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Mount&Blade Expansion => Mod Graveyard => Discussion => Topic started by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 12, 2007, 07:17:40 PM

Title: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 12, 2007, 07:17:40 PM
The following is copy-pasted from a Taleworlds thread I started yesterday. Since I get the feeling that more serious modding is done over here, I reckon this is the place for this.




I had a sudden inspiration today, and I acted on it. I made a catapult, which when struck would rotate its arm as though it were firing. This is nothing new, but the following is.

I made it spawn and instantly kill a river pirate where the ammunition should have been. With the ragdoll, the river pirate went tumbling through the air over the city of Tihr in a physically accurate manner. Now what I'm thinking is this: make a troop that looks exactly like a barrel or a large stone, and repeat the same process, and you have a real working catapult without any ineloquent moving scene props, and with perfect trajectory, ready to go in any scene.

I tried to make it launch a horse, but the agent killing commands don't work on horses, it seems.

(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1856/corpsecatapultbn3.png) (http://imageshack.us)

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Kasemacher on November 12, 2007, 07:21:16 PM
You should make a short Youtube video.  10-20 seconds would be plenty of time.

I am wondering about making a troop that is ammunition because wouldn't it spawn in any other battles?  Also, I do not think getting hit by a corpse kills anyone in M&B.  Very interesting though.

I am by no means an expert at modding, just posting my thoughts.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 12, 2007, 07:25:49 PM
You should make a short Youtube video.  10-20 seconds would be plenty of time.
May do it this weekend.

I am wondering about making a troop that is ammunition because wouldn't it spawn in any other battles?  Also, I do not think getting hit by a corpse kills anyone in M&B.  Very interesting though.
No. The ammunition troop is unconnected to the party, and is spawned by the scene prop and thus has no effect on the battle.

Also, I do not think getting hit by a corpse kills anyone in M&B.
No, but that is easy to mod in. Fire a trigger every tenth of a second that checks for a dead ammo troop, checks to see if it has moved since the last firing of the trigger, and if so, kills any troop within a certain range of the ammo troop. Sounds complicated, but could be done in about ten lines of code.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 12, 2007, 08:00:57 PM
But this has to be the best screenshot in the history of M&B.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: grailknighthero on November 12, 2007, 08:28:10 PM
I am wondering about making a troop that is ammunition because wouldn't it spawn in any other battles?  Also, I do not think getting hit by a corpse kills anyone in M&B.  Very interesting though.
Neither does getting hit by scene props but highlander and KON_air have done it.

But this has to be the best screenshot in the history of M&B.

Ya I never thought Id see a trebuchet\catapult\magonel throwing a troop around the battlefield.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Kasemacher on November 12, 2007, 08:39:50 PM
Grods, you are spoling the M&B community by all the things you're developing.  You're doing ship combat, now catapults?   :D
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 12, 2007, 09:05:39 PM
Grods, you are spoling the M&B community by all the things you're developing.  You're doing ship combat, now catapults?   :D
Hopefully in combination at some point.  :P
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: KON_Air on November 13, 2007, 12:08:36 AM
No, you can simply choose that agent and make it hurt when it hits, you can even make a prop follow it (ie, invis agent, prop moving to its location all the time) :shock:

I never thought of that, it can pretty much be the easy answer to trajectory calculations.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 13, 2007, 03:10:12 AM
No, you can simply choose that agent and make it hurt when it hits, you can even make a prop follow it (ie, invis agent, prop moving to its location all the time) :shock:

I never thought of that, it can pretty much be the easy answer to trajectory calculations.

And you can call custom animations etc. when it lands (i.e. stops moving), possibly spawning scene props when the operation becomes available in future versions of M&B. Greek fire, anyone?
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 13, 2007, 06:17:03 AM
And you can call custom animations etc. when it lands (i.e. stops moving), possibly spawning scene props when the operation becomes available in future versions of M&B. Greek fire, anyone?
Don't even need to spawn. There is a scene prop replace operation, and it wouldn't be to difficult to replace an invisible scene prop.

No, you can simply choose that agent and make it hurt when it hits, you can even make a prop follow it (ie, invis agent, prop moving to its location all the time) :shock:

I never thought of that, it can pretty much be the easy answer to trajectory calculations.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Fisheye on November 13, 2007, 07:33:51 AM
Using ragdoll physics to create parabolas is complete and utter genius. Brilliant! Keep going!
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 13, 2007, 07:56:00 AM
Don't even need to spawn. There is a scene prop replace operation, and it wouldn't be to difficult to replace an invisible scene prop.

The problem with that, though, is that you'd have to place all the ammunition props beforehand (ugly hack) and would therefore only have a finite amount of ammunition.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 13, 2007, 08:12:29 AM
Everything has a finite amount of ammunition - unless you plan to have guys out there with shovels collecting rocks, so you can throw the whole world at them one stone at a time.

Then again, if you're down to throwing random stones, you probably should rethink your whole strategy.

Generally it's considered preferable to throw something that will do some critical damage - either dead things to spread disease, or incendiary materials/explosives/chemical agents (in whatever combination).  In the case of large trebuchet, round stones were used against stone walls - but these stones were cut for size and weight so they would fly straight ... not just every rock in the field.

Generally speaking, everything has finite ammunition.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Fisheye on November 13, 2007, 08:17:45 AM
You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Hellequin on November 13, 2007, 10:46:09 AM
Ron, Winter was talking about finiteness in the sense of it requiring one-to-one prop placement work per shot.  We can achieve finite ammo counts by script, and only need to change a single number, if we use the spawned implementation the original poster tried.

I echo the comment - that's a brilliant implementation, well done.  Perhaps we should suggest to Armagan that the next module system version might have the ability to kick in ragdoll effects for a scene prop, perhaps for a limited time or on a triggered basis only.  Even better, let it have an initial vector we supply. Tremendous potential.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 13, 2007, 04:27:10 PM
Don't even need to spawn. There is a scene prop replace operation, and it wouldn't be to difficult to replace an invisible scene prop.

The problem with that, though, is that you'd have to place all the ammunition props beforehand (ugly hack) and would therefore only have a finite amount of ammunition.
Given that they can be placed anywhere and will be invisible till replacement, I doubt that that would be much of a problem, though I'll concede that spawning would be far handier.

You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Good idea. Incredibly simple to code and vastly beneficial. It will be one of the first things I do with it this weekend.

Perhaps we should suggest to Armagan that the next module system version might have the ability to kick in ragdoll effects for a scene prop, perhaps for a limited time or on a triggered basis only.  Even better, let it have an initial vector we supply. Tremendous potential.
I actually posted that very suggestion in the "Module system wish list" thread over on taleworlds.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 13, 2007, 08:21:17 PM
Given that they can be placed anywhere and will be invisible till replacement, I doubt that that would be much of a problem, though I'll concede that spawning would be far handier.

Yeah, that's the only point I was making.


Quote
You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Good idea. Incredibly simple to code and vastly beneficial. It will be one of the first things I do with it this weekend.

Say, Grodsgenhaigen, have I offered you a position on the Storymod team yet? We could use someone like you, particularly to make up some nice siege scenes (although there's plenty of other stuff to do if you prefer).
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 13, 2007, 08:25:51 PM
You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Good idea. Incredibly simple to code and vastly beneficial. It will be one of the first things I do with it this weekend.

Say, Grodsgenhaigen, have I offered you a position on the Storymod team yet? We could use someone like you, particularly to make up some nice siege scenes (although there's plenty of other stuff to do if you prefer).
No. In fact, when I last offered my services (with the early stages of my ship combat code) you actually rejected me.  :lol:

Anyway, I will gladly accept this offer. Don't expect too much, though, as I have too much homework to afford the time spent on m+b modding on school nights. I swear...every time I touch the module system it turns into a four-hour modding Odyssey.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: grailknighthero on November 13, 2007, 10:04:56 PM
Anyway, I will gladly accept this offer. Don't expect too much, though, as I have too much homework to afford the time spent on m+b modding on school nights. I swear...every time I touch the module system it turns into a four-hour modding Odyssey.

Tell me about it....If only professors would understand we have better things to do than what they assign :D
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 13, 2007, 10:16:41 PM
Anyway, I will gladly accept this offer. Don't expect too much, though, as I have too much homework to afford the time spent on m+b modding on school nights. I swear...every time I touch the module system it turns into a four-hour modding Odyssey.

Tell me about it....If only professors would understand we have better things to do than what they assign :D

Don't be too hard on the profs ... some of us take it personally.  (Me, mtarini, how many other university instructors do we have around here?  More than a few, I bet.)


--------------------------
Winter:  You turned down this guy's help first round?  Bad call.  Never turn down help.  80% of the major mods around here would have NEVER got off the ground if any offer of help had been turned down.

Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: grailknighthero on November 13, 2007, 10:59:33 PM
Anyway, I will gladly accept this offer. Don't expect too much, though, as I have too much homework to afford the time spent on m+b modding on school nights. I swear...every time I touch the module system it turns into a four-hour modding Odyssey.

Tell me about it....If only professors would understand we have better things to do than what they assign :D

Don't be too hard on the profs ... some of us take it personally.  (Me, mtarini, how many other university instructors do we have around here?  More than a few, I bet.)
Sorry :-[...But cant you tell my professors that they should give M&B modding homework instead, at least my programming professors?  Cause this makes no sense to me.  I think my professor explained it well enough but to me and the rest of the people in my class this seems like an alien language:
Code: [Select]
$(PROGRAM) : $(OBJS)
        $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) $^ $(LIBS) -o $@

-include $(OBJS:.o:=.d)

%.d : %.c
        set -e; $(C) -MM $(CFLAGS) $< \
                | sed 's/\($*\)\.o[ :]*/\1.o $@ : /g' > $@; \
                [ -s $@ ] || rm -f $@

%.o : %.c
        $(COMPILE) $< -o $@

You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Are you guys talking about hitting it with like a sword or something?  I cant even imagine how you would code that.  I am continually impressed by what people accomplish with this game.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 13, 2007, 11:04:40 PM
Don't know anything about programming ... I teach Western Civ.

Presumably the "whack the catapult" would be a "use" command.  It would look stupid beating on it with a knife or something.

Highlander had some good code for wheeled chassis weapons that can be aimed.  It was designed for cannon and Gatling guns, but might do catapults as well.  It was kind of "look down the barrel and fire", so it might not be the desired feel for a trebuchet.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: fujiwara on November 14, 2007, 12:08:28 AM
Quote
Code: [Select]
$(PROGRAM) : $(OBJS)
        $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) $^ $(LIBS) -o $@

-include $(OBJS:.o:=.d)

%.d : %.c
        set -e; $(C) -MM $(CFLAGS) $< \
                | sed 's/\($*\)\.o[ :]*/\1.o $@ : /g' > $@; \
                [ -s $@ ] || rm -f $@

%.o : %.c
        $(COMPILE) $< -o $@

what is that, Perl? Why are they teaching Perl? There are SO MANY better languages out there than Perl
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 14, 2007, 05:27:12 AM
You also need to make the catapult aimable, like if you whack it a bit on the right wheel it rotates to the right, and so on. And also something to control power.
Are you guys talking about hitting it with like a sword or something?  I cant even imagine how you would code that.  I am continually impressed by what people accomplish with this game.
Actually, there is a specific operation to make a scene prop react when struck with a weapon. It is the simplest method of operating it for now, but shouldn't take too much trouble to replace once I have everything else working right.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 14, 2007, 05:42:33 AM
Presumably reacting when "use" on the appropriate rear wheel would work the same as reacting when struck, and not look so crazy.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 14, 2007, 05:44:38 AM
Yes, but its a fair bit more complicated. Don't worry. The way I'm doing it now is only temporary cop-out so that I can work on more important aspects of it.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 14, 2007, 06:19:00 AM
No. In fact, when I last offered my services (with the early stages of my ship combat code) you actually rejected me.  :lol:

Well, yeah, I'm still not using any ship combat . . . :P

Please don't get me wrong, the only reason I didn't want to implement your code was because I wouldn't ever get a chance to use it.


Quote
Anyway, I will gladly accept this offer. Don't expect too much, though, as I have too much homework to afford the time spent on m+b modding on school nights. I swear...every time I touch the module system it turns into a four-hour modding Odyssey.


Winter:  You turned down this guy's help first round?  Bad call.  Never turn down help.  80% of the major mods around here would have NEVER got off the ground if any offer of help had been turned down.

This wasn't an offer of general code help, just an offer of a specific block of code that (unfortunately) wasn't any good to me.

Regardless, I've always had high standards of code hygiene and neatness, so I rarely take on inexperienced people -- those I've worked with in the past have ended up doing not a jot of good because their code was so messy and full of holes that it'd take me longer to fix and recode than to write it from scratch. When I've tried to help them get their material up to snuff, they've mostly been uninterested, and all of them have flaked out on me sooner or later before contributing anything useful.

The only other coder who has ever contributed significant amounts of work to Storymod is Fisheye the magnificent. So the only reason Storymod has come this far is because of me working on it endlessly even though I know I shouldn't.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 14, 2007, 06:27:58 AM
... working on it endlessly even when you know you shouldn't ...

That about describes all of us, I figure.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: grailknighthero on November 14, 2007, 08:41:58 AM
Quote
Code: [Select]
$(PROGRAM) : $(OBJS)
        $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) $^ $(LIBS) -o $@

-include $(OBJS:.o:=.d)

%.d : %.c
        set -e; $(C) -MM $(CFLAGS) $< \
                | sed 's/\($*\)\.o[ :]*/\1.o $@ : /g' > $@; \
                [ -s $@ ] || rm -f $@

%.o : %.c
        $(COMPILE) $< -o $@

what is that, Perl? Why are they teaching Perl? There are SO MANY better languages out there than Perl

Thats Perl?  I didnt know that.  It was with a compiler to make some makefile thing that only compiles the files we change instead of having to compile everything.  They do teach a Perl class here though and if that is Perl, Im not taking it.

... working on it endlessly even when you know you shouldn't ...
That about describes all of us, I figure.
That or haunting the forums when we shouldnt be.
Actually, there is a specific operation to make a scene prop react when struck with a weapon. It is the simplest method of operating it for now, but shouldn't take too much trouble to replace once I have everything else working right.
Ok, ya the code in scene props for the tutorial dummy.  I forgot about that.  Have you got the catapult to do damage yet? 
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 14, 2007, 03:20:25 PM
Have you got the catapult to do damage yet? 
No. I only mod or play m+b on the weekends.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: KON_Air on November 14, 2007, 08:14:59 PM
I don't mean to be an ass but the replace_scene prop is intended only to be used with sieges, to replace battlement. I mean it only works with ti_before_mission... and the spawn_prop is just sitting there commented out for few versions, I doubt we will ever see it used...


Only if could stop farming Hell and Angels Gate in Hellgate London...
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 10:56:20 AM
Could someone explain to me how I might be able to make troop which looks like a horse, uses the same skeleton, and shares the same hitbox? I've been messing with the skins, but all I can get is a game crash upon entering any scene with that troop type.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 21, 2007, 10:58:43 AM
Could someone explain to me how I might be able to make troop which looks like a horse, uses the same skeleton, and shares the same hitbox? I've been messing with the skins, but all I can get is a game crash upon entering any scene with that troop type.

You can't, unfortunately. It's impossible.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 12:12:08 PM
Could someone explain to me how I might be able to make troop which looks like a horse, uses the same skeleton, and shares the same hitbox? I've been messing with the skins, but all I can get is a game crash upon entering any scene with that troop type.

You can't, unfortunately. It's impossible.
You can use the horse skeleton, which forces it to use to horse hit box, so why shouldn't you be able to?


And by the way, about the Greek fire thing- It's possible without using scene props at all. I've been playing around with particle systems these past few days, and they can now be fired off via a script, with no scene props or other agents of emission involved, and there is no limit to how many can be spawned. Check out the particle system commands for the new version. They're incredible.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 01:16:06 PM
Pardon the double post, but
(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6840/flamitywrathcn9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 21, 2007, 02:47:34 PM
You can use the horse skeleton, which forces it to use to horse hit box, so why shouldn't you be able to?

You can't force it to use the horse skeleton scriptwise, I believe that's causing your crash. Also, troop agents have always had different hitboxes from horse agents regardless of their skeleton. It's hardcoded and as far as I'm aware hasn't changed.


Pardon the double post, but

Seriously, I'd consider restarting work on Storymod if you joined up.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Highlander on November 21, 2007, 03:01:45 PM
Could someone explain to me how I might be able to make troop which looks like a horse, uses the same skeleton, and shares the same hitbox? I've been messing with the skins, but all I can get is a game crash upon entering any scene with that troop type.

You can't, unfortunately. It's impossible.
You can use the horse skeleton, which forces it to use to horse hit box, so why shouldn't you be able to?
The problem is, that the horse has different animations and "actions". For example: There is no animation for firing a crossbow and stuff.

Is this catapult really better than a scene prop as a projectile?
I have two questions:
Have you tried out, if agent position is moving together with the ragdol? I noticed that the game cam doesn't move on if your body falls down a wall or something.
The other thing is, can you actually target this catapult, so it fires at a certain position (or at least near the position)?
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 03:14:49 PM
The problem is, that the horse has different animations and "actions". For example: There is no animation for firing a crossbow and stuff.
The only animation it needs for this is a death animation, which it has.

Is this catapult really better than a scene prop as a projectile?
Less than a dozen lines of code, run once, and with physical realism is definitely better than several dozen lines of code, fired several times a second, and without physical realism.

Have you tried out, if agent position is moving together with the ragdol? I noticed that the game cam doesn't move on if your body falls down a wall or something.
The other thing is, can you actually target this catapult, so it fires at a certain position (or at least near the position)?
1. Yes. That's how I got the fire to follow the corpse in the above screenie.
2. To an extent, yes. I could easily make the trajectory lower or higher or rotate the base of the catapult. It wouldn't really work with a targeting reticle, but would rather be more the way a real catapult would be aimed; largely by trial and error.

Seriously, I'd consider restarting work on Storymod if you joined up.
I'll tell you what. Most of my modding consists of little gimmicky things like this. Once I've got this working right, I'll be coding a new ai for my ship combat that will allow ramming. Once I've done that, I'll make your men actually carry the ladders to the wall. Once that's done I'll be working on making explosions that actually explode. (those killed by it are blasted aside) After that I may try to make a mod which consists entirely of mission templates, where the player would never have to deal with a menu or the overland map. I've got an idea for a moving wedge formation for cavalry. All of these codes will be released to the public. If you have some gimmicky codes in mind for storymod, tell me, and I'll see if I can't figure out a way to make them work. I'll gladly join up with the storymod dev team, but I'm way to ADD to work on things like making 9856132 different siege scenes. Things like making assassination mission templates and catapults and ship combat I can do, though. Just let me know if you need something along those lines done.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Winter on November 21, 2007, 03:59:41 PM
I'll tell you what. Most of my modding consists of little gimmicky things like this. Once I've got this working right, I'll be coding a new ai for my ship combat that will allow ramming. Once I've done that, I'll make your men actually carry the ladders to the wall. Once that's done I'll be working on making explosions that actually explode. (those killed by it are blasted aside) After that I may try to make a mod which consists entirely of mission templates, where the player would never have to deal with a menu or the overland map. I've got an idea for a moving wedge formation for cavalry. All of these codes will be released to the public. If you have some gimmicky codes in mind for storymod, tell me, and I'll see if I can't figure out a way to make them work. I'll gladly join up with the storymod dev team, but I'm way to ADD to work on things like making 9856132 different siege scenes. Things like making assassination mission templates and catapults and ship combat I can do, though. Just let me know if you need something along those lines done.

Among other things, I would certainly have you crafting plenty of siege scenes, which are one of the things I will be needing a lot, and you can include all the gimmicks you want so long as they work. ;)

I personally loathe coding mission templates and placing props, so someone creating assassinations and sieges and stuff like that would be an extremely valuable addition to the team.

As for your moving wedge formation, I've already got code to calculate a wedge for any kind of agent you like, as well as square, line and circle. The code may be a little outdated and contain some mistakes (I'm not good at maths) but could probably come in handy. Be happy to send it to you. Perhaps you could turn it into a full formation system for me. ;)
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 04:54:08 PM
assassinations
You know, I think that'll be my next little project.

As for your moving wedge formation, I've already got code to calculate a wedge for any kind of agent you like, as well as square, line and circle. The code may be a little outdated and contain some mistakes (I'm not good at maths) but could probably come in handy. Be happy to send it to you. Perhaps you could turn it into a full formation system for me. ;)
I have a set of codes for the exact same thing, but I'd love to see yours. I'll gladly create a full formation system.

Count me in.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Fisheye on November 21, 2007, 05:55:25 PM
You've probably already tried this: maybe you could spawn the troop (mounted), kill the troop, and leave the horse?
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 06:23:23 PM
You've probably already tried this: maybe you could spawn the troop (mounted), kill the troop, and leave the horse?
The dead one is the one which will be catapulted. I have to kill the horse either way. That may work, though, given the agent_get_horse_command. Thanks for the idea, I'll try it out.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Ron Losey on November 21, 2007, 06:45:22 PM
Are the horses affected by the ragdoll physics?
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 21, 2007, 07:26:06 PM
Yes, they are. I've got it working. It turns out my only error with the horses was that I used spawn_item instead of spawn_horse. Now I have a new problem, though. The horses tend to get their legs caught in the catapult rather than being properly launched. I'm not sure how to deal with this, except that I'm pretty sure making a different catapult model ought to take care of it.
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: fujiwara on November 22, 2007, 09:19:33 AM
The horses tend to get their legs caught in the catapult rather than being properly launched.

 :shock:  :lol: This is sig fodder, friends!
Title: Re: Catapults
Post by: Grodsgenhaigen on November 22, 2007, 08:31:28 PM
You should see it actually happen. It creates a very dramatic amount of flopping, especially once their legs untangle and they fall down into the machinery of the catapult.