived of the rider. That dummy rider should belong to a third side (like in one of the native arena, which if is a 3sided free for all). That way, you get it all: the warg would actively seek victims, by hittable in melee, prevent the battle to end, and be a danger for its former masters as well. Unfortunately, it is probably difficult (or impossible) to make this dummy rider appear and disapper at the proper times. It is just an extra possibility to by considered by the mod-savants out there, for 890 or for later versions.
AW?

That's a pretty sweet idea if it can be made to work.  How would the battle end if there were indestructible enemies that you can't see?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 15, 2007, 05:37:11 AM
When all of the custom skeleton and animation stuff gets figured out, it should be possible to build "animal" units (along with full-size trolls and such).  Then, somebody just has to work up all the custom animations and such to make the warg both an attack animal and a ridable mount.  A huge block of work, programming, and creative design ... but one that could be useful to a number of mods, so expecting it eventually is not out of line.  That will also allow for custom animations and sounds, etc, plus animation for an actual bite attack and other cool tricks.

However, any other solution (invisible riders, etc.) are not going to work, for technical reasons.  You're just going to have to wait for somebody to do it right.  That may take a bit to figure out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 15, 2007, 06:33:32 AM
How would the battle end if there were indestructible enemies that you can't see?

Ideally, the ghost dummy rider would spawn (by triggers) when the original warg rider dies (if the warg survived), and be killed (by triggers, again) when the warg itself dies. But as Ron said and I suspected, it cannot be done / wouldn't work (but who knows, AW did what seemed impossible before).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMALL UPDATE: model changed (marginally): beefed up "hams" a little (see odvjetnik post). He was right, it does look better.
If interested in editing it, redownload the model (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/warg.obj) (texture (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/mt_great_wolf_b.dds) is unchanged).

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 15, 2007, 10:11:02 AM
I've put the wargs in the Concept Art thread.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Elpolodiablo on October 16, 2007, 02:48:53 AM
Voices :P

http://files.filefront.com/New+Folder+2rar/;8809600;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/New+Folder+2rar/;8809600;/fileinfo.html)

I can do lots more and sound editing if needed.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 16, 2007, 07:20:41 AM
Voices :P

http://files.filefront.com/New+Folder+2rar/;8809600;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/New+Folder+2rar/;8809600;/fileinfo.html)

I can do lots more and sound editing if needed.

I sent you a PM, check it out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 16, 2007, 09:56:49 AM
Hello.

I'm just fresh from highelf's video tutorials.

How is this?

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8269/secondhelmpr4.th.png) (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secondhelmpr4.png)

It's 616 faces when triangulated.

EDIT:

I was trying to do this:
(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9664/kataphractacs1.th.jpg) (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kataphractacs1.jpg)

But I'm not sure if I interpreted the helmet correctly.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 17, 2007, 09:41:40 AM
Yeah, I think it looks pretty good. Good job.  Ill probably map it to an easterling helm sheet eventually but give texturing a go if you feel like it and I can remap it somewhere later.  Texturing might give us an idea if its ready for prime time or needs some model tweaking.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 17, 2007, 08:58:15 PM
Waving standarts!

 (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/standart_screenshot00.jpg) (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/standart_screenshot00b.jpg)
 (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/standart_screenshot01.jpg)

They are not perfect: they move a lot when you run, which is nice, but when you stay still they stay a little too still (not totally).
However, they are acceptable I think.
If Armagan helps us just a little tiny fraction of a little bit, half line of code in M&B really, then they will be perfect and wave ok also when you stand.

Yes, they should work in 0.89x and in 0.80x. Yes, it is easy to make custom shapes. I was just lazy and left it a rectangle for now.

The trick? A simplified waving-tissue simulator in the vertex shader. There is a few tricks applied there but I will not go technical.


If you want to see it in action, it takes a few steps (see below). Else, just wait for AW to include it in some future verision (if he so wishes).


How to see it in action now: (in 4 steps)

1) First of all, the easy part:
     you need the test model itself: lance_stendart.brf (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/lance_stendart.brf)   (put it into the TLD/Resource folder)
     and the texture lance_standart0.dds (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/lance_standart0.dds) (put it into the TLD/Textures folder)

2) You also need to tell M&B that TLD must use that file.
    Edit TLD/module.ini and insert a line like this at the end: load_mod_resource = lance_stendart

3) You also need to insert the new "shaders".
    Get this file: ADD.TO.mb.fx (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/ADD.TO.mb.fx). It contains the new shaders.
    You must add its content at the end of the file mb.fx which is inside the M&B folder (not the TLD folder, unfortunately).
    If you are lazy, you can get this file mb.fx (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/mb.fx) to substitute with the mb.fx directly -- but this is tested only for version 0.808!
   (In any case this will not disturb the native M&B or any other mod.)

4) Finally, you need to actually make the game use that lance as a model for a weapon.
    The new lance is called lance_standart. Open the file TLD/item_kinds1.txt and replace a few or all lances with the now one.
    This will change the graphics of the lance only. You want do this with weapons that are lances already.
    In each item, the last string before all the numbers is the name of the model that will used. Replace it with lance_standart.
    For the lazy ones, get this file item_kinds1.txt (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/item_kinds1.txt) and use it to replace TLD/item_kinds1.txt.
    Make a backup first! In the new file, basically any lance (including the one used in the arena) is the new lance with the waving standart.
    (note: it is the naive, not RCM version).

Now you can load your old saved game, and any lance will be turned in the new waving lance. Go ride somewhere and see it in action.


Let me know!!!


For AW: to include it in the module for the future, the installer must be instructed to add the new shader (step 3 above) as well. I hope it is not too much of a problem.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 17, 2007, 09:47:15 PM
Hey mtarini, that looks cool! :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 17, 2007, 11:54:56 PM
mtarini, ....I really love you :D in a totally non-gay way. But still...amazing. Thanks.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 18, 2007, 12:36:25 AM
Very awesome!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 18, 2007, 12:59:23 AM
Most cool!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ollieh on October 18, 2007, 01:00:12 AM
Totally sick!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 01:28:39 AM
wait....does it mean we can have waving plumes or....*blasphemous moment*....waving golden rohan hair?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 18, 2007, 05:07:04 AM
Cool stuff!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 06:41:46 AM
Hey thank you all for the comments!
(Merlkir: you are corresponded, in a non gay way of course :) )

Plumes, hairs... hum, maybe.

Did anybody try it out yet? I am not sure I didn't left any file out. Merlkir tested it

Beside, being an animation, you cannot really judge it thorough static screenshots only.
If you and a suggestion or specific comment, go ahead.
But no need to point out that it could wave a little more, and more naturally, when you stand still: I know that. :^(
I think that requires Armagan to let us see a "time" variable from within the shaders. The water shader does that already, but I didn't find a way to activate it for a custom shader.




I'll probably be very scarcely active in the next week or so.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 07:29:14 AM
It works nicely, I like the effect. The model is a quick job and all, but we already have some banners made from a long time ago..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 18, 2007, 08:59:15 AM
Texturing is giving me a real headache.  It's a fun learning process, though.

(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7692/50002280ih5.th.jpg) (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50002280ih5.jpg)

EDIT:

It's a work in progress.  The texture really needs serious work.  I'm just learning along the way.  I'll try to shrink the texture or map it to an existing one if I can.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 09:23:07 AM
It's coming along real nice :) keep it up
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 18, 2007, 11:07:24 AM
Yeah, it's looking good. Keep it up ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 18, 2007, 11:41:28 AM
Texturing is giving me a real headache.  It's a fun learning process, though.

(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7692/50002280ih5.th.jpg) (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50002280ih5.jpg)

EDIT:

It's a work in progress.  The texture really needs serious work.  I'm just learning along the way.  I'll try to shrink the texture or map it to an existing one if I can.

Yeah, would be better to map to an existing TLD texture. Plenty of helmet textures already there.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 12:47:36 PM
Yes, I am a little concerned, as Triglav, to needlessly increase to number of textures that needs to be used at once, especially big ones.

About the waving stendatd, Merlkir is right about the prototipe model being crude. Here is how to make new custom ones.
(the stendart itself is crude, but the horiziontal wooden thinghy that is used to keep the flag up is nice. Needs only to be textured.

First, if you downloaded it already, please REDOWNLOAD and reapply the shader. It is a little improved and fixed.





Small "make new stendart" how-to guide

In the BRF containing the new stendarts, create and use a "material" that uses "standart_shader" as shader (and your texture as the texture, of course).
The shader BRF resource is included in the test stendart brf file. Used texture can be any size (power of 2 as always).

When that shader is activated, different parts of the object will wave or not (and, if so, will wave to a more or less degree) according to their position in the texture (see sketch on the right).

Any object part that is textured with the rightmost quarter of texture will behave normally (no waving). So, use this for all fixed parts of the weapon.

The rest will wave. The amount of waving will decrease (to 0) in the top and in left part of the texture, where the stendart is supposedly tied to a hard fixed support.

Note that this has nothing to do with the actual shape of the stendart in X,Y,Z space. However, it is assumed to lie in the (X=0) plane (it is so just to be a little more performing, but this limitation can be removed in the future if needed).

If you want to shape the stendart more freely (holes, etc), you can still use the usual alpha-masking technique (as normal: activate the "alpha test" in the material and use a texture with an alpha channel).  -- use new version of my shaders: old one ignored alpha.
  (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/explain.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 12:52:40 PM
great! we really have to exploit that :) I'll think about some standard shapes we could use for different races.

Is it possible to have a waving standard set as a shield?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 18, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
No worries, that helm will probably go on some kind of unified easterling helm sheet at a reduced size (which doesnt really exist yet in the current version). Im more concerned with seeing his interpretation of the texture and then the good bits can be moved and optimized later.  It will probably go on the same sheet with the easterling mask helm (minus the harad armor thats there now).

Once this next version is out, it should be easier to point people to specific sheets to use.


Quote
About the waving stendatd, Merlkir is right about the prototipe model being crude. Here is how to make new custom ones.
(the stendart itself is crude, but the horiziontal wooden thinghy that is used to keep the flag up is nice. Needs only to be textured.

Cool.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 18, 2007, 01:07:02 PM
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4285/2ndhelmxx2.th.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmxx2.jpg)

I used what I assume is the variag face helm texture.  I added in a small part in the blank space for holes and fastener thingies.

I'm having trouble testing it in game.  I'm getting RGL errors when I'm running 0.894
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 01:07:53 PM
Merklir: (about shields as stendarts).
Hum, I don't see how shields and stendarts mix. Do you mean to make an left-hand held stendarts that is only "technically" a shield?
That, or you have a concept in mind that I don't.

In any case, I can't see any problem with that. Except two:

1 - clearly, you cannot have, in the same mesh,
  both "alpha means shininess", useful for partly iron stuff (use "iron_shader"),
  and "alpha means transparent", useful for ragged and shaped stendarts (use the new "standart_shader").
  I (or anyone) could make a second a waving shader for partly iron objects, but with no alpha masking.
  Should I? Of course, one can shape the standart with polygons, instead of with alpha channel.

2 - I am not sure that the X=0 plane of the shield is the one you want for the standard. We must try.
    If not so, I need to make a general waving shader that doesn't assume the waving standart is on that plane.
    Takes seconds to do, but I will if needed (just not to waste instructions on the graphic cards).
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 01:12:59 PM
standards "set" as shields (in the left hand) work. The position has to be altered/ rotated, but it works nicely.

aquiefrog: the helmet looks really nice! :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 18, 2007, 01:23:06 PM
aquiefrog: the helmet looks really nice! :)

Thanks!  :green:

I've gonna try to get it in-game tomorrow, and see if it clips with things.  It's past 3 AM and I have work tomorrow.

EDIT:
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2699/2ndhelmingamejs4.th.jpg) (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingamejs4.jpg)

couldn't wait until tomorrow.  Got it in-game, some clipping occurs with certain armours.  I'll figure out the shaders tomorrow....
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 18, 2007, 01:26:08 PM
Yeah, that came out really nice. Good spot for the texture too.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ursca on October 18, 2007, 01:33:35 PM
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 01:43:08 PM
Love that helm!

Aquiefrog: consider adding "dark-glass eye screens":
they are supposed to be holes, of course, but they may well darkened so that the part of the face that will be visible through the holes is realistically darkened. Otherwise, seeing well lit eyes inside a totally closed helm will look strange.
To get this, you need to add the polygons to cover the eyes either assign a per-vertex color of a semitransparent black color (r,g,b=0, alpha = 0.5), or map into a alpha=0.5 colored part of the texture. You can color polygons in BRF edit. Also, you would need to activate "alpha blending" in the used material.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 01:44:07 PM
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

it IS possible, a guy at taleworlds made an alpha shaped shiny spear. I think he used multimesh.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ursca on October 18, 2007, 01:48:49 PM
Unfortunately, you can't multimesh helmets.  :(
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 18, 2007, 01:50:42 PM
Yeah, some objects can be multi-meshed and can use both effects. I dont know which are which off-hand.  I know helms don't multi-mesh at least.

Edit: beaten to it.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 01:58:55 PM
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?


I didn't know that we add access to shaders, either! Yes, there is probably a lot that can be done, but me must think stuff, it is not like there a list of things to do. It is more like general, but constrained, programming. For example, it turns out that, if native didn't have reflective water, we could have programmed it ourselves for our Mods. I mean to say that reflective water is something Aramgan did (or his staff did), but it is not hard wired in M&B. I am quite experenced as shader writer, so propose stuff, and it might be doable. For example, red glowing lava "water" in the background, anybody? I made it as a test, but found that it looked nice.

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

Of course, you can have a fully specular object and alpha-based transparency. But the alpha channel of the texture is mapped either on transparency or on specularity.

Hum, no, you can't have a 5 channeled texture, but here are several ways out of this problem, that might be or not be useful:

1) have per-vertex alpha color dictate transparency, but texture alpha channel dictate specular coefficient (or viceversa) -- this requires another ad-hoc shader.

2) Use one of r,b,g channel for transparency, alpha for specular. The missing color channel can be made up (for example, assume R=G or R=G/2 or whatever).
-- this requires another ad-hoc shader.

3) Use alpha for transparency, and a second texture for translucency (edit: this is what people has been doing). But, I find it boring to edit, handle, load, and consume memory for two textures. Also, additional texture accesses are not free, performance-wise.

When possible, I like the 1 because it is pretty general and cheap on resources.

For these who missed it, vertices can be singularly colored, using BRF edit, or even hacking BRF files with an HEX editor (or in other ways as well).
Normally, RGB color of the vertex (interpolated across the polygon) is mixed (multiplied) with the color coming from the texture.
But the shader can be written to act differently, for example in 1) above.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 02:00:55 PM
you can write shaders?!! I've been trying to learn it for ages :D

- glowing elven weapons?
- glowing elves?
- glowing walls of Minas Morgul?
- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
- the waving plumes and hair would be nice for Rohan..


pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 18, 2007, 02:03:01 PM

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 02:04:36 PM

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.


Barad Dur SHOULD be accessible at some point :) I hope it will be. We can use lava in some interior scenes, the Barad Dur would be cool, Minas Morgul is more ghosty place, so probably not..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 18, 2007, 02:07:55 PM
you can write shaders?!!
Hem, didn't you see the waving stendart one? ;)

pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..

See my post above: can you model it using only polygons that are all shiny and polygons that are all un-shiny? If so, use Alpha to shape the plumes, and use per-vertex alpha to dictate how bright different parts are. I will make the shader that understands it that way. PS: per vertex alpha color can vary smoothly across the surface, doesn't have to be uniform.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 18, 2007, 02:13:09 PM

- lava? :D bring it on! we HAVE to use it somewhere :D
So one day we can count on actually seing Mr. Lighthouse? Urm, i mean Sauron.


Barad Dur SHOULD be accessible at some point :) I hope it will be. We can use lava in some interior scenes, the Barad Dur would be cool, Minas Morgul is more ghosty place, so probably not..
Sweet  :)
Me hopes it too. Me wants to see boss and get my lousy pay!

Seriously though - If it will be implemented, i suggest moving the Mouth of Sauron guy there, AFAIR Sauron couldn't take physical form then. (On the other hand - Talking to an altar or a huge empty throne of some sort could prove interesting)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 18, 2007, 02:55:03 PM
you can write shaders?!!
Hem, didn't you see the waving stendart one? ;)

pity about the helmets. I'm making a plumed elven helm and I was hoping I could use multimesh for the plume and shininess to have separate alphas..

See my post above: can you model it using only polygons that are all shiny and polygons that are all un-shiny? If so, use Alpha to shape the plumes, and use per-vertex alpha to dictate how bright different parts are. I will make the shader that understands it that way. PS: per vertex alpha color can vary smoothly across the surface, doesn't have to be uniform.

- alright, I thought you maybe found the code somewhere :) sorry for that. Ehm...Glowing smokish Balgrog?!!! :D

- ok, I'll give it a shot.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 18, 2007, 09:49:36 PM
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6720/2ndhelmingame2ul4.th.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingame2ul4.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 19, 2007, 06:14:45 AM
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6720/2ndhelmingame2ul4.th.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingame2ul4.jpg)


I can see you used the Easterling mask helm texture for it, cool. Looks good.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 19, 2007, 06:26:14 AM
Since it's apparently possible to make a banner appear to wave using shaders, I wonder what else we can monkey with that way?  Of course, the eventual dream of animated melee weapons (like flails and chain-type stuff) comes to mind ... although that may be far beyond this little trick.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Highlander on October 19, 2007, 06:35:32 AM
That waving standard is very impressive. I didn't think things like that were possible with shaders.
Is there anything else like this that's possible that we don't know about?

Also, when you say there's no way to have specular and transparency on the same object, I suppose it's not possible to have more than one alpha channel?
A specular/transparency shader would be really handy for quite a lot of people. Well, it would be handy for me, at least.  ;)

it IS possible, a guy at taleworlds made an alpha shaped shiny spear. I think he used multimesh.
Not even that anymore, I'm afraid.   :(
In .089x I think there is no more support for multi mesh weapons. The katana in native is now a single mesh and I tried to get a multi mesh as a weapon in game and it didn't work.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 19, 2007, 06:48:39 AM
Ron: you are right. It is possible to program a rotating flail and chain, the difficult part is interaction between the object and the rest of the world, both ways. Without that interaction, it will look a little silly I'm afraid, like: rotate rotate rotate no matter what.

By "difficult" I mean "tricky in general, but 100% impossible if you can only control the shader and not the rest of the game code --- which is our case".

Interaction is "difficult" both ways, that is: make the chain react with the stuff it collides, make rotation of the chain influence whether something is collided or not.

(And this is all about chains, right? Also functionally: I hear that one main objective of chain-based weapons is make the stick hit on the opponent shield, make the chain rotate and hit guy behind the shield.)

Still, it could be attempted for, say, a chainsaw or something like that (not for TLD ;))
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 19, 2007, 06:59:49 AM
Yeah, well, the functionality of flail weapons would entail more than just animating them ... but it's a thought to keep around.

And yeah, part of the logic of flail weapons is that it is murder to block one, because it wraps around whatever you use to block it and the head keeps coming at you.  The other part is getting a lot of reach suddenly. 

Neither one of those can be done solely with shaders, I'm sure ... but if, say, somebody managed to build a weapon that worked on a custom skeleton, the shader trick could be extremely useful in making the chain look right, and details like that.

Actually, you would not want to just spin a flail.  You would tire quickly.  Half a rotation before the strike is about as much spin as most people could stand.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 19, 2007, 07:06:31 AM
what about slings? not that TLD needs them, but it would be cool for ancient mods and stuff.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 19, 2007, 07:13:32 AM
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6720/2ndhelmingame2ul4.th.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingame2ul4.jpg)


Probably just have to scale the mesh a bit, maybe modify the mask angle a tiny bit... If you dont feel like it I can give it a shot when we get closer to release.  Good job though.

EDIT: Looking at the shape again it probably wont be entirely fixable for all beard types but that's life. Looks good.

EDIT2: Maybe you could take a crack at that other mask helm with a similar look. That mask might require its own unique texture for the mask to make the contours come off right. Could be tricky. The rest can use the basic easterling helm sheet stuff though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 19, 2007, 07:19:31 AM
what about slings? not that TLD needs them, but it would be cool for ancient mods and stuff.

At last check, anything using the "thrown weapon" skill can't leave anything in the hand.  That's why Mesoamerica couldn't do a proper atlatl.  An animated sling might be able to replace firearms in Holy War or the like (although Mesoamerica uses the firearms skill, so it won't work there).

I'm with you there ... TLD doesn't need slings, but we ought to milk this goat dry.  Somebody can surely use them.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 19, 2007, 07:29:24 AM
I actually wanted to give the dunnish some slingers seeing as they have a primitive celt thing going on.  Might call them "crebain skirmishers" or some such. Also, the poor hobbits might need them..... :P  D&D hobbits and slings are like shit and flies, I dont know of any tolkien hobbit reference to it though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 19, 2007, 07:32:44 AM
There is one single reference to slings in the works of Tolkien (that I know of, at least). It's from the tale of Tal-Elmar in 'The Peoples of Middle-earth', where it says that Tal-Elmar had no weapon but a casting-stone in a pouch.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 19, 2007, 07:39:28 AM
Chain-based weapons: just an idea: maybe if the shader was instrctred to: make the chain rotate horizontally when the stick is held vertically, but make the chain gradually turn to align with the stick (therefore nullifyng the other rotation) when the stick it is held horizontally. That is possible to do.
Would that look any decent, given how the one handed weapons are held during stance and attack?

(Still, you would not see the arm of the wilder moving to give the chain its rotation. I am afraid it will look like a servo-assisted weapon)

(And, by a long shot, not a replacement for a real physical system of course.)


Slings: I wonder it if is possible. We would also need a custom skeletal animation for the slinger, otherwise it will have to be held like a bow, a crossbow, or a handgun. I think. Anyone confirm? And, can custom skeletal animation be done?


PS: I am worried that all this chat on shaders is littering this thread (supposedly used to hire volunteers on "Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs"). Shall it be moved to a "What to do with shader" specific thread? Not another pinned one, there's many already.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 19, 2007, 07:56:36 AM
Custom animation can be done.  Over on HW, Raz has changed around all of the animations.  If we want to replace a firearm function with a sling, just replace the handgun animation with whatever horrendous antics seem appropriate to using a sling.  That's easy for anybody who knows beans about animations (not saying I do ... I most certainly do not, but I know that many people do).

And if trying to mess with shaders to make an animated sling isn't "Miscellaneous Jobs", what is it?  But seeing the point, nobody is stopping you from moving it to its own thread, either in TLD or somewhere like the modding discussions thread (which would be more likely to draw help from sources that don't normally work on TLD).

I doubt a flail or chain-based weapon can be made to look right, no matter what.  The most reasonable look would involve the weapon hanging down until the attack started, extending during the swing, and returning to hanging loose after.  That's going to be real hard to do without a truly animated weapon, which M&B still does not support.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 19, 2007, 10:59:47 AM
Probably just have to scale the mesh a bit, maybe modify the mask angle a tiny bit... If you dont feel like it I can give it a shot when we get closer to release.  Good job though.

EDIT: Looking at the shape again it probably wont be entirely fixable for all beard types but that's life. Looks good.

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1057/2ndhelmingame3fn4.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingame3fn4.jpg)

I rescaled the mesh a bit and deformed it arbitrarily.  I think only the bigger beards would clip.  Also, I imported the variag lamellar texture into 0.894 to see if the helm looks coherent with the armor.  I'm not sure I like the leather texture for the back part of the helm so I changed it to have the grey texture.  The original face helm is there for comparison.

I've removed some vertices that i thought were insignificant, I've got the tri count to 702.  It used to have 600+ until I added the fasteners at the side (something I came up with because I can't figure out what the ear-like things are on the reference pic).

EDIT2: Maybe you could take a crack at that other mask helm with a similar look. That mask might require its own unique texture for the mask to make the contours come off right. Could be tricky. The rest can use the basic easterling helm sheet stuff though.

I'll try. Is it the one without the mouth opening?  The other mask helm is marked as being worked on already.

Mtarini:  I'll try adding "dark-glass eye screens" when I figure out how to do what you told me to do.  Still a newbie.  :-[

Dablade: The filename of the reference picture had "kataphract" in it, I thought it was rather suggestive.

EDIT:

Re: Chain Weapons,  Can weapons be subjected to ragdoll physics?

yeah, the one that says its being worked on. I believe he had some real life trouble. Really you would just need to make the mask, work on a texture for it with some shading to give it contours and then you can plug it in to either of the other mask helm tops.  Should give the variags some mask options.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on October 19, 2007, 12:07:25 PM
There is one single reference to slings in the works of Tolkien (that I know of, at least). It's from the tale of Tal-Elmar in 'The Peoples of Middle-earth', where it says that Tal-Elmar had no weapon but a casting-stone in a pouch.

Gondolin had its own regiment of slingers as well.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 20, 2007, 04:11:31 AM
There is one single reference to slings in the works of Tolkien (that I know of, at least). It's from the tale of Tal-Elmar in 'The Peoples of Middle-earth', where it says that Tal-Elmar had no weapon but a casting-stone in a pouch.

Gondolin had its own regiment of slingers as well.

Interesting - I cannot remember reading about that. Can you remember which HoMe book it is from?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 20, 2007, 05:36:28 AM
There is one single reference to slings in the works of Tolkien (that I know of, at least). It's from the tale of Tal-Elmar in 'The Peoples of Middle-earth', where it says that Tal-Elmar had no weapon but a casting-stone in a pouch.

Gondolin had its own regiment of slingers as well.

Interesting - I cannot remember reading about that. Can you remember which HoMe book it is from?
Gondolin had all sorts of weird forces. For example - a hammer-men regiment :|

I think it's from the Lost Tales (Or how was that called), most of this weirdness was there.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 20, 2007, 06:19:29 AM
Hammer-armed regiments don't sound strange.  The military hammer was one of the most popular sidearms of the middle ages.  Also, pole-hammers were common both for mounted and foot knights for centuries.

Then again, the sling was among the most common weapons on Earth up until the late Roman Empire, and is still often seen about the Middle East today.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 20, 2007, 06:55:44 AM
Hammer-armed regiments don't sound strange.  The military hammer was one of the most popular sidearms of the middle ages.  Also, pole-hammers were common both for mounted and foot knights for centuries.

Then again, the sling was among the most common weapons on Earth up until the late Roman Empire, and is still often seen about the Middle East today.

You don't understand me. Hammers at war don't sound weird. ELVES WITH HAMMERS sound weird :P
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 20, 2007, 06:58:35 AM
Hammer-armed regiments don't sound strange.  The military hammer was one of the most popular sidearms of the middle ages.  Also, pole-hammers were common both for mounted and foot knights for centuries.

Then again, the sling was among the most common weapons on Earth up until the late Roman Empire, and is still often seen about the Middle East today.

You don't understand me. Hammers at war don't sound weird. ELVES WITH HAMMERS sound weird :P

Well, "elves" sound weird no matter what.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 20, 2007, 07:06:23 AM
Hammer-armed regiments don't sound strange.  The military hammer was one of the most popular sidearms of the middle ages.  Also, pole-hammers were common both for mounted and foot knights for centuries.

Then again, the sling was among the most common weapons on Earth up until the late Roman Empire, and is still often seen about the Middle East today.

You don't understand me. Hammers at war don't sound weird. ELVES WITH HAMMERS sound weird :P

Well, "elves" sound weird no matter what.
Not for me.
Point taken though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Highlander on October 20, 2007, 12:44:27 PM
mtarini:
I just tried that shader in 894, it looks really nice!
There is a problem with the lightening though. The mesh is very dark.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 20, 2007, 01:50:22 PM
mtarini:
I just tried that shader in 894, it looks really nice!
There is a problem with the lightening though. The mesh is very dark.

Thanks for the testing!
How dark? Like, totally black? I will try to see which one of the assumptions I was making broke from 0.80x to 0.89x.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Highlander on October 20, 2007, 02:03:24 PM
Not totally black:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9612/newscreen1dp0.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 20, 2007, 02:25:35 PM
Does anybody know a cheat to get a sunny day? I can't test this due to stoooooopid fog and rain. Day after day.
My standard seem fine, is such a dark weather.

(but, I adjusted it to behave better with: faster horses, larger fields, both of which affected the way it waves. It is supposed to look better -- wave less -- than the one in the screenshot above)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 20, 2007, 04:00:08 PM
Ok, that should be fixed.

redownload the ADD.TO.mb.fx (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/ADD.TO.mb.fx) and reappend it.
New version should work with both the 0.80x and 0.89x versions. (let me know)

I double checked the shading (removing most textures, to see clearer) and it seems ok now:

 (http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/standart/standart_screenshot03.jpg)
[test in M&B 0.892 native- many textures removed]

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 20, 2007, 05:31:30 PM
beards are going to be a problem.  :-[

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6720/2ndhelmingame2ul4.th.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndhelmingame2ul4.jpg)


The helm REALLY looks good.

I just want to explain my "glass eyelid" suggestion here. I've been trying before (for other helms as well), and failed to explain myself, so this time I am using a sketch.

What I am suggesting is that you add a few alpha transparent polygons where the shadow should be.
Their color should be back, but the per vertex alpha should be semitransparent (alpha=0.5 or so) to fully transparent (alpha=0.0).

like this (A stands for alpha):
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/helm/expl02.jpg)
which should look like this:
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/helm/expl02w.jpg)

So that:

(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/helm/expl01.jpg)
face parts under and behind
the helm are too well lit.





+
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/helm/expl02w.jpg)
shadowing polygons





=
(http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/~tarini/tmp/newmap/helm/expl03.jpg)
problem solved
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on October 20, 2007, 07:07:27 PM
Interesting - I cannot remember reading about that. Can you remember which HoMe book it is from?

I believe it's from the tale of the Fall of Gondolin. I think the folk of the Tree wielded clubs and slings, or something like that. I'll browse through the book a bit, see if I catch the paragraph.

EDIT:

Yeah, I checked it the lazy man's way - wiki'd it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondolin

Apparently, the Bar-en-Galadh wielded clubs and slings.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Apoc on October 21, 2007, 12:03:20 AM
Interesting - I cannot remember reading about that. Can you remember which HoMe book it is from?

I believe it's from the tale of the Fall of Gondolin. I think the folk of the Tree wielded clubs and slings, or something like that. I'll browse through the book a bit, see if I catch the paragraph.

EDIT:

Yeah, I checked it the lazy man's way - wiki'd it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondolin

Apparently, the Bar-en-Galadh wielded clubs and slings.

Thanks!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on October 21, 2007, 07:30:45 AM
Thanks!

No problem.

What strikes me as strange is that the Folk of the Fountain wore crystalline armour and wielded huge longswords and generally wrought havoc, and the House of the Hammer of Wrath wielded maces and killed Balrogs and Dragons and felled seven times their own number in their last stand.

And then there's Galdor's House of the Tree. They had clubs. And slings.

Poor chap.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on October 21, 2007, 08:11:23 AM
Don't underestimate a sling.  The Roman Legions both used and feared them, and their military surgeons carried pliers specifically designed to remove various sizes of sling pellets from a human body.  Goliath of Gath was brought down by a Benjamite-type Hebrew sling.  Egypt, Persia, Babylon, the Aztecs ... great empires used slings as often as bows.  They are NOT a weapon to be taken lightly.  Underestimating a sling is a good way to find a stone the size of a golf ball just slightly to the left of your spleen.  They're a LOT more deadly than many of the popular calibers of automatic handguns these days.  I am not kidding. 

Of course, slings dropped in popularity because it's a real pain to learn to use one.  Also true of the atlatl dart, and more recently the bow, for that matter.  Crossbows, and later guns, phased them out just because of ease of use.

I suspect Tolkien was not using drugs, or at least not any new drugs, when assigning slings to a group as their primary missile weapons.  Slings have a very strong performance record.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 21, 2007, 09:45:12 AM
Of course, slings dropped in popularity because it's a real pain to learn to use one.

And, rate of fire?

In my imagination, a slingshot takes long seconds to charge effectively with kinetic energy. I guess there was an ideal number of rotations to be made before shooting, that the slinged troops were instructed to use -- but that's my guessing. Intuition also tells me that they might be an intrinsically inaccurate weapon (w.r.t bows or crossbows). Finally, I expect an heavy stone to fly a way shorter distance than an aerodynamic arrow (which damages because of its sharp point, other than because of its pure kinetic energy). Confirmation or denial of this guesswork by the informed ones? (Ron?)

(Also: I know the comparison with modern firearms is just for the sake of showing how dangerous a slingshot can be, but there's no match, military-wise, between something crude as a sling and a weapon that can fired, say, while lying on the ground, or thought a hole as big as a fist, and with a latency of the time needed to push a trigger, etc. -- but ths is going way off topic)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DSparil on October 21, 2007, 03:30:22 PM
Quick question about waving standards, is this free for anyone to use in mods? or is it TLD exclusive?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 21, 2007, 04:04:55 PM
Sure.

What would be the point of preventing its use in other mods?
It's not like MODs are in competition with each other, quite the opposite in facts.
Acknowledge your sources -- that's the general rule -- and go ahead.

(Unless, AW has some specific policy for stuff made for TLD and appearing in this forum. But I don't think so.)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on October 21, 2007, 04:37:21 PM
Don't underestimate a sling.  The Roman Legions both used and feared them, and their military surgeons carried pliers specifically designed to remove various sizes of sling pellets from a human body.  Goliath of Gath was brought down by a Benjamite-type Hebrew sling.  Egypt, Persia, Babylon, the Aztecs ... great empires used slings as often as bows.  They are NOT a weapon to be taken lightly.  Underestimating a sling is a good way to find a stone the size of a golf ball just slightly to the left of your spleen.  They're a LOT more deadly than many of the popular calibers of automatic handguns these days.  I am not kidding. 

Of course, slings dropped in popularity because it's a real pain to learn to use one.  Also true of the atlatl dart, and more recently the bow, for that matter.  Crossbows, and later guns, phased them out just because of ease of use.

I suspect Tolkien was not using drugs, or at least not any new drugs, when assigning slings to a group as their primary missile weapons.  Slings have a very strong performance record.

I'm not underestimating them - nor the atlatls, those are reputed to have been hurled through a Conquistador's plate armour on both sides and stuck him in a tree.

I'm just saying - crystalline and longswords vs. clubs and slings!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 21, 2007, 05:20:40 PM
Quote
(Unless, AW has some specific policy for stuff made for TLD and appearing in this forum. But I don't think so.)

Not including this mtarini stuff here but for the general stuff like costumes, models or menu art I usually reserve it for TLD only.  Though Ive loaned out things here or there to other mods.  The only real point is to keep the mod looking somewhat unique while its under active development.  If other mods looked like TLD (especially to a great degree) I just wouldnt bother modding. 

Conversely we dont borrow graphics from other big mods.  I'm sure many mods have stuff we could use but that  wouldnt be fun for me.  The idea is to make it look as unique as possible within the community and that means everything takes longer for us.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 21, 2007, 08:21:09 PM
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2817/3rdhelmbrfeditiq6.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3rdhelmbrfeditiq6.jpg)

preliminary model.  I can see a few errors in the model here and there, but I'm not sure how they happened.  I'll try adding textures for facial contours later.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 21, 2007, 11:03:19 PM
aquiefrog: very cool! But, I am a little confused: what is that? The new version of the previous helm or another type of helm? Sorry, I probably should know that.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What AW says about model sharing between MODs makes perfect sense.

My point of view is that most of the stuff created for TLD is specifically Tolkein oriented, so other MODs should not have a place for them (unless they were Tolkien related mods too, in which case they should probably merge with this project anyway -- becoming a subproject like the movie sub-mod).

So that applies also to "my" Tolkien specific stuff like wargs or Argonaths or Saruman-handsign -- or the map (I have only partial authorship of all this stuff of course). If one was reusing any of that pretending that its LOTR nature is not important, probably he is misusing it without respecting the work that went into making it.

On the other hand, general useful stuff like the standart (or the procedural snow, or the mountain "style")... I think that they are just general improvement that should be reused where appropriate by other mods (or native, even) -- likewise, we should be allowed to borrow similarly general improvement from other mods (like we burrowed reflective water on map, I think). Same should go for the new GetAssista's fords, for example: it is a trick which is useful in general. (same for the weapon size reduction, etc).

(Naturally it always takes someone's permission to use his/her stuff (and even then, explicit crediting is due). I'm just stating what in my opinion people should allow to others)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 22, 2007, 05:49:50 AM
mtarini: it's another type of helm.  AW said I should try making the other mask helm.  I took the upper part of the helm I made, made the mask, then stuck in the native mail coif model and combined the models.  It's crudely done, and the tri count is nearly 900.  I've deleted a lot of vertices that are unseen but there are some problems.  I might start this one over from scratch.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Yoshiboy on October 23, 2007, 12:31:34 PM
mtarini, how interested (or able) would you be in writing a normalmap and specmap shader (specmap could be alpha channel of normalmap). I know we kind of already have spec maps with the iron shader but aren't they a little different to the conventional spec maps used in combination with normal maps. I don't know much about shaders but isn't the main issue here making them work with the animation of the verts when the models move?

Anyway, if you were to write this I would happily spend time creating normalmaps and spec maps for some or all of the TLD texture and native textures. I just think it would look so kickass.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 23, 2007, 02:49:13 PM
normal maps....aaah...*drools*
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: mtarini on October 23, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
mtarini, how interested (or able) would you be in writing a normalmap and specmap shader

can do.

I would say that a good, general setup could incorporate:

1* in the "bump" texture: XYZ Normal + specular
2* in the "diffuse" texture: RGB + transparency

Is that what we need? That (or small variations of that) wouldn't be a problem at all.

(Note: accessing two textures and computing lighting per pixel --both of which are required in that setup-- is considerably more computationally expensive than what the iron shader does. So it could have an impact on performance, especially when the objects will cover a large amount of pixels on the screen.)


I know we kind of already have spec maps with the iron shader but aren't they a little different to the conventional spec maps used in combination with normal maps

Yep. Sometimes, a specmap defines specular exponents per texel. In the Ironshader, they specify just a multiplicative weight in [0..1] for the specular term (the exponent is defined globally in the material instead). Is that the difference you are talking about? But that's not a big difference results-wise, I imagine.

Anyway, that can be very easily changed too.



All of what I said so far, is for a fixed (non rigged) objects.

I don't know much about shaders but isn't the main issue here making them work with the animation of the verts when the models move?

You are right in that this can be an issue.

Let me have a look at the current shader for rigged (i.e. animated with a skeleton) meshes

[... time passes...]

Hum, I think I got that.

In this settings, there are techniques to attach a normal map to that too. Just a little more expensive, but not too much. The normal map should define normals in Object space (as normal maps always do in M&B, from what I see in the shaders); but here there is one more thing: they must define the normals when the object is in the neutral pose. Edit: rephrased a little.

Also, it will be just an approximation, but should look quite decently, at least if the deformations caused by the pose of the skeleton does not introduce too severe deformations of the skin (like stretching of compression of areas, or non uniform re-scalings).


Just curious: how would you make the normal maps?


As for the implementation times, I predict that I will in totally deep real life **i* for about two weeks, until arond 1st of nov.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ursca on October 23, 2007, 04:45:50 PM
I've opened a thread here (http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,1016.0.html), for any non-TLD specific shader stuff.

Not that I don't think everyone reads the TLD forums, but some of this stuff could do with more exposure.  :P
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 24, 2007, 12:36:46 AM

I built a helm based on Melkir's ironhead dwarf concept pic the other day.  This is all scaled, textured and .obj format (from Maya).     Still needs importing into BRFEdit and weight painting.  Not very familiar with BFREdit - if I can paint weights in Maya and import I'd be happy to do that too...  I had issues importing the DDS file into BRFEdit?  Object imported fine though.

I prefer the art gritty and dark compared to the fantasy fluff that is currently so popular.  I tried to give the helm teeth like some nasty underground critter the dwarves might represent in their war art.

I used the gondor_coif for a base (scale).  Eerything else is new.  It is 340 polys, not sure what the standards are. 

If you want this as-is or modified, and maybe a few more models, let me know.  I play it enough I feel I owe you folks something - hopefully its good enough...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/ibebrutus/ironheadViews.jpg)

 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Balduran on October 24, 2007, 12:38:58 AM
I know you all want to improve and so on, but please remember about the loosers with crappy computers...  ;)
It already takes ages to load a game.

Brutus-> Great model! But those teeth really don't fit a dwarf... A goblin maybe, but not a Khazad.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 24, 2007, 01:26:50 AM
Brutus: great! The model itself is very good. The golden/bronze plating is also good. But :)

- don't fear to add more details to the texture! Dwarves would decorate like wild monkeys. I would suggest more subtle engravings in the steel, like runes, you can add some breathing holes or just some decorative rims, use celtic/viking/germanic patterns to break the steel mask a bit. Add some little rivets that hold the gold plating to the helmet..etc.
- the teeth are...hm, I felt I stressed them too much in the concept too. Make them engraved in the steel. If you want something golden, add some moustache, or make the noseguard golden decorated/plated.

But it's very nice work so far :) just needs a bit to finish. Thanks :)


edit: maybe...just maybe! :) try making the chainmail link smaller. I paint them rather big, but that's because I don't want to spend my whole life painting maille :D dwarves would rather use smaller ones. They'd be more bendable and the little added weight doesn't concern the dwarves much..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 24, 2007, 01:40:26 AM
Som really wild designs from WH dwarves. But it gives the idea a bit:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_03.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_03.jpg)
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_04.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_04.jpg)
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_05.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_05.jpg)

but darker, worn out grim look is good :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on October 24, 2007, 02:35:57 AM
Wow, I love those WH concepts! The 'epic' ones we'd be wise to avoid, but the others, before they get too flamboyant and unrealistic(engineer pauldrons with mechanical arms, eh? :P), would be nice to explore in TLD. I also agree that Dwarven armour and weaponry would be embellished and engraved and whatnot to the extremes. Very meticulous little bastards.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 24, 2007, 09:56:14 AM
Som really wild designs from WH dwarves. But it gives the idea a bit:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_03.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_03.jpg)
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_04.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_04.jpg)
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_05.jpg (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/conceptArt/ConArt20070905_05.jpg)

but darker, worn out grim look is good :)

Merlkir I love your sketches.  I just paint them gritty in my mind.  8)  When I read the books, I thought of the setting as more dirty, maybe early-iron age even before steel.  Refugees, dark magical terror, and global tragedy.  I am sure my opinions here are not in line with the books... 

The helm was field armor.  If you guys play M&B like I do your character probably doesnt spend many days in parades, or even towns for that matter.  Armor gets flat and dirty almost instantly - not that this is a reality mod either...  The mail on the helm was meant to be large bronze rings sewn on to leather, and not so much the tight steel links that was indeed most desireable.  I admit it is not the greatest of textures regardless. :D 

I am familiar with the WK40K stuff and I love it!!!  But, thats another game.  That look and feel is copied in every fantasy game available now.  To me it looks puffy, plastic, and commercialized in a fantasy (not sci-fi) game.  But, if you guys want the model you can modify it and/or the texture it however you wish.  I am familiar with modding and know stuff needs to fit in with other art.  "Too many cooks in the kitchen..." thing. 

Besides, you guys have great texture artists already. To be honest, I figured whoever does your other textures would do this one as well.  It looks kind of lame when you have 2 different mail textures next to each other, i.e., helm and armor textures made by two different artists using different source art.  I just wanted something besides a checker pattern on it.
 

 



 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 24, 2007, 11:01:24 AM
I think my first mask helm is more or less finished (just need to do mtarini's suggestion)

this is work in progress of the second mask helm i made.  910 tri's.  I'll clean up the faces and remove insignificant vertices when I'm satisfied with the overall shape.  I'll also do the contour textures later.

(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6729/3rdhelmingamecm6.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3rdhelmingamecm6.jpg)

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 24, 2007, 12:04:06 PM
Looking good! I suggest moving your models/textures posts to the concept art topic from now on (we should continue discussion there), and leave this to posts offering help. ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Fisheye on October 24, 2007, 12:28:58 PM
aquiefrog, I think I remember a post where you were worried about beards clipping past your mask helm.

I think (haven't checked) that the new itp_covers_head prevents rendering of the character's head(and therefore, beard). So it will be fine (as will the ironhead dwarf helmet).
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on October 24, 2007, 01:27:56 PM
aquiefrog, I think I remember a post where you were worried about beards clipping past your mask helm.

I think (haven't checked) that the new itp_covers_head prevents rendering of the character's head(and therefore, beard). So it will be fine (as will the ironhead dwarf helmet).

I think that would only work with great helm style helmets where the helmet covers the entire head, the eye slits being just a black texture.  However the mask helms I made followed the style of the variag mask helm where in a significant portion of the head is visible through the mask.  I think if I use itp_covers_head, the result would make it look like a headless character with a floating helm.

regarding the beards, I've made some adjustments near the chin area to give allowance for beards, but it's not a fix for all beards.  Even some native helms clip with beards so I guess that it's acceptable.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 24, 2007, 01:37:48 PM


Merlkir I love your sketches.  I just paint them gritty in my mind.  8)  When I read the books, I thought of the setting as more dirty, maybe early-iron age even before steel.  Refugees, dark magical terror, and global tragedy.  I am sure my opinions here are not in line with the books... 

The helm was field armor.  If you guys play M&B like I do your character probably doesnt spend many days in parades, or even towns for that matter.  Armor gets flat and dirty almost instantly - not that this is a reality mod either...  The mail on the helm was meant to be large bronze rings sewn on to leather, and not so much the tight steel links that was indeed most desireable.  I admit it is not the greatest of textures regardless. :D 

I am familiar with the WK40K stuff and I love it!!!  But, thats another game.  That look and feel is copied in every fantasy game available now.  To me it looks puffy, plastic, and commercialized in a fantasy (not sci-fi) game.  But, if you guys want the model you can modify it and/or the texture it however you wish.  I am familiar with modding and know stuff needs to fit in with other art.  "Too many cooks in the kitchen..." thing. 

Besides, you guys have great texture artists already. To be honest, I figured whoever does your other textures would do this one as well.  It looks kind of lame when you have 2 different mail textures next to each other, i.e., helm and armor textures made by two different artists using different source art.  I just wanted something besides a checker pattern on it.

 

of course! :) just send the model and texture to DaBlade (or me or AW) and we'll do something about it if we really feel the need to change it. :) thanks
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 24, 2007, 04:58:05 PM
I will move this to concept art thread and repost when done playing. 

I modified the model because it seemed people liked the shape.  I found the M&B head model so the eyes are lined up so I opened the eye slits.  I redid the UV map too.  Apparently the art standard is higher than I was aware of for M&B. :D  I am reskinning it while Im on it - just for something to do (not that it cant be scrapped later too :P)

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 24, 2007, 06:07:47 PM
Cool. Thanks for the help Brutus. Looking good.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 29, 2007, 09:40:30 AM
Yoshi is really busy lately so we could probably use a rigger for the modified warg. Riggers tend to be a little scarce but I thought I'd put it out there.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 29, 2007, 10:25:32 AM
I can rig, paint weights, and animate.  Hardly a pro, and my experience is limited to Maya...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 29, 2007, 10:37:54 AM
I can rig, paint weights, and animate.  Hardly a pro, and my experience is limited to Maya...

I think it's fine, Maya should have an exporter for the file type BRFedit can chew..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 29, 2007, 11:40:31 AM
Here was my first rig and walk animation (for UT2k4).  The media kinda stinks so it doesn't loop, let alone loop correctly.  Looks better in game but you can at least see what I could do. :P

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v315/ibebrutus/?action=view&current=walkfront.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v315/ibebrutus/?action=view&current=walkrear.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v315/ibebrutus/?action=view&current=walkside.flv

Here was my concept art and rotoscope of the model, just for kicks. :D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/ibebrutus/sidewref.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 29, 2007, 11:47:18 AM
the rigging in MaB so far has been fairly simple. You have a native skeleton and you just have to make the mesh match and respond without any clipping. Once we get the custom skeletons, it's gonna get interesting :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 29, 2007, 03:17:39 PM
That's great that you can rig.  I sent you the mtarini modified warg and texture for when you get a chance.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 29, 2007, 08:21:25 PM
Looking grim for us Maya users if M&B uses SMD files.  Im investigating and will try to find an answer but Im not holding my breath.  I have failed in the past getting SMDs into/outta Maya for a HL2 mod.  If there are GMAX/3Ds or XSI users they can probably help you much easier.

Damn SMD files!!!

 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Senta on October 29, 2007, 08:29:56 PM
Looking grim for us Maya users if M&B uses SMD files.  Im investigating and will try to find an answer but Im not holding my breath.  I have failed in the past getting SMDs into/outta Maya for a HL2 mod.  If there are GMAX/3Ds or XSI users they can probably help you much easier.

Damn SMD files!!!

 

i thought maya supports smd export... or at the very least there are some plug ins etc.

PS: this is something that could possibly help, not sure as i am no expert and youmight have already tried this:

- From the Valve Dev Wiki (specifies Maya 7, but can be used with any version of Maya)

The Source SDK comes with scripts that allow Maya to import and export SMD files. In order to use them, we must put them in the correct Maya scripts folder. So, copy the contents of the ...\SteamApps\<account name>\sourcesdk\maya\4.5\scripts\ to the \maya\7.0PLE\scripts\ folder in My Documents. Now we need to tweak two of the script files to avoid version compatibility problems. Go into \maya\7.0PLE\scripts\smd\ (the folder you just pasted), select both smdRead.mel and smdMakeShader.mel, right-click, select Properties, and uncheck "Read-only." Now open smdMakeShader.mel with Notepad and change the line

connectAttr -f ($place + ".mirror") ($fileTex + ".mirror");

to

//connectAttr -f ($place + ".mirror") ($fileTex + ".mirror");

Save and close. Now open smdRead.mel with Notepad and change the line

print `system "time"`;

to

//print `system "time"`;

Save and close.  Open up Maya, and the import smd and export smd options will be in the File menu. 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 29, 2007, 08:57:01 PM
Thanks Senta.  I have seen/done this drill for a HL2 mod.  Still huge issues though.  Thats why I am not modding Source... :P 

I have Pralls plugin installed correctly and I do have an import SMD button.  When I import the SMD file though it only shows some strange symbol and nothing else I can identify or manipulate.

I posted on the Taleworlds modding area.  Hopefully someone there can help. 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: alemic on October 29, 2007, 10:06:50 PM
do you guys still need somebody to make a tech tree? because im willing to help you guys with that if you need it

also i doubt you guys need this but im also decent at like helping players find out how to fix there games though i cant seem to figure out the problem with running it on my vista laptop :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 30, 2007, 12:20:42 AM
do you guys still need somebody to make a tech tree? because im willing to help you guys with that if you need it


if it's troop trees you mean, no. Not really.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on October 30, 2007, 05:39:17 PM
The job was for making the actual schematics but I think Triglav has a good visual system now that he used on the gondor troop tree map.  Once that gets done Ill either imitate it for the other factions (or get someone to imitate it) so thats on hold I think.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: alemic on October 30, 2007, 07:34:28 PM
sorry wrong topic ignore post/delete.....
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 31, 2007, 02:53:32 AM
sorry wrong topic ignore post/delete.....

nope, it was a right thread. It's just that Triglav is really working on them now..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: alemic on October 31, 2007, 01:12:15 PM
nono i meant that post was in the wrong thread. i was replying to the map one and i got my tabs mixed up. sorry :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on November 15, 2007, 12:05:53 PM
found this on TW in the 3D model thread. Could be cool to have scenes like this for instance in..the Minas Morgul prison mission?

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9176/whramparts2td6.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: pagan on December 05, 2007, 02:10:01 AM
are voices still needed, i have a deep voice, good for barbarian types. i was a heavy metal singer for many years before i decided to put all my efforts into the music side of things. composing and so on. feel free to PM me with spacifics and ill give it a shot. i love this mod so ill help in any way i can. currently im composing a score to hopefully be used for the warhammer mod, but composition is often insperation driven, so if i compose something more lord of the ringish, i'd be glade to offer it up. 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on December 05, 2007, 09:38:57 AM
Hey great. We could still use some dunlending voices. Maybe try some gutteral english and some heavy celtic/barbarian sounding babble. Some phrases you could work with are on the first page but other ideas for them include:

Some reference to saruman, maybe "..the white wizard commands!", "Fear the white hand!", etc.
Some phrase using the term "forgoil" which means strawheads (slang for rohirrim). Either attached to babble or gutteral english.

We could certainly use some original music so anything tolkieny you come up with that might fit is more than welcome.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Dain Ironfoot on December 05, 2007, 09:44:41 AM
Welllll I could share some of the original music from my mod...

http://www.rhovanionalliance.net/media.php

scroll down to music..

I'm the leader, so I shouldn't have any trouble... I'll check with the composer just in case. The music has been updated since these I think..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on December 05, 2007, 10:51:09 AM
That would be cool.  I actually tried to get Morgan Casey to do some stuff for us..like a year and half ago but she was busy with other projects and burned out on middle-earth after doing rhovanion alliance.   :lol:  I suppose I should have tried to locate another composer but I never got around to it.

If there is no trouble from your team or Casey I could always include a link to Rhovanion Alliance as part of the credits.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Dain Ironfoot on December 05, 2007, 10:56:23 AM
I see no trouble in that at all since I'm working on both mods... I'll look into it :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: alemic on December 05, 2007, 02:01:46 PM
ah wow the rohavanion alliance leader :) been looking forward to that mod for a LONG time now.

great middle earth music if you ask me
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on December 05, 2007, 04:27:17 PM
Thanks, Dain. That's very generous from you :)

I think the tracks are a bit repetitive (both the composition and arrangement), but there are good ideas in there. It would be cool to have original music in TLD. I wander if M&B loads the music files from mods folders already, since it wasn't working on previous versions.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: pagan on December 06, 2007, 01:03:33 PM
ok, found my mic today, buried DEEEEP in the "closet of quick, need to make the study look neat"ness, so gonna give those voices a shot, hopefully tomorrow.

can't get the rhovanian link to work, which sucks, wanted to here the music. oh well.

here is a link to the stuff im currently working on for warhammer mod all WIP (except samurai, posted for a forum member)
it isn't much but i don't know html and stuff so very simple site. just click the links and hopefully a player should show up and it will start on its own. also, seems to not like firefox i've been told.
http://PaganVlad.fileave.com/index.html

get back to ya soon with my vocal efforts  :green:

cheers
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Rathyr on December 10, 2007, 12:59:56 PM
Hi, do you guys need any help with scenes?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on December 10, 2007, 03:11:05 PM
Hi, do you guys need any help with scenes?

Always! :) What do you think you could do?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Rathyr on December 10, 2007, 06:58:04 PM
What do you need?  ;)


I've got some time on my hands, and I'd love to help out a bit with this most great of mods. I was kind of thinking of trying my hand at Edoras, if you haven't already done it, but anything is good.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on December 11, 2007, 04:37:42 AM
I had planned to do Edoras, but am quite unable to at the moment, so it would be welcome if someone else would have a shot at it.

Ancient sent me a new Golden Hall model that needs to be reworked, textured and implemented first. Then the town scene should be built around it in a similar manner of all the other Rohan towns I have done lately.

(http://www.petrov-petrov.si/%7Etriglav/M&B/Rohtown3.jpg)
(http://www.petrov-petrov.si/%7Etriglav/M&B/Rohtown2.jpg)

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Dain Ironfoot on December 11, 2007, 04:53:21 AM
Oh that is awsome. The Rohan towns actually look like Rohan towns now...

has Gondor had a similar makeover to make it less vanilla-ish?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on December 11, 2007, 05:00:06 AM
has Gondor had a similar makeover to make it less vanilla-ish?

To my knowledge it hasn't as there aren't any proper Gondorian buildings available.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on December 11, 2007, 05:13:06 AM
which should be a hint to all the modelers who want to help ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Dain Ironfoot on December 11, 2007, 09:32:01 AM
Alas I have my tasks already ;)

I wonder how much you could get away with with a reskin to make the stone white/scene reshuffle (removing things like churches etc which don't fit in ME)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Rathyr on December 11, 2007, 09:45:55 AM
Triglav, those are beautiful. They look just like Rohan towns should.

If I could get all the necessary scene props I could certainly do Edoras, or any other Rohan town.

(I admit to a bit of a bias for the horsemen. :))



One question: Is the fact that all of these scenes are being made for 0.808 going to mean that they will have to be entirely redone when TLD is finally ready for an upgrade?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on December 11, 2007, 05:19:04 PM

One question: Is the fact that all of these scenes are being made for 0.808 going to mean that they will have to be entirely redone when TLD is finally ready for an upgrade?

Graphics format has not changed.  (a few things with shaders and lighting were modified, but generally, the scene models and textures are still good)

Certain parts of the code will have to be updated, but that was true anyway.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on December 11, 2007, 05:36:48 PM
Well, we do have quite a few of the .808 buildings recolored with gondorian-ish textures from the rescue thing. Yoshi did those. Im not sure if they are all in the prop file already but many should be.  Trying some gondorian town scenes might be good if you want to take a crack at it. Most should have an MT_ prefix iirc.

Edoras is going to be a pain as the great hall someone did (forgot who atm) is nice but needs alot of work and neither triglav nor myself have time to work on it atm. That would be the basis for the scene. 

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Buzvonlurt on December 11, 2007, 06:36:17 PM
Hi all. It's great to see some development going on here. I've just been out of the M&B Mod loop for a while and thought I'd come by to see what's happening. I'm relieved that everything is still in motion and have noticed a few new contributors to the mod which is always great to see.

I'm on a break at the moment and have some time to spare this week. If there's anything I can do to help voice work wise then I'd be thrilled to take part again.

-Buz
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on December 11, 2007, 06:56:45 PM
Hi all. It's great to see some development going on here. I've just been out of the M&B Mod loop for a while and thought I'd come by to see what's happening. I'm relieved that everything is still in motion and have noticed a few new contributors to the mod which is always great to see.

I'm on a break at the moment and have some time to spare this week. If there's anything I can do to help voice work wise then I'd be thrilled to take part again.

-Buz

Hey Buz, good to see you back! :)

Your Rohan voice work (if I'm not mistaken on that :P; I think I'm not) setted up a standard level for any further contributions on that area, because it was so good! :) If you think you could make some more voices (check out the first post for hints and suggestions), feel free to send us whatever you're in the mood to make (PM me for anything you'd like to discuss).

Once again, it's good to see you back! :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on December 11, 2007, 07:13:57 PM
Triglav, those are beautiful. They look just like Rohan towns should.

If I could get all the necessary scene props I could certainly do Edoras, or any other Rohan town.

(I admit to a bit of a bias for the horsemen. :))



One question: Is the fact that all of these scenes are being made for 0.808 going to mean that they will have to be entirely redone when TLD is finally ready for an upgrade?

Yeah, Triglav made an outstanding job on those. :) So, now you know what the current level of detail is about. As Triglav posted, we could use some help in this area, wanna give it a shot?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Theodred son of Theoden on December 12, 2007, 08:04:37 AM
Fantastic job, Triglav...
I'm  glad that Ancientwanker returned and RL routine didn't kill the spirit of Middle-Earth in him!:). Kudos to all TLD team who continue to work on this wonderful mod.

P.S.  We are still eager to help with lore revision(if it's still needed)- because TLD is really worth our time.
The only thing that we require is more concrete definition of the needed things. The reason of why we stoped last time was "dead season" on this forums...But we would be more then happy to help...
P.P.S. If needed, I can try to record orcish voices "Death to the strawheads" or "Kill cursed tarks!" and other authentetic, thematic, lore-oriented stuff.:) I'm a vocalist in band, and I have low, rich voice with lots of diffrent tones.:) www.myspace.com/sludgeband
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on December 12, 2007, 08:28:06 AM
do some dwarves then ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on December 17, 2007, 08:23:51 AM
Ancient sent me a new Golden Hall model that needs to be reworked, textured and implemented first. Then the town scene should be built around it in a similar manner of all the other Rohan towns I have done lately.

Might it be my golden halls? :o 

And oh, will Minas Tirith be:

This Minas Tirith:
http://www.asiatraveltips.com/newspics/065/MinasTirith.jpg (http://www.asiatraveltips.com/newspics/065/MinasTirith.jpg)

OR

THIS GLORIOUS CITY OF MINAS TIRITH:
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/galadriel10/GALERIA/lugares/Minas%20Tirith.jpg (http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/galadriel10/GALERIA/lugares/Minas%20Tirith.jpg)

??
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on December 17, 2007, 09:19:59 AM

And oh, will Minas Tirith be:

This Minas Tirith:
http://www.asiatraveltips.com/newspics/065/MinasTirith.jpg (http://www.asiatraveltips.com/newspics/065/MinasTirith.jpg)

OR

THIS GLORIOUS CITY OF MINAS TIRITH:
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/galadriel10/GALERIA/lugares/Minas%20Tirith.jpg (http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/galadriel10/GALERIA/lugares/Minas%20Tirith.jpg)


Neither link works for me.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on December 17, 2007, 09:25:24 AM
can't see the first one. The second one I quite like. It's J.Howe's work. It's funny, but he doesn't like it much ;) he says it's old work and that it's not lore accurate ;) ..

MT has been worked on, I think by Octoburn, we have the square scene that's already in 2.4 for the shops, merchants and all that, then there's the city scene for the stealth missions and the part O. worked on was the fountain court...Don't know how much of that is done...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on December 17, 2007, 11:03:10 AM
Well, the first one was a picture of Minas Tirith that was seen in the movie. I'm not sure how lore accurate the movie version is, but i surely like the lower one more
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on December 17, 2007, 04:44:07 PM
Ah yeah, that was your golden hall.  It still needs some clean up but we'll try to get it in at some point.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on December 18, 2007, 11:14:47 AM
wohoo ^^

i'm sorry for the mess  :( i couldn't figure out why it looked that way after i exported it...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on December 18, 2007, 02:45:57 PM
You think you could simplify it a bit maybe?
As you know we're always trying to reduce polys and your model is superhuge in this respect.

Decorations that can be added with the texture shouldn't be modelled on.
Things that are hardly visible should be omitted entirely (stairs within roof towers for instance).

Might be easier to have two models, outside and inside ones.
Outside is closed and you enter as you do all other M&B buildings.
Inside doesn't have to have all the details of the outside...

Check TLD's Minas Tirith throneroom, which is just the inside and all the walls are completely flat with windows, doors and other decorations just drawn on a flat surface...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on December 20, 2007, 03:00:49 PM
i'll see what i can do.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on December 20, 2007, 03:20:00 PM
i'll see what i can do.

Dividing it into an exterior and interior version would be handy but you dont really need to watch the polys so much on the interior. There are no great battles or anything else going on in there so youve got several thousand to work with.  Don't go nuts on it but you should be fine.  Seperating the interior and exterior would be great though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on December 21, 2007, 03:04:59 AM
Uh, i fixed it a little already, i'll try to simplify it a bit more but i dont think i can separate the exterior and interior... Of, course, i'll try.  ??? I'm just being busy with my other project and i dont want to use any of my models in both TLD and my own graph pack. It could be kinda confusing because i'm working on models to another game than m&b. I also use different programs than people around here and it seems that these programs dont cooperate perfectly at all  :D (Goddammit my models look fine in the other game!!!  ;) )

However, i'll se what i can do
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: pagan on January 08, 2008, 03:20:33 AM
ok, i have done some voice work for the dunlanders, will try dwarves next, but struggling with the language lol. pm'ed DABlade. hope ya like it.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on January 08, 2008, 03:55:31 AM
i'll try to simplify it a bit more but i dont think i can separate the exterior and interior... Of, course, i'll try. 

For outside view, just delete all the insides and close up the doors and windows, so it's basically a box with only outside walls visible.
For inside view the same, just reversed, delete all outside things that are not visible from inside, close up the doors and windows and you leave the inside of the box for texturing.

Really means sending us two much simpler models rather than one complex one.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Jakkaru on January 08, 2008, 07:25:33 AM
i know how to do it, it's just so damn complicated building.  :(
well, i can give it a try
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Taal on February 19, 2008, 10:53:06 AM
(http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gp5qd2.jpg)
http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gp5qd2.jpg

Didn't texture it, had no idea what type of colour scheme would be suitable so Merlkir maybe you could give it a show. However i haven't mapped it at all, its late here.

Also the Variag mask i never sent.

It uses the Variag texture in the game files.


-grabbed them, thanks! AW
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on February 19, 2008, 12:36:58 PM
looks really nice :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Berengario on May 17, 2008, 02:51:09 PM
Hello I'm new here and I'd like to say that TLD is my favorite mod and I've been contemplating for a few days now whether I should pitch in and help. I'm a fan of all Tolkien's works and I have some suggestions as for accents and I would also be willing to lend my help in voice acting, and perhaps modeling if I can learn to do it (which I am somewhat confident about).  Here are my ideas about Dunlanders: Germanic, Hobbits and Breelanders: Cockney, Rohinians: Welsh English, Gondorians and Arnorians: Estuary English, Corsairs: Australian English, Elves: perhaps an extremely thin form of estuary English, Dwarves: definitely Scottish. I also have a suggestion for a battle cry for the Elves of Rivendell. A Elbereth Gilthoniel, as in the Hymn of the Elves of Rivendell.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on May 17, 2008, 05:54:33 PM
Cool. Well, I think we are full up on dunlending voices but if you want to try one of the others, feel free.  The elves already say Elbereth Gilthoniel iirc, at least in my version. Check the first post for phrase ideas. We could mostly use:

Dwarf
Possibly more gondorian
Some elven variants if you feel like it.
Easterling babble/some made up stuff.

Send them to Dablade for cleanup when you have some finished.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 17, 2008, 10:33:51 PM
Yeah, we could use more voices. PM me whenever you have some ready, I'll be very happy to check them out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Berengario on May 18, 2008, 06:10:33 PM
I can do Dwarf as for Easterlings I think I might be able to get my cats to do some things for you (dead serious) and I may be able to do Gondorian, though my British accent sucks.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: bryce on May 20, 2008, 03:44:57 PM
Are gondormen british?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: hayate666 on May 21, 2008, 05:35:11 PM
Gondorians aren't British, but they do tend to make a jolly good marmalade.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on May 21, 2008, 07:13:56 PM
I think one of the gondorian voice contributors was british. He might be thinking of that.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on May 22, 2008, 08:32:34 AM
Well, we can't really have American accents for anything, can we? That would be idiotic.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: FleshyStarfish on May 23, 2008, 06:16:49 AM
American voices are good for hobbits...at least some of them.    ;)

FS
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Father Chains on May 23, 2008, 08:09:47 AM
American voices are good for hobbits...at least some of them.    ;)

FS

Maybe a NWOBHM-style hybrid at worst, but all in all we shouldn't suffer them. Besides, hobbits aren't really gonna be the main ingredient, so I doubt we'd have the chance :P
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: pagan on May 24, 2008, 08:30:03 PM
just a question on behalf of my other half. are there any female voices needed?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on May 25, 2008, 10:41:37 AM
As a matter of fact I wanted to get those elven pc command orders put into a female voice for any female elvish pcs but I'm not sure how that will be changing once I look at that area for the port.  At the moment the male elven pc has orders but the females are silent.

Thanks for the offer though. I'll check back with you once that gets figured out.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: hayate666 on May 25, 2008, 02:55:03 PM
Well, we can't really have American accents for anything, can we? That would be idiotic.
Do you need to have English for every faction? Perhaps it would work to use different languages for every faction in stead of the general accents we've all heard before.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Solusphere on May 29, 2008, 12:27:58 AM
Hey, just thought i'd offer to help out where I can. I'm a reasonably capable modeller, although I have never done anything for M&B so i'm not sure if there are any special constraints I have to follow. I would prefer not to have to do humanoids if possible though, as they arent really my strong point. I can also do voice acting and other sound effects (using Audacity or Goldwave) if there is still any need for them.

Here are some examples of my work:
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3279/crystalflowerhiia1.th.png) (http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystalflowerhiia1.png)
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2914/unsctrafalgardeadbackgroc6.th.jpg) (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unsctrafalgardeadbackgroc6.jpg)

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7981/jakegaspxk4.png)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8994/shard2mp2.png)

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Berengario on June 11, 2008, 02:34:31 PM
The hobbit accent is supposed to sound like cockney, and I'm sorry I've been away, I've been working on learning to model, I've made a (in my opinion) nice looking dwarf helmet, I just need to texture it, and then learn how to send it over the internet...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on July 30, 2008, 08:11:41 PM
I have been reading tons of threads and getting updated in these forums about ALL YOUR WORK, inspired by my try at TLD.
I believe to have some talent for voice acting, and later will learn about modding so i can help more.  ;)
What i wanted to know now is what program would you recommend for me to record on. Anyone?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on July 30, 2008, 08:46:50 PM
I have been reading tons of threads and getting updated in these forums about ALL YOUR WORK, inspired by my try at TLD.
I believe to have some talent for voice acting, and later will learn about modding so i can help more.  ;)
What i wanted to know now is what program would you recommend for me to record on. Anyone?

You can search here for freee sound recorder software:

http://www.download.com/1770-2001_4-0.html?searchtype=downloads&query=sound%20recorder

Or you can even use the one built in Windows ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on July 31, 2008, 06:19:33 AM
Yeah looking is easy, was just wondering if there is any program in specific you would recommend.
WavePad 3.11 seems worthy trying, i tried some that were free but had those bothering BUY NOW messages.
I also think the twisted creatures of Morgoth need more groans and yells, stuff like "Victory for the eye!" shouldn't be used much because they hate their master/s and it would also give a more brutish feel to whoever approaches.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on July 31, 2008, 09:20:08 AM
I think I just tried a shareware prog once, it was called Goldwave or something like that. I believe it was OK. I've been using pro software for a long time, so I'm not the best person to be recommending shareware or free programs :P

Whenever you manage to record something you like, PM me or post here :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: n8rush10 on August 08, 2008, 11:24:21 PM
Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself into this forum,
My name is Nate Rushton, I currently just finished my Interactive Multimedia degree at Columbia College Chicago.
I have been Modeling with Maya for the last 6 years, but have yet to actually work on any game related projects,
I have mainly made movies and things of that nature for myself and school work, etc.

I was recently refferenced over to this site from the official M&B forum. I would like to help in any way that I can, just let me know
You can take a peak at some of the work I posted here

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,42550.0.html

Thanks a lot!

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on August 09, 2008, 12:43:26 AM
Let me welcome you to the TLD forum and thank you very much for your offer, Nate :)

We have plenty of stuff a talented modeler like you could help us with. I'm sure Ancientwanker (who runs the mod and coordinates all things) will contact you very soon. It will be great to have you with us ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: waraelm on August 09, 2008, 05:24:18 AM
bit  harsh on poor old jimmy wouldnt you say? or have i missed somthing being new to this fourm.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on August 09, 2008, 07:05:11 AM
bit  harsh on poor old jimmy wouldnt you say? or have i missed somthing being new to this fourm.

You probably missed jimmy's posts (which were deleted) insulting people, being rude and generally unpleasant. He was the first and only person (as far as I know) ever beeing kicked out from the TLD forum.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on August 09, 2008, 10:29:13 AM
I didnt kick Jimmy.  He pissed off the forum owner.   Ive since deleted some of the uglier stuff.

If its giving the wrong impression Ill delete the whole thing.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on August 21, 2008, 09:44:59 AM
Wohooo :green: i got my microphone fixed!!
DaBlade, im saving the files in PCM Uncompressed 96000Hz, 32 bits.
Should i pick Stereo or Mono?
Is there another format you recommend besides PCM?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on August 21, 2008, 09:55:07 AM
Wohooo :green: i got my microphone fixed!!
DaBlade, im saving the files in PCM Uncompressed 96000Hz, 32 bits.
Should i pick Stereo or Mono?
Is there another format you recommend besides PCM?

Cool :)

Make them .wav (PCM Uncompressed) 44.1kHz Mono if possible. Converting them to mp3 would be fine too (and much smaller files), but don't do it unless you know what you're doing.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on August 21, 2008, 11:37:06 AM
You better convert them to mp3, if you know how, do some cleaning or try some effects to enhance the voice, im recording in the living room so it has a little "theatre effect" try to take that out.
Eryn Lasgalen was the first i think it's good but the last "n" looks like an m.
Where to send it?

Edit: I need the translation on:
-Alta Calenryn
-Eryn Lasgalen
-Taur-nu-Fuin
-Taur-e-Ndaedelos

I like the current voices in the mod but they all look the same in some factions, we gotta diversify.
The elf voices need to be more smooth, many of the elves had good singing, the current ones look a little "pushed".
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on August 21, 2008, 12:53:28 PM
It will be very hard to remove that "room sound". If at all possible, try to be in a corner facing the walls; your body between the mic and the room should minimise the sound reflections to an acceptable level. Experiment all you want in order to achieve the best results.

Can't remember the translations, but I'l get back to you if I can find them.

And yeah, diversity is good. ;) Actually, that's one thing native lacks; all the voices are made by the same guy.

EDIT: I'll PM you the e-mail adress.

EDIT2: Quoted from the Wikipedia

- Alta Calenryn: I don't know what it is, sorry. Maybe someone else knows.

- Eryn Lasgalen: After Sauron's destruction at the conclusion of the Third Age, Mirkwood was cleansed and became known as Eryn Lasgalen, Sindarin for the Wood of Greenleaves.

- Taur-nu-Fuin: It is also a translation of Mirkwood.
In the fictional world of J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth, Dorthonion ("Land of Pines"), later Taur-nu-Fuin, was a highland region of the First Age, lying immediately to the north of Beleriand, and south of the plains of Ard-galen, later Anfauglith, that bordered Morgoth's stronghold of Thangorodrim.

- Taur-e-Ndaedelos: In The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and associated writings, an expansive forest named Mirkwood was located in Rhovanion, east of the Anduin in Middle-earth. In this instance, the name is supposedly a translation of an unknown Westron name. Within the forest was the Woodland Realm, a kingdom of Silvan Elven ruled by the Sindarin lord, Thranduil, who established his halls around the Second Age, 1000, when Mirkwood was still known as Greenwood the Great (Eryn Galen). Around the year 1050 of the Third Age, 'the shadow of Dol Guldur' fell upon it, and men began to call it Taur-nu-Fuin and Taur-e-Ndaedelos (Sindarin: forest of great fear).

Looks like they're all names of forests (Mirkwood) or places the elves would fight for. So, these would be elven war cries.

I don't think we should use the last two.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on August 22, 2008, 12:08:20 AM
Alta Calenryn Aure entuluva (day will come again. Hurin cried it as he fought the 70 trolls during Nirnaeth Arnoediad)

google found it somewhere in this very thread ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on August 23, 2008, 06:39:57 PM
Alta Calenryn Aure entuluva (day will come again. Hurin cried it as he fought the 70 trolls during Nirnaeth Arnoediad)

google found it somewhere in this very thread ;)

I believe Alta Calenryn is separate from Aure Entuluva.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Branko on September 06, 2008, 10:31:08 AM
Hi long time player & fan here. I was wondering do you guys need any scene builders?
I've done custom scenes for Band of Warriors Expanded 1.3.
Here are some examples of my work:
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=9f9d61e6ef4b1aedad5b573a52c757ba&topic=29069.330 (http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=9f9d61e6ef4b1aedad5b573a52c757ba&topic=29069.330)
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=9f9d61e6ef4b1aedad5b573a52c757ba&topic=29069.300 (http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=9f9d61e6ef4b1aedad5b573a52c757ba&topic=29069.300)
In any case good luck with the mod.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 06, 2008, 10:40:58 AM
Maybe some gondor towns could use complete redoing? AW will know.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 07, 2008, 08:18:22 AM
I think the elven camps could really use some work. I hope Brutus will make some nice elven tents to use there :green:
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: izaktj on September 10, 2008, 02:24:19 AM
Hi
I saw a few pages back, there was the awesome thing of waving standarts (spelling?). It's from rohan d=
Did someone made a gondor one I could use? Thanks ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Agent Griff on September 17, 2008, 10:04:27 AM
Did you get my latest samples DaBlade?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 17, 2008, 10:50:04 AM
Did you get my latest samples DaBlade?

Yeah, I did. I sent you an e-mail reply, check it out.


Hi
I saw a few pages back, there was the awesome thing of waving standarts (spelling?). It's from rohan d=
Did someone made a gondor one I could use? Thanks ;)


Yeah, we have it in the dev version. It will probably be in the next release ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Agent Griff on September 17, 2008, 01:03:29 PM
You sent me two replies.

I guess the Elvish lines are the ones for Mirkwood (Eryn Lasgalen and so forth)?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 17, 2008, 02:45:31 PM
You sent me two replies.

I guess the Elvish lines are the ones for Mirkwood (Eryn Lasgalen and so forth)?

Yep, that's it. If you have any other ideas for them, go ahead :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 23, 2008, 10:16:50 AM
This was the only way I could find to put it here.

I can model and act voices :P
I dunno if it makes a diff but i model in c4d atm, what kinda prog do you need the models to be done in? Wings?
I can quickly adapt to it i guess.

Just pm me.

Greets

Sin, take a look at the first page in this thread and tell me what kind of voices would you like to do.

Wait for a message from Ancientwanker regarding the modeling part.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Sin on September 23, 2008, 11:29:57 AM
I'd do the dwarven and orc voices, i can do others too and i can mimic many diffrent accents so i think i just start with the dwarfs and orcs then see whats next.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 23, 2008, 11:32:14 AM
I'd do the dwarven and orc voices, i can do others too and i can mimic many diffrent accents so i think i just start with the dwarfs and orcs then see whats next.

OK, send me a PM when you have them ready.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: izaktj on September 26, 2008, 06:55:46 PM
Did you get my latest samples DaBlade?

Yeah, I did. I sent you an e-mail reply, check it out.


Hi
I saw a few pages back, there was the awesome thing of waving standarts (spelling?). It's from rohan d=
Did someone made a gondor one I could use? Thanks ;)


Yeah, we have it in the dev version. It will probably be in the next release ;)
Awesome!!!!!! :green:
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Deon on September 27, 2008, 02:29:42 PM
Greetings!
You offered me to try to help you and now I've registered here.
I want to contribute because I enjoyed the mod very much and I think it's fair to give something back.

I have no skills in modeling/texturing and very small skills in Python.

I've just started to do some models in wings 3d so I'm going to mod useful weapons/items for TLD.

Here's the list of the things I've done in last 4-5 days (actually my first models) so you can consider what kind of stuff can I make to give me tasks.

[spoiler]
(http://i35.tinypic.com/ruusci.png)

(http://i33.tinypic.com/2aep7a1.png)

(http://i38.tinypic.com/2ed6u6x.png)

(http://i34.tinypic.com/23t5fz6.png)

(http://i35.tinypic.com/2vchsnq.png)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/294qlbt.png)
[/spoiler]

I've made the goblin today and it took about 25 min to make the model and about 45 (:-[) min to make/adjust the texture. I should work on details more and make a better texture later, for now it's quite generic and doesn't have right shading. I wanted to make a goblin head for Warhammer mod but they already have one so I ask you do you need me to improve/darken it for the TLD mod since for now goblins are undestinguishable from orcs and if I shorten his nose (do I need to do it for TLD? It's a Warhammer type goblin head) this head can become pretty unique to use as a separate race.


Thank you for your time spent on reading this. I'm eager to participate.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 27, 2008, 02:41:16 PM
Hehe, I posted that pick of yours in our dev's forum because I liked it very much! :)

I'm sure we could use your skills in TLD, wait for a message from Ancientwanker ;)

PS: it may take a while; AW has been busy with RL lately.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Deon on September 27, 2008, 02:58:12 PM
I know how it goes. He also told me that you have nice texturers because I'm bad at "painting" still.

I tried to rework the goblin texture to fit the mod better but it's still on another end of the stick from Perfect.

(http://i37.tinypic.com/8xr680.png)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 27, 2008, 03:05:41 PM
We discussed before how the goblins and orcs should look and that kind of rat-like look was one of the options we liked (as far as I can remember). The model doesn't look bad, maybe we could try some adjustments, I dunno. Let's see what the other guys have to say about it. Me or any of the guys could help you with the texture. I believe we'd rather go for a more dark/swart skin color.

We'd probably need to make it compatible with the ingame face editor if we were to use it though, which I believe is a far more complex task.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on September 27, 2008, 03:11:03 PM
I'd gladly take care of the orc head texturing, as I've done most of the previous oens as well and still have many resources saved...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on September 27, 2008, 03:16:22 PM
I'd gladly take care of the orc head texturing, as I've done most of the previous oens as well and still have many resources saved...

Cool :) What do you think of the model, do you like it? Any suggestions?

EDIT: I think I'd like smaller ears and nose... for a start.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Deon on September 27, 2008, 03:24:30 PM
It was for the Warhammer that's why it has oversized nose/ears, warhammer is a bit cartoonish.
I will definitely work on it more because I myself don't like how it looks yet, I need to spend some time on RL (exams and family stuff) and I'll show you something better (at least I hope so) later.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on September 27, 2008, 04:18:52 PM
Yea I would avoid the warhammer look.  Id prefer more flattened features.  Though a "rat" face shape might be cool too.  I am thinking pointy nose/face with reeding eyebrows and chin.  Kind of a wedge/triangular shaped snout-nosed thing. :P 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on September 27, 2008, 05:05:45 PM
Ears and nose should be radically scalable in the face creation screen, so we can create really grotesque fellas.

But in principle a lowly snaga should be something like:
(http://lookingcloser.org/images/orc.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on September 27, 2008, 06:42:35 PM
Oh yeah, I asked him to post here to get some ideas for any weapons we might need.  Feel free to suggest anything to him and we'll see what comes up.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on September 28, 2008, 12:29:07 AM
that snaga Triglav posted is IMHO VERY GOOD example. Really snagaish.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on September 28, 2008, 06:52:02 AM
"Snagaish"?    :-\
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on September 28, 2008, 07:00:35 AM
Snagaesque perhaps?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on October 05, 2008, 06:02:59 AM
Just the other day i was reading "Unfinished Tales of Númenor and the Middle Earth" (Portuguese version) and in about page 80, Hurín goes to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and just as he is ready to ride, he shouts:
Lacho calad! Drego Morn! (Flame on, light! Flee now, night!) something like that.

I think the "Lacho calad!" should do a great warcry for elven forces.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 05, 2008, 02:40:52 PM
Just the other day i was reading "Unfinished Tales of Númenor and the Middle Earth" (Portuguese version) and in about page 80, Hurín goes to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and just as he is ready to ride, he shouts:
Lacho calad! Drego Morn! (Flame on, light! Flee now, night!) something like that.

I think the "Lacho calad!" should do a great warcry for elven forces.

We have it already ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Nim Feabeleg on October 06, 2008, 08:12:41 AM
Didnt find it in 2.4 version.

Edit: Nevermind i was looking in elven forces, i just found it now as Dunedain warcries, good job, it makes more sense for being a dunedain warcry than any other tipe of unit.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Vraven on October 07, 2008, 12:59:46 AM
I know how it goes. He also told me that you have nice texturers because I'm bad at "painting" still.

I tried to rework the goblin texture to fit the mod better but it's still on another end of the stick from Perfect.

(http://i37.tinypic.com/8xr680.png)

Deon, the quality on this head is rather that of someone familiar, but still fairly new to texturing and modeling - nothing compared to the weapons you posted before. Are you sure you made all of these objects? I really, really hate to like, ask this sort of question, but I'm highly skeptical, looking at this.

I will mention that the four weapons after the first one (which lacks the poly resolution of a game model, another thing you see a lot in the work of those who are new to modding) look like they could have been ripped directly from a game like WAR.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Barf on October 09, 2008, 11:05:45 AM
can I be of any use here?.
I have already sent a message to Ancientwanker about 10 days ago but still no response.
I made this model (its conan) took me 3 days.

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/scruples321/conan_4.jpg)

heres a t-90m tank i made for another game but never finished because mod group epic failed

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/scruples321/Untitled-1.jpg)

I would love to help TLD mod in any way.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on October 09, 2008, 11:12:34 AM
Well now...  :D

Welcome.

Does this Conan of yours work in M&B's ingame face editor?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Barf on October 09, 2008, 02:21:08 PM
Hurrah, me bes accepted. but sadly no  :( I tried to make a face that would work with the in-game face editor but that didn't go over too well and everyone looked the same, so this is just a helmet right now.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 09, 2008, 04:31:49 PM
Hey Barf, welcome! :)

That T90m looks kickass! :D

Ancientwanker was in the process of moving to a new house last time I spoke to him, so I guess he's been pretty busy these days. I'm sure he'll get back to you as soon as possible.

There is always a lot of things to do in the modeling department, so I'm sure we can use your help. Can you make and rig armor?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 10, 2008, 04:59:01 AM
The Conan head is pretty good I'd say. I wish Stefano left a tutorial how to create those scaleable faces. Because...you know, I really want new elven and human heads :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Oroonin on October 10, 2008, 03:18:05 PM
I´ve always thought the "goblins" were just an earlier name for orcs as they feature in the hobbit but not in the triology? I´d say the orc-heads are very good the way they are, close to the impression you get from the books, brutish and misshapen and yet slightly human- not some fantasy-battles monsters. I´d stay well clear off anything resembling warhammer-stuff as it´s a different lore alltogether. most of the orcheads presented in the films are actually quite far off the mark from what you read- think the lad with the goatee outside minas tirith...some nice models do appear in minas morgul though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: vonGajsek on October 24, 2008, 10:24:49 AM
Do you need any help for the voices?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on October 24, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
I´ve always thought the "goblins" were just an earlier name for orcs as they feature in the hobbit but not in the triology? I´d say the orc-heads are very good the way they are, close to the impression you get from the books, brutish and misshapen and yet slightly human- not some fantasy-battles monsters. I´d stay well clear off anything resembling warhammer-stuff as it´s a different lore alltogether. most of the orcheads presented in the films are actually quite far off the mark from what you read- think the lad with the goatee outside minas tirith...some nice models do appear in minas morgul though.

There was an actual statement in one of the trilogy books where they describe orcs are large goblins.  With the largest of the orcs standing about man-height.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 24, 2008, 12:13:26 PM
Do you need any help for the voices?


Yeah, we could always use some more voices. Take a look at the first page in this thread and see if there's anything there you'd like to do.

If you have any questions feel free to send me a PM anytime.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on October 30, 2008, 01:41:40 AM
This mod has really caught my eye; if you dev's are still in need of an experienced texture artist, please drop me a message on msn :D

seniorsatterlee34@home.com

E/ oh yeah, i have a smooth, deep, jazz voice and any voice acting would be pretty fun. i need to get a mic first tho :P
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on October 30, 2008, 03:24:51 AM
This mod has really caught my eye; if you dev's are still in need of an experienced texture artist, please drop me a message on msn :D

seniorsatterlee34@home.com

E/ oh yeah, i have a smooth, deep, jazz voice and any voice acting would be pretty fun. i need to get a mic first tho :P

Hi Snuke. We're usually more in need of moddelers than texturers. Can you shows us some samples of your work? Maybe we could use your help for something.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on October 30, 2008, 11:28:28 PM
Sure, I'll get on it tomorrow; just got home and i'm dead-beat tired :[
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on October 31, 2008, 03:55:31 PM
Hi guys ... i want to help in anything to the mod , especially texturing , ( i'd love to model but idont know how to) , some of the items created to this awesome mod and its conversion to 1.x.  i usyally mess around with native textures and try my own luck with them.. i'll post a couple of images of a retexture i did and you guys can decide if i am of good use or just can keep the help for myself  :-[ here u go i hope i can be useful 

Royal Plate Armor  and Shield for Native
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5516/royalplatearmorrk3.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=royalplatearmorrk3.jpg)(http://img258.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


http://(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8968/mb5cs4.th.jpg) (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb5cs4.jpg)(http://img510.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

(http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7342/mb6gz8.th.jpg) (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb6gz8.jpg)

it needs a little polishing some edges but... i kinda rushed it out and i noticed that the previous post was off topic so i put it in here again . Sorry thanks
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on October 31, 2008, 06:33:52 PM
I believe they are more interested in texture artists who create their own textures, as opposed to recolors.

Here is a combat vest in ERDL that i made for fun; it is meant to replace the default one for the marine in Insmod.

(http://sleekupload.com/uploads/vest_desert_copy_1.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on October 31, 2008, 07:22:05 PM
I believe they are more interested in texture artists who create their own textures, as opposed to recolors.

Here is a combat vest in ERDL that i made for fun; it is meant to replace the default one for the marine in Insmod.

(http://sleekupload.com/uploads/vest_desert_copy_1.jpg)

I just work with the image itself...  the mapping and modelling or w/e i dont know how otherwise i'd do it but i just want to be useful and perhaps learn more stuff  ;)
i have the strange desire to make this Tolkien related mod the most interesting and visually beautiful thing ever  hehe
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 01, 2008, 12:59:08 AM
@ The Snuke:
The image is not showing for me. You could maybe try imageshack or photobucket to host your images; those usually work as expected.

@ Trying2ShowReason:
Do you want to give it a shot at something we could use in TLD?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 01, 2008, 05:24:50 AM

@ Trying2ShowReason:
Do you want to give it a shot at something we could use in TLD?

Yeah sure ! ofc i'd like to texture your own models but for now i guess i'll use some native models... So u want me to do something similar but as if it was already to put on TLD?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 01, 2008, 05:45:55 AM
Yeah, that's what we all do most of the times. We have very few custom armor models, almost all are just native models with our own textures on them ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 01, 2008, 05:59:53 AM
haha okay i'll do something and hope you like it , when i comeback from work i'll start out pronto ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Doppelganger on November 01, 2008, 06:45:29 AM
i think new version of tld will release 1.010 +
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 01, 2008, 06:55:02 AM
haha okay i'll do something and hope you like it , when i comeback from work i'll start out pronto ;)

Forgot to say you may want to take a look at Merlkir's concept art and maybe make something based on it. Doesn't have to be armor, make whatever you wish.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on November 01, 2008, 07:11:30 AM
most of my concept art is here:

http://merlkir.deviantart.com/gallery/#The-Last-Days-Tolkien-related (http://merlkir.deviantart.com/gallery/#The-Last-Days-Tolkien-related)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on November 01, 2008, 10:37:00 AM
I'll post the link itself; if it doesn't work ill re-upload.

http://sleekupload.com/uploads/vest_desert_copy_1.jpg
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 01, 2008, 10:52:30 AM
I'll post the link itself; if it doesn't work ill re-upload.

http://sleekupload.com/uploads/vest_desert_copy_1.jpg

It wasn't showing in IE, but I could see it using Firefox. Looks good.

So, do you wanna try something from Merlkir's concept art? Or something of you own, but LOTR style?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on November 01, 2008, 03:56:36 PM
Umm idk which ones are already uv mapped?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Taal on November 01, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
This was supposed to be in this thread, I have no idea how it ended up in the concept art thread:

I propose a list of things, and corresponding concept art or detailed description, that people who wish to contribute can pick from. This list needant have spoiler content just the usual filler models needed for the game. Other more important models can be on a per PM basis. This list would just make it easier for those wishing to contribute to do so with as little mucking around as possible.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 02, 2008, 04:27:03 PM
Ok first try, worked on a Blackroot Vale Archer, inspired and based on Merklir's own concept art  http://merlkir.deviantart.com/art/Blackroot-Vale-Archer-89255545

 ( Btw merk, you are awesome drawing) hope you like it. Instead of the "yinyang" like circle, i incorporated a detail of the gondor white tree on the fabric. If it conflicts with the lore surely i can change that :P

(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9869/blackroot2sx4.th.jpg) (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackroot2sx4.jpg)(http://img117.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/867/blackrootvalearchergm0.th.jpg) (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackrootvalearchergm0.jpg)(http://img399.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


(http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/964/blackroot4uh0.th.jpg) (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackroot4uh0.jpg)(http://img352.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7281/blackroot1dk0.th.jpg) (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackroot1dk0.jpg)(http://img99.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5527/closeupyh1.th.jpg) (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=closeupyh1.jpg)(http://img523.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)



Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: The Snuke on November 02, 2008, 05:17:46 PM
(http://sleekupload.com/uploads/dwarvenscout2_copy_1.jpg)

The dwarven scout from merk's devart page. Not very satisfied, but meh.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: octoburn on November 02, 2008, 09:28:00 PM
Ok first try, worked on a Blackroot Vale Archer, inspired and based on Merklir's own concept art  http://merlkir.deviantart.com/art/Blackroot-Vale-Archer-89255545

 ( Btw merk, you are awesome drawing) hope you like it. Instead of the "yinyang" like circle, i incorporated a detail of the gondor white tree on the fabric. If it conflicts with the lore surely i can change that :P

not that bad, IMO. I like it.

the "ying/yang" like symbol is supposed to be representative of the Stone of Erech, which is located in the Blackroot Vale. it was something to differentiate them from the standard Gondor troops (similar to how the Clansmen of Lamedon use a different Gondor tree - one I designed-  than the standard troops if you want to try incorperating that, it'd probably go a ways towards keeping the troops within the GOndor units diverse among themselves.

I like how it straps down the side, under the armpits. not sure about the lacing down the front though.

also, a small nitpick, try to make the vambraces a bit more original. the ones on it look exactly like the native ones.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 03, 2008, 02:58:43 AM
Trying2ShowReason, regarding screenshots, it would be nice to have whatever you want to show us facing the sun. That way we could see it better.

Doesn't look bad. I agree with octo, some nice venbraces would make it look better. The texture for those is part of the splinted greaves texture.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on November 03, 2008, 03:12:07 AM
yeah, better screens would be nice. I actually made that outfit before, but it was blurry and we didn't use it.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 03, 2008, 01:20:18 PM
Yeah when iread the comments i instantly had a "a-ha" moment because of the vambraces XD you are all right i completely overlooked them  i'll work on that tonight and also do something with the blackroot symbol, as i totally with the variety of gondorian troops,making them unique inside the faction and at the same time all looking similar :P

Thanks for the feedback and the critics, i really want to improve ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 03, 2008, 05:42:58 PM
Ok i've done some little tweaks on it: included the blackroot crest on it, removed the gondorian tree, didn't forget the vambraces this time  :P and i also changed to another style of collar.
I tried to give the Stone of Erech symbol a kind of a torn-up,used and rushed sewing look, because at times of war no artisan would spend too much time on sewing a perfect crest/symbol into the clothing.. i tried to exteriorizate that feel. just that kind of detail to give some immersion ( no one goes on brand new clothing to war except a few lords ).
also, i alongated the white side of the "coat", if u compare at the previous version you will notice the diff. Hope you guys like it


(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4017/mb19copymm1.th.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb19copymm1.jpg)(http://img401.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

The detail on the back, took a better shot of it to a better look. made it just to get that kind of feel of ancient yet detailed clothing that the movie intrinsecated on us
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8161/mb20copyct5.th.jpg) (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb20copyct5.jpg)(http://img118.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/992/mb18copyzd6.th.jpg) (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb18copyzd6.jpg)(http://img118.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7066/mb21copyib1.th.jpg) (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mb21copyib1.jpg)(http://img383.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

if you notice, if you zoom in too much on them, they become kind of unclear, but at medium-close and far distance they are cool.. i'm trying to overcome that but i think in the midst of the battles you wont have time to notice that issue.. i hope. any hints on i can improve that are welcome. and i can work on some boots for them too if u want ! Thanks XD
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on November 04, 2008, 01:08:51 AM
it's awfully blurry :( so you're running on medium texture quality? it'd be better to at least try highest quality to see how the texture is. If that doesn't work, we'll think of something..
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on November 04, 2008, 01:44:43 AM
Yep. And I think the blue part is probably too saturated. I like the leather attachements, too bad they're so blurry.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: octoburn on November 04, 2008, 04:13:30 AM
overall, it's a good start, but too rough.

the new collar looks weird, I'm really not sure what's going on with it.
the belt has a little blue in the middle of the back.
the symbol on the back very closely resembles some symbols that are being used on Elven equipment.

the straps I still like, but as mentioned, very blurry. still don't like the lacing down the front. maybe you could put some straps on the chest similar to the others? maybe one right under the neck, and one both above and below the BRV symbol.

that's my $.02 :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Trying2ShowReason on November 04, 2008, 06:26:09 AM
yeah i want to make'em more sharp too as i said on the post but dunno what's happening. i'll try to find a way

but the idea itself is it good? ( forget the blurry issue )
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on November 21, 2008, 11:37:41 AM
Crank up all your details, just for this. If your computer can't play well with it all at the max, just take your pictures and lower the quality again. Try turning on antialiasing, turn up detail, Dynamic lighting, but turn down the grass density ( For boosted frames. ) and then make sure that you're on DX9 shades.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on January 12, 2009, 07:06:57 AM
I found a few videos that could be useful for elven voice actors:

Tolkien recites in Quenya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6de_SbVUVfA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6de_SbVUVfA&feature=related)

and in Sindarin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfYy4gW9L4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfYy4gW9L4&feature=related)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on January 13, 2009, 01:29:09 AM
Nice find :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on January 13, 2009, 02:12:03 AM
I just noticed it's a Chamber of Records channel :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on February 10, 2009, 12:00:18 AM
Guys:

Been working on an off-the-wall project, if you haven't seen it:

http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,1653.msg33588.html#msg33588

Anyway, there are a bunch of low-poly but very clean weapons models there ... If you need any of them, either in their current form or if you want to retexture them, have at it.  They're at least a chance to replace some of the very ugly Native axes, maces, and polearms.  RCM stats in the items file (source with the download), if you want Native-based stats, you will have to make those up for yourselves.  (Not sure if TLD is still planning to be in two versions next time, or not.)

The rest of my bizarre project is likely not useful to TLD, unfortunately, as TLD already has better versions of most of it.  But the weapon models might be useful.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on February 10, 2009, 02:40:16 AM
Hey thanks. 

I probably wont look for awhile yet, Im leaving weapon sorting for last.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: HokieBT on February 10, 2009, 10:05:00 AM

FYI - Geroj created a smaller Dwarf (creative rigging) for the Midkemia mod I'm working on...  The hitboxes are still the human skeleton, but let me know if you have any interest.

(http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1336178_1.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1336178/1.jpg.html) (http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1336179_2.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1336179/2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on February 10, 2009, 10:56:07 AM
That looks cool.  I figured I could creatively rig if it came to it but that opens up a lot of problems with gear looting, animations, hitboxes, etc.   We're gonna leave dwarves until the end and we'll see what the options are then.

But thanks for the offer.  In general though I dont use stuff from other mods, its just not as fun to make and I only do this for fun.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on February 11, 2009, 03:57:09 AM
Guys:

May have something here.  Using some kind of cheezy auto-rigging program that I have no idea who cooked up, I've got the wolves to rig well enough to be usable.  Had to make a few minor changes on the body, so said rigging would pick them up correctly, but those won't show.

I'll get the rest of them and try to get them into a .brf file for you.  I'll also try to jury-rig the animations file and sounds so that they will work for either horse or canine (albeit not as well, in the case of horses).

My only stipulation for this contribution is that I get to use TLD's wolf skins for what I'm building as well, because I surely don't want to have to retexture one of those things myself.  You know how hard it is to get wolf fur looking right in a texture?  I wasn't going to use orcs riding dogs in mine, as it seemed too obvious a rip from Tolkien, but then the opportunity to set them up sort of fell in my lap.  (I may try to borrow some critters from Highelf's old Fantasy Mod as well.)

Anyway, they're not perfect, but they're usable ... and they're ready within the next week, not at some undetermined time in the future.  I know the wargs were a major bottleneck on the port ... not now, they're not.

(Also, I'll try to get back with Marco Tarini on some of his better wolf models ... I somehow doubt they will auto-rig as well, but it doesn't hurt to try.  And maybe he can reverse-engineer that auto-rig routine, so we could work around the obvious bugs in BRFEdit for a while.)

Anyway, details when they're ready.  One of the major bottlenecks just got fixed... sort of.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Vinter on February 11, 2009, 04:49:03 AM
Hei guys!

First of all I have to mention, that I've never played Mount & Blade, hehe. Actually I discovered it only yesterday evening, by looking on the paradox-page. Quite intrigued by the concept I started looking for more information about it and came across the vast modding-community. As a former fan (almost an apostle) of Tolkien's masterpiece I took a deeper look on TLD and... hell yeah, count me in!

Few years ago (2001-2004) I worked on two LotR Ultima Online Freeshards (Ringwelt, Uo-Mittelerde) as an overwhelmingly untalented graphical designer (sprites and stuff) and composer.

What can I contribute?
Not much, unfortunately... I'm neither good at scripts/codes nor at graphical design. Sry, not very acquainted with this stuff (I'm studying class. archaeology and scandinavian philology...).


Buuuuuut I can help you with the music in TLD... I'm a more or less talented composer. So, are you working on a soundtrack for TLD?


Greetings from Avstria,
Vinter

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on February 11, 2009, 05:17:30 AM
Ron: wolf/warg things are happening in the dev area right now, so I can't really say. AW will hopefully tell you.

Vinter: sadly, we do have a composer. :(
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Triglav on February 11, 2009, 06:02:15 AM
Hey Vinter. Nice to have you here.

Stick around, as an expert in the lore, I'm sure you can contribute some positive feedback to our modding efforts.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on February 11, 2009, 08:19:31 AM
@ Ron:
Yeah, we're taking care of the wargs, but thanks for letting us know you managed rig them. Someone else should know better than me if we could still use what you got.


@ Vinter:

Welcome Vinter, and thanks for the offer.

Like Merlkir said, we do have a composer working on the TLD soundtrack, but perhaps we could use your stuff as well. Could you show us something? In case your stuff blends well with what we have already, I see no reason why we shouldn't use it. Pagan (our composer) would probably welcome some help with the massive number of tracks we need.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Vinter on February 11, 2009, 09:03:29 AM
Yesterday I worked on some random stuff that I could show you. Nothing special and I didn't put much effort into it, but it is not that bad...


http://rapidshare.com/files/196785371/try.mp3.html
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on February 11, 2009, 10:30:41 AM
Yesterday I worked on some random stuff that I could show you. Nothing special and I didn't put much effort into it, but it is not that bad...


http://rapidshare.com/files/196785371/try.mp3.html

Hey, I like it! :D

I'm sure you could improve it a bit, but I think it has beautyfull parts already. I also think it would blend nicely with pagan's stuff, although the styles are different.

Let's see what the rest of the guys have to say, but as far as I'm concerned I think this kind of stuff would work nicely in TLD.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on February 11, 2009, 11:25:03 AM
I don't know...I'm no musician, but the first half has many monotonous and repetitive places, the harp (or whatever it is) motive is ok, but the strings are kind of annoying. The second half is much better. I like the ominous vocals. Of course, piano and the weird drum don't really fit our style, but that's not important since it's a demo.
Maybe listen to Pagan's stuff and see if you could do something like that.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on February 11, 2009, 11:51:26 AM
Hey Vinter,

As they say, we have a dude but we can probably pad some of his stuff out with another contributor.

Yeah, I think its promising.  I agree the piano isnt working.  Maybe a heavier, rougher drum.  Brass, drum, omnious vocals are really the norm iirc.

Dablade coordinates the sound stuff so if you want to help out with it, he can point out what we might need.   Or you can run it by others here. Or post it. Up to you.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on February 11, 2009, 11:59:36 AM
If we go into the details I'd say:

- I like how it starts and how the strings build up over the harp melody.
- The next strings part is weak and repetitive, it would need to be worked on.
- The next part with the strings and the piano is good (I like it). To fit TLD better, it would be a matter of making the piano part be played by the harp; I think that would work.
- The next part with the voices is kinda nice, but the voice samples don't sound that good. I like the background beat and how the timpani help to punctuate it. Again, the piano part could be played by the harp in order to fit TLD better.
- The end is fine, but I'd drop the very last bit.

The fact it's overall a bit repetitive it's not a bad thing (in my opinion), since it's a soundtrack; not meant to work on its own, but to be a part of something else. I turned the M&B native music off because I find it too distracting ;)

There you go :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on February 11, 2009, 12:08:01 PM
well. what they said. When making music for TLD, the LOTR movie soundtracks are good inspiration for style/instruments. And since it's for MaB, every track should have a purpose - walk in a town, peaceful map travelling music or a pumping battle piece.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on February 11, 2009, 12:18:59 PM
Yeah. I've put together a list of the tracks we need. It would be a matter of checking it out with pagan and see what we have already and what still needs to be done (I'm sure there's still a lot to be done :P).

******* EDIT ********

Vinter, I still need to check it out with pagan (he's been quiet latelly), but this is more or less what we need:

Quote
- TLD_main_screen (Main theme, plays every time the game starts)

- ambushed_by_neutral
- ambushed_by_gondor
- ambushed_by_rohan
- ambushed_by_elves
- ambushed_by_dwarves
- ambushed_by_good (generic, could be used for Northmen and Dale)
- ambushed_by_evil (generic, could be used for Corssairs, more?)
- ambushed_by_orcs
- ambushed_by_harad
- ambushed_by_easterlings
- ambushed_by_dunland

- arena_1 (plays in the arena fights)

- armorer (?)

- bandit_fight (what the name says I guess)

- calm_night (?)

- capture

- defeated_by_neutral (there are 3 of these in native, short)

- empty_village (?)

- escape (from captivity, short)

- fight_1
- fight_2
- fight_3

- fight_as_gondor
- fight_as_rohan
- fight_as_elf
- fight_as_dwarf
- fight_as_good (generic)
- fight_as_evil (generic)
- fight_as_orc
- fight_as_harad
- fight_as_esterling
- fight_as_dunland

- killed_by_good (generic, short)
- killed_by_evil (generic, short)

- lords_hall_gondor
- lords_hall_rohan
- lords_hall_elves
- lords_hall_dwarves
- lords_hall_good (generic)
- lords_hall_evil (generic)
- lords_hall_mordor
- lords_hall_isengard

- infiltration_good (for the stealth missions)
- infiltration_evil (for the stealth missions)

- retreat (generic, short)

- seige_neutral (only if we come to use sieges. There is no specific music for factions in native)

- tavern_1
- tavern_2

- town_neutral
- town_gondor
- town_rohan
- town_elves
- town_dwarves
- town_good (generic)
- town_evil (generic)
- town_mordor
- town_isengard
- town_harad
- town_easterling
- town_dunland

- travel_gondor
- travel_rohan
- travel_elf
- travel_dwarf
- travel_good (generic)
- travel_evil (generic)
- travel_orc
- travel_harad
- travel_easterling
- travel_dunland

- uncertain_homestead (?)

- victorious_good (generic, short)
- victorious_evil (generic, short)


And this what's already done:

Quote
- ambushed_by_orcs

- arena_1 (plays in the arena fights)

- escape (from captivity, short)

- fight_as_gondor
- fight_as_rohan
- fight_as_orc
- fight_as_harad

- killed_by_good (generic, short)
- killed_by_evil (generic, short)

- infiltration_good (for the stealth missions)
- infiltration_evil (for the stealth missions)

- retreat (generic, short)

- seige_neutral (only if we come to use sieges. There is no specific music for factions in native)

- tavern_1

- town_neutral
- town_gondor
- town_rohan

- victorious_good (generic, short)
- victorious_evil (generic, short)

Still plenty to choose from :P

Feel fre to send me a PM if you wish ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Oroonin on February 12, 2009, 04:46:06 PM
Don´t know if you´ve solved the skellies issues with dwarves yet, but there is a bloke called Geroj working on the Star Wars mod who´s made functioning jawas standing some 150cm as opposed to normal 180cm. He refers to it as magic.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on February 12, 2009, 05:02:49 PM

He refers to it as magic.


We usually call it creative rigging. The hitboxes don't get changed though, which means you have to hit him over his head for the game to read it as a head hit. Not cool. We know how it's done, but thanks anyway ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on February 12, 2009, 05:37:21 PM
Hitboxes are less the worry as the gear.  Without the connection points changing you have to have race specific gear for a few areas.   I'd rather avoid that.   But creative rigging may be the only option eventually.  We did that with the troll before.

Once brfedit is out, we'll know what's possible. Until then dwarves are in the "cant be bothered until we know more" pile.  I'm not really solving anything there, its above my pay grade. We have to wait on the smarter people.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on February 12, 2009, 10:24:57 PM
Hey, the hit boxes CAN be changed in the module_skins.py file.  There's a number just after the skeleton name, that defines scale.  It doesn't work perfectly ... in fact, there are significant bugs if you try to go too large (as it conflicts with the ground when the characters fall).  However, it will scale the hit-box.  I am certain of that ... I've been testing it.

Going larger, like for trolls, is going to be a pain, however.  Also, getting them to use any kind of equipment properly is not going to be easy.

Still, AW hit the nail on the head.  Hit boxes ... that can be done.  Equipment is the problem.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ancientwanker on February 12, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
Yeah, I know. I've been watching scale closely.  Quite a surprise when I killed my first troll with an arrow to his left.

Hopefully Thorgrim comes back to sort out the rest.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Pas-2 on February 22, 2009, 05:43:46 AM
Is this Mod still being done? I could help with some 3D-modelling, animations and especially with exterior/interior architectural models (since that is what I've been doing for living last two years). So does some buildings need doing?

Aki
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on February 22, 2009, 07:14:54 AM
definitely! Wait for Ancientwanker's response, he'll know what exactly is needed.

Take a look at our Preview thread, that's new. ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on March 26, 2009, 01:58:46 PM
Ugh, I feel so useless. I don't have any useful talent, even though I've been using Wings for almost 3 months. I still make crappy models.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Llew on March 26, 2009, 05:33:39 PM
Ugh, I feel so useless. I don't have any useful talent, even though I've been using Wings for almost 3 months. I still make crappy models.
Your sig makes you worthwhile, fear naught.  :P

But really, the reason you don't make good models is because you are using wings, not Blender. Come to the Light side, for we rock! ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: FleshyStarfish on March 27, 2009, 03:37:31 AM
Ugh, I feel so useless. I don't have any useful talent, even though I've been using Wings for almost 3 months. I still make crappy models.
Your sig makes you worthwhile, fear naught.  :P

But really, the reason you don't make good models is because you are using wings, not Blender. Come to the Light side, for we rock! ;)

I would say that 3D Max is even better, although I've heard that its harder to import models from this program into M&B.  Supposedly Wings 3D is easiest...

FS
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on March 27, 2009, 01:22:59 PM
~Frantically downloads Blender~
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Ron Losey on March 27, 2009, 08:53:06 PM
~Frantically downloads Blender~

This is your brain ... this is your brain in "Blender" ... any questions?


I mean, really ... I mean, I do all my models in Wings.  So does Fujiwara, incidentally ... so everything you see in Onin-no-Ran was a Wings 3D project, plus rigging with FragMotion.  Not too many people would claim those graphics to be inferior.  (Heck, most of them are accurate enough to use as academic research on Japanese weapons of the period.)

It's not the program's fault.  It's just a matter of sitting down and doing it.  Some concentration, some basic geometry, and a good idea of what you want the finished product to look like, and you're set.  Most often, however, bad models result from any or all of those things being absent ... not knowing what you really want to build being the largest contributor.

I really believe that anybody can learn 3D models ... I did, totally self-taught in a matter of days, with zero previous experience.  And it doesn't matter what program you use, just so long as you spend enough time with it to really understand the interface.  (Incidentally, blender and 3dsmax will both take considerably longer to learn the interface.  They do a little more, but added complication is the price.)  Don't believe anybody who insists you just have to use one program or another, and don't assume that just because they like it, that you will necessarily get along with the interface as well.  (Blender gives me a headache just looking at it, but some people love it.)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Llew on March 28, 2009, 11:20:38 AM
Aww come off it, Ron. I was partly joking, but now that your so serious about dissing Blender, I'm gonna have to defend it.  ;)
Quote
I really believe that anybody can learn 3D models ... I did, totally self-taught in a matter of days, with zero previous experience.
Not everyone is a wonderboy like you. :P Who knows, maybe all azile needs is a different program to make it come together. You yourself said it doesn't matter what program you use, so long as you stick with it.

Quote
(Blender gives me a headache just looking at it, but some people love it.)
Exactly! Wings gives me a headache just thinking about it. Let alone looking at it. :P

And now, to help him along the way, here's a youtube link to a guy who does some very nice tuts for Blender. This stuff deals with basics of stuff like UVmapping (wicked good), mirror modeling and some other handy features of Blender. Although you'll probably not want to look at them until you're at least a little comfortable with the interface.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=3DMacDaddy&view=videos&start=20 (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=3DMacDaddy&view=videos&start=20)



Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DarthDavis on March 29, 2009, 05:08:28 AM
yeah, providing you get used to the interface, which I will concede is quite good in blender.... assuming you grok darkside. It feels like you must be the acolyte of polys to use it. however i have ony used it long ago.

Oh and BTW, hello everyone! I got MandB a long time ago but I just started playing again now. I would love to help out with models and textures if you want.... in Modo (boo ya!) so I guess I will pm someone here. Onin no rahn is particularly interesting to me as I live in Japan, but I am a fully qualified tolkien-head, having read the books like 5 times before I hit pubert (and then, strangely, my priorities changed ... ) so I would love to help out with TLD too, which I am playing more anyway.

J.


Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on March 29, 2009, 06:24:04 AM
cool, that'd be nice, there's always stuff that need modeling. Do you have any previous works we could take a look at? AW will probably PM you...
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DarthDavis on March 30, 2009, 06:34:52 AM
sure, go to: http://public.me.com/davisjess and download the file "portfolio_sep08.zip"

It's a zipped website, about 50 mb (big turntable vids) of some of the stuff I did last summer. I was working on a game that is still in development. You will need quicktime for the pretties. Just unzip and open index.html

EDIT: I should stipulate that I am no good at rigging, but I would like to try, if necessary
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on March 30, 2009, 09:13:32 AM
Nice, I like the mints and the insect :)

edit: ooo, fluent Japanese! cool. ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: aquiefrog on April 13, 2009, 12:26:39 AM
Um... A while back I made some helmets for TLD, but I completely forgot whether I actually sent in the models and the files, so I'm posting it here again just to be sure.  Just the .obj files.  There's no LOD models as I don't know how.

link: http://www.mbrepository.com/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=6&lid=1203 (http://www.mbrepository.com/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=6&lid=1203)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Manji on May 07, 2009, 04:08:35 PM
Hello there.
First of all, hope all is going well with the current version and that we can all enjoy it... soonish.  ;)

Secondly, I don't know if you guys are still looking for voiceovers/voice artists, i'm not a professional but I've got a micro and i'm willing to help if it's (still)needed. Not quite sure what miscellaneous jobs you need (i'm handy with photoshop) but anything you guys need, count me in.  :D

Btw, my voice is midtone and my english is a bit american-accented; since i'm Portuguese I can also speak with a "european english" accent and the tone is stronger in low tense and lighter in high tense . I reckon my voice would probably be more fitting for the Haradrim/Rhun/Variag factions but I leave that up to you.

Cheers ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 07, 2009, 06:48:28 PM
Thanks Manji :)

Yeah, we are always willing to hear more voice guys. I'll take a look and see what we might still need, and then I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 08, 2009, 07:15:10 PM
Sorry for my bad english. excuse me if I post a stupid question...but, you working at new version of TLD??? if yes I would help you. but I'm not a programmer or professional modder. Rather I'm a deeply understanding and knowing of Tolkien. If you want maps with villages or people's limit or cultural differences, the particulary of some race of Middle-earth, or other, I'm at your service.    :D
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 08, 2009, 08:08:50 PM
Thanks marcigaglio, we'll keep that in mind :)

And yes, we have been working on a new version for a long time. We don't know when it will be ready, but there's a lot of stuff done already ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: weren on May 09, 2009, 11:27:05 AM
Oi, i've done Some voiceacting too, for DayDream-mod. If you're intrested i could help ye too.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 09, 2009, 11:47:19 AM
Hi weren. Sure, what would you like to do? Take a look at the first page for some references.

I'd be glad to hear some samples, send me a PM whenever you have something done ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: weren on May 10, 2009, 06:22:11 AM
I think i could do any of them. Expect the dwarwes, they might be a bit of a challenge. We'll see. :)

Well i prepared few samples, Dablade. Check your pm's. ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 10, 2009, 09:32:44 AM
I think i could do any of them. Expect the dwarwes, they might be a bit of a challenge. We'll see. :)

Well i prepared few samples, Dablade. Check your pm's. ;)

Cool, sent you a PM already.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 14, 2009, 02:32:25 PM
the maps remains the same of old version?
because the times to cover the distances aren't realistic.
and there are only a few settlements, villages or castles.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 14, 2009, 02:40:23 PM
the maps remains the same of old version?
because the times to cover the distances aren't realistic.
and there are only a few settlements, villages or castles.

This is not the place to ask those kind of questions (unless you're offering to help), bu no; there's a new map in the works and it will be even bigger.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 14, 2009, 02:44:11 PM
sorry... ::) , it's all right.      however thank for your answer
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 14, 2009, 03:14:02 PM
No problem.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 14, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Ah,I can calculate the distances (in days) in all part of Middle-hearth. Interest?
Tomorrow'm going out of my city, but I'm going to return sunday afternoon, so I think.  Hi.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 14, 2009, 05:54:46 PM
Ah,I can calculate the distances (in days) in all part of Middle-hearth. Interest?
Tomorrow'm going out of my city, but I'm going to return sunday afternoon, so I think.  Hi.

Yeah, I think it could be interesting to have that kind of information. Maybe we could ask (for example) a traveller in Minas Tirith how many days it would take to go to the Rivendel camp - for a price :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 15, 2009, 03:12:44 AM
from the east gate of moria for Minas-tirith tre are 560 miles through air (in rectilineal line) [like 901,2 Km.  If 1 mile = 1.6093 Km]. Normally, I think, a little group or company of people[human] (about 10-20) cover a distance of 25 miles [about 40 km] in one walking day (it's 9 or 10 hours of nomal speed walk, with a bit pause if you want.  I DON'T TAKE take the NIGHT) through UNEVEN terrain just. Therefore thare are 22 days about, but about 11 if you walking also on the night. fewer if you riding horses. less if you running [or if you are an elf]. more if you are a fat dwarf. On a way (a street, beaten track, path) all walking more fast.

Lňrien is 60-65 miles lenght. the elves are going to go through 1 (or max 1,5) days less.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: jamoecw on May 15, 2009, 03:56:44 AM
if i remember correctly those fat little dwarves have excellent stamina, capable of out performing man in prolonged march.  which meant the movies weren't quite so accurate in that sense.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 15, 2009, 11:09:41 AM
The movies weren't accurate in several ways :)

We'll need to figure out if realistic travel time will work well in game, but it will be good to have this info handy to start with.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Silver Wolf on May 16, 2009, 04:05:05 AM
Ancientwanker, can you send me your e-mail address? I have made some sounds and I would like to send them directly to you ... (I don't want to register on any of those uploading sites) 
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 16, 2009, 10:19:56 AM
Ancientwanker, can you send me your e-mail address? I have made some sounds and I would like to send them directly to you ... (I don't want to register on any of those uploading sites) 

Hi Silver Wolf.

I sent you a PM already, check it out.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Silver Wolf on May 17, 2009, 02:25:18 AM
Are any of them good?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 17, 2009, 10:46:09 AM
Are any of them good?

Sent you another PM already.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: marcigaglio on May 17, 2009, 03:49:53 PM
those fat little dwarves have excellent stamina, yes it's true!  They can walk, or fight, for a log time than the normal human, but they are short-legged. Have a strong costitution is not the same of are short.legged. they can walk all the night if you want but they wouldn't have longer legs.
are 2 different things

any other questions for distances or else (for example: settlement in M-E)?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 17, 2009, 04:13:19 PM

any other questions for distances or else (for example: settlement in M-E)?


Balancing things up will be one of the last things we do before the release, so it's too soon for that. We're still working on the graphics :)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: onepostpony on May 17, 2009, 05:17:18 PM
How's the work on the code?  :green:
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 17, 2009, 10:26:52 PM
Only Ancientwanker knows.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: drpop on May 18, 2009, 06:28:38 PM
And the last time he was on according to his profile was a month and a half ago, so he must be working hard!
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: onepostpony on May 18, 2009, 06:31:34 PM
But does he have the free time to work on the mod? ;)
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 18, 2009, 06:59:27 PM
Ancientwanker isn't always active in the forum. We keep the graphics and sound work going on while he's away, and there's always a lot to be done on that department. Only he knows whatever free time he has to work on the mod, so all we can do is wait and keep things rolling while he's away. Whenever one of us is busy with RL we expect (and hope :P) the others will continue working on the mod.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: avien on May 26, 2009, 05:58:27 AM
Is there still work needed in the voice department? I'd love to make some.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on May 26, 2009, 11:47:04 AM
Is there still work needed in the voice department? I'd love to make some.

We like to add as much variety as possible, so go ahead ;)

Send me a PM when you have something ready.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Petrovski on June 23, 2009, 05:32:28 PM
Hi there, three questions:

1: Do you still need vocal talent? I'm an english speaking actor and I'd love to add something of myself to this project.

2: Do you still need modellers? I've done wings stuff before, not sure how many polys you would want in a weapon say, but this 715 tris:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f313/it01w22/Eowyn-1.jpg

(You'll probably say its too Jacksonesque for this project...

3: Would you want the models in the game or just as a model file like OBJ? (I wouldn't know where to start to get them in game...)

Cheers,

Petrovski
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on June 23, 2009, 05:55:20 PM
Hey Petrovski, welcome to the TLD forum here at MBX.

1: Yes, we do. Take a look at the first page and see if there's something you'd like to do. We can discuss things latter if you wish, feel free to PM me about it.

2: Yes, all the time. That's a nice sword, by the way. We don't mind having some movie-inspired stuff if it doesn't go against what's in the books ;)

3: We can take care of that, no problem. Do you have a texture for it already? I'd have to check it out with the guys, but we probably could use that sword.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on June 24, 2009, 08:27:55 PM
Gah. My microphone stopped working now that my voice has matured to an acceptable point. I guess I have to shell out another $30 for a good one.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on August 17, 2009, 04:37:15 PM
Replaced. Could we get an update on what voice jobs still need doing?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: DaBlade on August 17, 2009, 05:25:13 PM
Replaced. Could we get an update on what voice jobs still need doing?

Do you think you can do orcs? What about elves?
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: timhavens on August 24, 2009, 07:29:00 PM
So, are you guys needing coders mostly at this point since the project is proceeding sans Ancientwanker?  If so, I may be able to help.  I haven't done much modding work with M&B, but I majored in computer engineering, and am a competent (if rusty) programmer.  Let me know what sort of stuff needs doing, and I can at least see if I'd be capable.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Northcott on August 28, 2009, 01:16:44 PM
Heya, guys.  I'm new to M&B, having only been playing for a month or so, but stumbled across your mod and did my little geek squeal of glee.  I loved Tolkien's work, was sort of lukewarm about the movies (never finished watching them), so finding out that there's a mod being developed by people who are even nuttier about Tolkien than I am? Awesome. :D  

And I only say 'nuttier' because I've forgotten a great deal over the years. ;)

Anyway -- I'm afraid I can't be of much help, but I'd like to lend a hand where and when I can.  I'm just not sure of what you guys need.  is there any NPC development left to do? Quest and/or dialogue trees to be written? Concept sketches to be done? (I can't model worth a damn, but I'm a professional illustrator... and periodically turn out decent texture/skin alterations for models, if given a base to work from.)  

I'm figuring you're probably well past these stages, but figured I'd offer just in case you can still use a hand.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: azile0 on October 31, 2009, 12:18:54 PM
PM DaBlade. Help is always appreciated. As for the voice work, I could give orcs a try.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Merlkir on October 31, 2009, 12:34:43 PM
Northcott, do you have any kind of portfolio I could look at?

TLD is not a normal production really, there is always a need for new concept art/ texture.s
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: octoburn on October 31, 2009, 09:16:50 PM
I was corresponding for a while (over a month) with Northcott about a few Corsair armor textures I was interested in having done. Haven't heard back from him in over a month, though.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Shik on December 08, 2009, 09:26:52 PM
Hey guys, if you still need some scripters, I'm willing to help out. I'm a bit busy with other projects, but I think I might be able to contribute a little bit.
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Brutus on December 08, 2009, 09:46:50 PM
Hi Shik.  I think we would benefit greatly from some additional scripting support.  Im just a hack, as you already know. :D  But i am pretty confident we could use a script jockey or two, or eight. :P

I'll find out.

Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: forcem on January 25, 2010, 05:20:19 AM
Hi.  :green:

nice find this mod, incredible art work, i see that you don´t based in films because of that i wonder if you go to use the soundtrack of the film. i can offer my service as musican  :D
for example here the soundtrak that i made for 1144 almohade invasion mod http://www.hispasonicos.com/index.php?controller=track&action=play&id=30742
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: Kazzan on January 26, 2010, 12:20:49 PM
Pagan is currently doing the music for this mod, and that song you made is awesome.  :P
Title: Re: TLD: Help needed: Models, Voices & Miscellaneous Jobs
Post by: forcem on January 29, 2010, 05:18:36 PM
thanks Kazzan, if youwant a song tell me to do it  ;)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Kolba on March 23, 2010, 01:48:47 AM
Hello guys, I would like to help you with some aspects of modding. I am pretty busy with my projects, however I want to help get this mod to the released version. I have been following progress connected with TLD from about 0.731 times and I must say that 0.808 version is better than all the mods from versions 0.894-1.011.

I would like to help with scripting and retexturing some models (can't model anything, sorry). If you want, I could make some unique quests, dialogs, new NPCs and other scripting tasks. Check my mod, Song of Taliesin, I have made lots of colour variations for models (for example six colours of woolen caps, tunics, boots/shoes etc.), so I guess I can make the same with TLD.

Regards,
Kolba

Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: GetAssista on March 23, 2010, 04:50:27 AM
I would like to help with scripting and retexturing some models (can't model anything, sorry). If you want, I could make some unique quests, dialogs, new NPCs and other scripting tasks. Check my mod, Song of Taliesin, I have made lots of colour variations for models (for example six colours of woolen caps, tunics, boots/shoes etc.), so I guess I can make the same with TLD.
Hey, Kolba, nice to see you here!

We do not need any more variations of items since we are banging against item limit for quite some time already with all the new models. Subsequent variations are done through heraldry engine now.
Quest scripting though is always welcome, as far as I know. Does Song of Taliesin contain new quests we can look on to see what you can do?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Kolba on March 23, 2010, 05:01:24 AM
Quote
Does Song of Taliesin contain new quests we can look on to see what you can do?

There are two quests right now (escorting bishop and finding the lost flute of bard Aethelfrith), but over 50 are planned to be done.

Edit: So what kind of quests are you looking for?
Title: Easterling/Harad accents.
Post by: lotrlum on March 29, 2010, 01:21:28 PM
What type of voice would Harad and Easterlings have? I'm guessing Harad have Middle-Eastern accents but what would easterlings have? Would it also be Middle-Eastern or more Russian/Eastern European?

While I'm here asking questions, is a place such as The Haradrim Camp or whatever, is that a Town, Village or a Castle? And could you tell me what areas that are in the 0.808 version would be towns, or is everything from there a town and you've added more little areas for Villages + Castles.. OOOR did you invent you're own little town/village/castle mixer thingy from the awesomesauce being feuled by your viewers eyegasyms?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Llew on March 29, 2010, 05:57:44 PM
Ah, I'll go with the awesomesauce number.  :P

We've done away with castles and villages. All the locations have pretty much the same status, courtesy of the new war spawn system.

As for voices, an accent would be cool for sure, but by no means necessary. If you have a good voice, go for it and don't worry about accents.

Quote
Does Song of Taliesin contain new quests we can look on to see what you can do?

There are two quests right now (escorting bishop and finding the lost flute of bard Aethelfrith), but over 50 are planned to be done.

Edit: So what kind of quests are you looking for?
Hey Kolba, sorry I haven't responded sooner. On vacation and all that.

Anyway, I'm familiar with your work, and it's cool. About quests: we've done some initial brainstorming for different quests we want in, but we've been focusing on the war system for the most part, trying to get that nailed down before we move onto the other scripting. However, we should be moving on to that point in the next several weeks, and we'll be plenty happy for your help.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Aranvardo on April 16, 2010, 01:36:38 PM
hi, I know my way with wings 3d and can model almos any shape i tried, so if you need something ask me, even PM me for my e-mail and i can shape any drawing design, i mean, i've been making my own swords and weapons for mount & blade for some time, swords, bows, axes, everything wiht it's respective scabbard, frog, quiver or container in general (i just hate RPG's where weapons just dissapear) but i don't want to impose my designs on your creation, just give a hand... PM if you need anything...

     Oh and this isn't a prank or an attemp to get a peek... it's an honest, humble offer, if you know of someone you can teach me how to rig models ii'll be able to make armor & body parts
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 16, 2010, 02:03:30 PM
Could you show us some of your work?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Aranvardo on April 16, 2010, 06:24:29 PM
ok... i don't know how to upload pictures but let me try... im pretty green with this... i never used internet until a few months back... never needed it, never had time for it... let's see...


 [img http://yfrog.com/4vrohanhorsej]http://[/img]
 (http://)http://yfrog.com/1coliphantuj

 (http://)http://yfrog.com/0lmuestraifj

 (http://)http://yfrog.com/6bworkinprogressj
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on April 17, 2010, 05:58:14 AM
Aranvardo, I tried to fix your links but I couldn't manage to do it :P

Merlkir, he's the guy who made that stuff I posted in the dev forum.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 17, 2010, 07:28:25 AM
Are you in particular need for any monstery voices ATM (Uruks, trolls, whichever)? I might try my hand at one of those, if so. But, that's assuming my sound equipment is good enough to be any use to you.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Tautalos on April 17, 2010, 02:47:07 PM
(http://)http://yfrog.com/6bworkinprogressj

Atlantean sword! :o

How about adding that one as an easter egg?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Faradon on April 17, 2010, 03:49:02 PM
NO!
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Tautalos on April 17, 2010, 06:10:15 PM
Fine, take it easy. ;)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 18, 2010, 01:55:34 AM
I... guess not, then o.o? I'm not sure if I'd be handy for any other voicework, but I could try it out, and send it if it's any good. What would you need?

EDIT: Oh, I see that there's some stuff listed on the first post. Now I feel silly. Assuming it's up to date, I'll have a try and some of the orc lines, maybe the ones in Orcish.


EDIT2: OK, I'm pretty satisfied with his Ghash Ahg Burzum went. I guess I contact Dablade and ask him to look at the file?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: trueten on April 18, 2010, 03:36:25 AM
Could somebody reupload somewhere those sounds in the first post (newgondorshouts.mp3, OrcShouts.mp3, etc.)? Those links are broken and I really would like to listen some of those.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 18, 2010, 05:48:44 AM
I sent the stuff to DaBlade. Ghash agh Burzum, For the Eye!, We are the Fighting Uruk-Hai, Uruk Snarl, Death, Death to Men, Tark, and Tark-glob were all sent. Not sure if any or some of these will be accepted, just mentioning in case someone was about to do orc voices. DaBlade or I will tell you if any or none were accepted, I'd say.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on April 18, 2010, 09:53:03 AM
Conners will be making some cool voices for TLD :green: Orcs and Uruks should be pretty well covered after this, together with what we already had before.

I'll need to update the first post (regarding voices) soon, but I'm too busy with RL work at the moment. I'll do that as soon as possible.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 18, 2010, 10:47:08 AM
Hm! Say, Conners, are you a native english speaker?

(we could still use Harad and Easterling voices, but there's a ton of very difficult pronunciation.)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 19, 2010, 02:43:11 AM
Thanks DaBlade :).


@Melkir: It's my best language, certainly. I have a talent with certain accents, typically ones I invent for characters. Depending on the speech patterns and accent you want, I might be of much help with one of the other factions. If it's not too much trouble, having an audio/video example would be very helpful.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 19, 2010, 06:39:41 AM
It's not much about accents as it's about pronunciation very different to english. It's hard for any native speaker to even read the text properly, let alone act it. I'll try to dig out the post with the pronunciation guide.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 19, 2010, 07:04:33 AM
Pronunciation would also be very helpful, thank you.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Tautalos on April 19, 2010, 07:39:42 AM
You guys want British accents?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 19, 2010, 07:47:24 AM
Tautalos: right now I'd love to have a Persian or Arab person, but we take who we get. ;)

Conners:  Here you go. Take a look, maybe try the orders (as they're quite short). Experiment, see if you can do the phonetics. The long sentences are undoable for most people at the moment, I may find a way to shorten them so they're easier to pronounce with more punch.

This is an old project I've been working on for our MiddleEarth RPG session, but never finished it. It might be of some use ;)

Harad languages:

Harondor: - near Harad would use a modern version of the Harad language. The ancient grammar is simplified and old words are mixed with many words from Quenya (Numenorean influence) and words from the languages of Khand.
Great Harad: - people from Great Harad use a much more archaic version of the language with more complicated grammar and they don't use words from Quenya at all.
Far Harad: - primitive language very loosely related to the great Harad language. Lacks complex abstract terms and has a great amount of adjectives. 

The pronunciation is very different to english. "o" is similar as in "not", "a" as in "ah", "e" as in "let", "i" as ee or in "lip", "u" is similar to "oo" as in "ooze" or "loop". "R" is sharp and strong like a russian "r", "k" is always pronounced as Tolkien's elven "c". (so it's similar to english k, but sharper and clearer. as in "look" maybe.)
á,ú,é,í,ó - long versions of the vowels described before. "š" is "sh" as in "shoe". "j" is not english j (as in "jew", "juice" etc.), but like "i" or "y" in "yew". "h" is usually silent or half-silent. "ch" is not english as in "chemical", but like a russian or hebrew "ch". (can't describe better :/ sorry)

Harad words  -  boghi - god
                         náru - snake
                         bádag - dragon/serpent
                         vurka - wolf
                         šér - lion
                         varu - tiger
                         haraš - eagle
                         inkaba - oliphaunt
                         mereko - bird
                         mereko a kerešhvar- carrion bird
                         adhvaró - eat
                         hvaretha - food
                         sámach - black/dark
                         sukrá - red
                         uverja - chosen
                         y(j)ala - guard
                         karimnala - acolyte/priest
                         aniur - religious
                         parkui - pure
                         daluki - long
                         áfar - fire
                         šejmir - sword/ weapon
                         uštem - arrow/ dart
                         aka - bow
                         nevi - no/none
                         adum - I
                         admue - I am
                         odmue - you are
                         vadmechí - we are
                         udmue - he/she/it is
                         udmechí - they are
                         av - for
                         am - this/that
                         pukia - son
                         bastiš - soldier
                         parúv - much
                         veši - many
                         váka - mace
                         aspa - horse
                         áruja - spear
                         árubira/áruštka - spearman
                         aspabira - horseman
                         vákabira - mace/rod bearer
                         heiná - enemy (pl)
                         tuchma - brave
                         (t)apupaniya - archer
                         otí - and
                         vejša - great/mighty
                         vejdiša - greatest
                         áthasa - stone
                         ákeufasiya - mountain dwellers (dwarves?)
                         hamerúm - battle 
                         ámauta - noble
                         chaki - from
                         mányata - household/bloodline
                         tiumáta - family
                         chauva - hat/helmet
                         chšaka - empire
                         abí - to, towards
                         išuba - battle axe
                         biganu - destroy
                         jál - attack
                         verjál - Attack!
                         achuvá - fear
                         frannátar - commander
                         jíhva - alive
                         mártva - dead
                         márja - to die
                         majál - to kill
                         virmajál - to wipe out
                         jaltir - crusher/ striker
                         namauvi - angry/ vengeful
                         frajál - cut off
                         núntha - to flee
                         idú - here
                         jatánus - sorcerer
                         súrach - evil
                         chnuta - to please
                         játa - until
                         daranaja - gold
                         thaba - to burn     
                         Vidarma - the Ripper       
                         spáthanija - army camp   
                         skuthi - weak
                         kraftha - draw (weapons)
                         kareme - head     
                         frabaró - bring 

Battle Orders:
Hold position!      - Dárava ašnaí!
Charge!              - Verjál!
Hold formation!   - Gaithastúná!
Follow me!          - Sekuru adum!
Break formation!  - Biganstúná!
Mount horses!     - Aspi biram!
Dismount horses! - Aspi nibiram! 
Advance!            - Faraí!


I'll be adding useful words from Quenya and also phrases we can use for battlecries and maybe even conversations ingame. And names for items (unique weapons?)

"Odmue hvaretha av mereki-a-kerešhvar!"  - "You will feed the birds!"  (You are - food - for - birds - eating corpses)
"Odum vermajál otí verthaba av daranaja-e-jatánus!" - "Kill and burn for sorcerer's gold!"  (You - kill - and - burn - for - gold - of sorcerer)
"Odum vermajál otí verthaba av boghi-a-sámach!"  - "Kill and burn for the dark god!"    (You - kill - and - burn - for - god - dark)
"Odum verfrajál karemi-a-heiná!"  -  "Cut off heads of the enemies!"         (You - cut off - heads - of enemies)
"Odum vebiganu heiná-e-skuthi!"  -  "Destroy the weak enemies!"            (You - destroy - enemy - weak)
"Pukiai a náru-a-sámach!"   -  "Sons of the black snake!"                          (Sons - of - snake - black)
"Av Mányata a bádag-a-vejša!"  -  "For the house of the Mighty Serpent!"  (For - household - of - dragon - mighty)
"Abí hamerúm!"  -  "To battle!"  (Towards - battle)
"Frajál-a-karemi uchnute adum!"  -  "I love cutting heads!"                        (Cutting off - of heads - pleases - I)
"Apupaniya-e-ámauva ochnute adum!"  -  "I like you, noble archer!" ;)        (Archer - noble - you please - I)
"Odum frebaró aspi av ami bastiši-a-tuchma!"  -  "Bring horses for these brave soldiers!"   (You - bring - horses - for - these - soldiers - brave)
"Achuvá-e-nevi!"  -  "Fear not!"    (Fear - none)

and yeah, I'm aware it's long and a native english speaker is probably going to entangle his tongue on this :D
For better punch the pronoun bits like Odum can be left out or silenced, the same with -a- it serves as a word joiner. So karemi-a-heiná is pronounced as karemi(a)heiná.

possible items (shortened derived forms to the right): 
  • Chauva-e-bádag - Dragon Helmet   - Chaubadag
  • Išuba-e-sámach - Black Battleaxe   - Išubasach
  • Áruja-e-sukrá - Red Spear   - Ársukrá
  • Šejmir-a-jaltál - Sword of Crushing   - Šejmirtál
  • Váka-e-achuva - Mace of Fear   - Váchuva

sample of Harad writing:  (sorry, it's not exactly calligraphy, I don't have a tablet here)

(http://pospabr.sweb.cz/HaradWritingDragon.jpg)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Bloid on April 19, 2010, 12:35:13 PM
Wow, the mod even has its own new Harad languages? Impressive, and just the sort of thing Tolkien would probably have kept doing if he hadn't died.

There's only one (http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/mannish.htm) possibly canonical Harad-langugage word and that's Inkâ-nus(h) or Incánus, a name for Gandalf that means "North-spy". I say "possibly" since Tolkien also considered making it Quenya for "Mind-leader".

The Khand-language gets three canonical words - Khand itself, Variag and műmak. (Variag is a variant of Varangian but I'm talking in-universe).
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 19, 2010, 12:46:51 PM
Yep, those I am aware of. ;) I must really try to put together some Variag language bits.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Bloid on April 19, 2010, 01:11:24 PM
Not meaning to lecture, but just pointing out the vast difference, of course.  8)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 19, 2010, 06:42:57 PM
In an amount of ways, it'd be easier to have a pronunciation-version of the word next to it :o. Can do that myself before saying words, of course--as long as I don't misread. Generally, the pronunciation doesn't seem too hard so far. Only thing I'm not certain of is the sharp "R" you mention. Think I have it, though, so I'll try it out and send you a sentence or two, when I get back from work (unless I get to feel too sick).

You want me to do the words listed on the original post, or some of the ones in that quote, just wondering (I assume the former)? Will also have to do those orc voices--put it off for the sake of my voice-box.


EDIT: Got back, was feeling pretty sick, so I mightn't get to do it right now, sorry :(! I'll try if the opportunity arises. I'll just try my hand at the pronunciation in written form, to see ahead of time how well I understand.

o = o ((not "oh")) as in "not" or "yacht".

a = ah

e = e ((not "ee")) as in "let" or "met".

i = ee. OR i as in "lip"??

u = oo

I recall some Russian, now, so I think I know the type of R you mean.

k = sharp c, got it.

"á,ú,é,í,ó - long versions of the vowels described before. "š" is "sh" as in "shoe"." Might take some practice to get it how you want it, but I should manage.

Like Jehova. y or i.

h silent or half-silent.

Sort of a "tyah" almost? Might need the audio examples for that. Either way, I'll need something for the accent and speech patterns, to get them correct. The movies seemed to do it well, but the Haradrim didn't have a lot of lines.



"Odum vebiganu heiná-e-skuthi!"  -  "Destroy the weak enemies!"   (You - destroy - enemy - weak)
"o-doom   ve-bee-gah-noo   he-ee-naah - e - scoo-t~h~ee"

Something like that, I'd guess. That's also pretty confusing, though xD. Let's try saying it... I can get the words, but putting them together into the sentence properly will be difficult. I can probably say each word individually then edit them together, for the meantime (if it works that way).

For now, though, need to concentrate on orcs, and work on this on the side. Let's try some more.


"Abí hamerúm!"  -  "To battle!"  (Towards - battle)
ah-beee   hah-me-Rooom
Like that?


"Odum vermajál otí verthaba av daranaja-e-jatánus!" - "Kill and burn for sorcerer's gold!"  (You - kill - and - burn - for - gold - of sorcerer)
o-doom   ve-R-mah-jaahl   o-teee   ve-R-t~h~ah-bah   ahv   dah-Rahn-ah-jah - e - jah-taahn-oos

I can get the words relatively well, with practice, assuming I haven't messed up the pronunciation versions. Want these recorded, when I can get around to it?
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on April 20, 2010, 09:14:08 AM
The pronunciation you transcribed seems correct. Feel free to leave out the pronouns like odum/admue..etc. It should make the sentences shorter and more appropriate for battlecries. Also, if it's still too long, simple two-words or single words will do. We can live with the Haradrim going around shouting "Red snake!!!!" or "For the sorcerrer!!" instead of long sentences ;P

The best thing is, even if you don't get it as I imagine it, it'll be ok, because the Haradrim are from many tribes and some of the more distant ones would definitely pronounce differently.

Considering the "R" - it's this sort of eastern R, not curled with tongue in the back like English has, but played on the teeth. The difference is well shown in the movies - Frodo pronounces Sauron and Mordor with the English R, Saruman and Gandalf (being the wizards they are) pronounce them correctly with the proper R.

edit: if you can, listen to some Japanese in Samurai movies shouting stuff. Japanese (similarly to my Harad language) has many words and it takes many words to express something (often). So a simple challenge or a battle cry will be a rather long sentence - the Japanese have a way of machine-gun firing the words you may find useful. OR use Persian (ton of clips on Youtube) and use some of their intonation.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Aranvardo on April 20, 2010, 10:16:13 AM
guys, a detail, the pronunciation of many words in the tolkien's languages are identical in Spanish, i'm saying so you can, have some ground to search...
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on April 20, 2010, 10:33:24 AM
Just try to keep them as short as possible; short ones work a lot better in game.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 21, 2010, 08:28:29 AM
I'm starting to feel better, now. If it keeps up, I'll probably do voices tomorrow. Hope so.


EDIT: Had an idea for the Uruks, but it might require a bit of scripting. I was wondering about having a "Doh-ru, Dah-shu" chant. This would be good for Victories. And maybe at the start of battle, before you've made contact with the enemy (perhaps that happens only if you have overwhelming odds?)?

The scripting part, would be that you'd want the Uruks to all loop the chant a few times, and for all/most of them to do it. Wouldn't be a problem if some uruks break out with a different battle/victory cry occasionally. I don't guess orcs would be interested in the chant. You'd only want this to happen once every so often, I'd say, if you have quite a few uruks, so it wouldn't get old.

Not sure how possible the suggested stuff is to do, just thought I'd suggest because it'd be a neat touch for movie-watchers to hear that chant. I'll not do the voicing for it just yet (to get it to sound right, you'd probably want several voicing of the chant, to make it sound like different people when it's merged). Come to think of it... that'd probably take up some of the voicing limit, I guess -_-"? In which case, we mightn't be able to do this until there's a work-about (such as, if Warband allows more voices).

I'll leave this hanging for you, either way.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Conners on April 27, 2010, 12:53:55 AM
Feeling sick again, so I have been doing voices so much, sorry :'(.....


In the mean time, waiting for stuff for the Easterlings and anything else needed for the Haradrim. Hoping to get better and help more soon.
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on April 30, 2010, 08:30:23 PM
Feeling sick again, so I have been doing voices so much, sorry :'(.....


In the mean time, waiting for stuff for the Easterlings and anything else needed for the Haradrim. Hoping to get better and help more soon.

Hey Conners, I hope you get better soon. I told you before; take it easy regarding your voice-box (or whatever you call it, English is not my first language). You don't want to stress it too much, because it may lead to some serious damage.

It's still going to take a while before release time, so there's no need to rush ;)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: Merlkir on May 01, 2010, 01:16:45 AM
Can't. Help. With. Anything. At. The. Moment. Too. Busy.


(will be back with some advice and more linguistics soon, I promise.)
Title: Re: TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: tryadelion on May 01, 2010, 11:15:34 AM
 :green:

that sound like a radio transmission.
Title: Re: (old) TLD Help needed: Models and Voices
Post by: DaBlade on July 01, 2010, 03:09:10 AM
New and updated thread started:

http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,2181.0.html

Locking this one now, thanks guys :)