Questions / Suggestions

[Sock]

So, I'm a huge fan of ASOIAF, and recently started playing the mod. Great work's been done so far, and I'm sorry to see that those who started the mod wont be able to finish it, but I look forward to seeing what Clegane will do when the mod system for 1.xxx is released.

I looked around, but didn't see a thread specifically for suggestions/requests. So far, I really only have one. This idea is directly taken from The Last Days, which is that there is a faction point system, where you gain points after joining a faction every week. The ammount of points you get is related to rank, and your rank raises by doing quests for the faction heroes. I would like to see access to some (not all, of course) of the Valerian weapons tied to purchasing them with faction points.




EDIT (Clegane): Changed thread title.

[HokieBT]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the suggestion!  Clegane is going to be the official leader going forward, so he'll make the final call on any changes, but we've talked a little bit about the next step for this mod so I might be able to comment.  Basically, I think the next step needs to be focused on getting this mod working on 1.x which is going to take a little bit of time.  The module system needs to be released and after that we have to port and complete Sparehawk's code since right now its incomplete.  Once that is done I think I'd vote to focus on overall gameplay concepts (items, factions, troop balancing, hero's, textures, etc) before moving on to implementing stuff like specific quests, large changes to the dialogs/menu's, or something like a faction point system.  It does sound like a cool concept, but it might require a decent amount of scripting, so I'd vote to focus and finish the core design before moving on to more specific stuff.  But this is Cleagane's call, so he might have a different opinion.     If you do have any comments on how the troops/factions can be balanced better, any gameplay issues, or any other suggestions feel free to post them.  thx!

[Sock]

Ah, of course, I wasn't expecting anything within the next couple weeks. Just something on the back burner.

As far as troop ideas, I do have a few ideas. The first, a small one, is to rename the Tyrell Knights to "Flower Knights" or something akin to that. Or even Rose Knights.

I'm seeing how the factions are currently set up; Renly and Stannis being the Barethon faction, though I wonder if we really even need that. I can easily see combining the Barethons and Tyrells, and having them as the largest faction, at war with Dorne (through Highgarden) and the Lannisters. Though, in that instance I would leave Stannis out of the game. Or, could simply advance time slightly and have Renly out of the picture, in which case there'd be a division between the forces loyal to Highgarden, and the Tyrells would be their own faction.

As per the books, if I recall right Renly took his mounted forces to meet with Stannis, leaving his foot behind. That said, could give Stannis access to the more powerful mounted units, while Tyrell has the wide variety of foot units; pikemen, archers, and infanty.

Also, I do not know if this is possible, but... I think that it'd be great to focus on certain "special troops" that only certain faction leaders have. For example, King Joffery would have 5 Kingsguard (and, thus, the Kingsguard would be incredibly well skilled and equiped, making them a force to be reconned with, even with small numbers). Could even look into giving them special mounts, that far exceed the capabilities of other mounts. Part of me cringes at seeing so many Kingsguard troops in the current installment. Same thing with the Rainbow Guard.

I have not had much experience with the Dornish, so I'll refrain on suggestions for them until I deal with them.

As for the Lannisters, I love them as is. I do think we should give the Kingsguard something extra, and not have them as some generic troop, but the Lannisters should still dominate with heavy horse and lance. Some troop placement seems off with them, though. Tyrion, for example. I think it'd be extremely fitting for him to be armed with a force of bandits of all kinds. Likewise for Janos Slynt, giving him a force of Goldcloaks (pike and spear foot mostly).

The Starks are a tough one. Their Northern Champions are fantastic foot, but their Heavy Horse (who use mostly swords) are always, always obliterated by the heavy horse of the other factions, and their archers reach the end of their advancement very quickly. I have few suggestions for them, short of perhaps giving the Northmen troops the best stats (high health, high power strike and iron flesh, very high strength and agility), but lower skills.

Not sure how feasible this idea is, but, is it possible (or too much work) to look into changing the troops that can be recruited from certain villages? Looking only at the Starks right now, but...

Towns near the Twins can be used to recruit Frey Knights, which are numerous and cheap, but not particularly well geared or skilled. Short advancement path, from recruit -> soldier -> knight.
Towns near the neck can be used to recruit Reeds, which are light armored archers and/or spearmen. Short advancement, easy to bring down, but devestating attack power.
Towns nearest to the Wall can be where to get the hardiest foot soldiers, Umbers. Longest advancement path, but it leads to very well powered foot soldiers.
Any other towns in the north are just "generic northmen", and can be used for the average troops.

More specific troop recruitment would be great, in my opinion, but I'm not sure how much work that would be.

Also, lastly. Why isn't Hodor a hero that I can take around with me?

[Zenosknight]

Also, lastly. Why isn't Hodor a hero that I can take around with me?

He's too busy carrying Bran around the north.....



spoiler? 

[Sock]

Not yet! Robb's still alive.

[Clegane]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the suggestion!  Clegane is going to be the official leader going forward, so he'll make the final call on any changes, but we've talked a little bit about the next step for this mod so I might be able to comment.  Basically, I think the next step needs to be focused on getting this mod working on 1.x which is going to take a little bit of time.  The module system needs to be released and after that we have to port and complete Sparehawk's code since right now its incomplete.  Once that is done I think I'd vote to focus on overall gameplay concepts (items, factions, troop balancing, hero's, textures, etc) before moving on to implementing stuff like specific quests, large changes to the dialogs/menu's, or something like a faction point system.  It does sound like a cool concept, but it might require a decent amount of scripting, so I'd vote to focus and finish the core design before moving on to more specific stuff.  But this is Cleagane's call, so he might have a different opinion.     If you do have any comments on how the troops/factions can be balanced better, any gameplay issues, or any other suggestions feel free to post them.  thx!

HokieBT is right, also this thread is a nice idea.

*

I've planned to re-do the troop trees, Kingsguards will no longer be a Lannister factional troop, and Tyrell / Baratheon (Stormland) troop trees will be completely redone and outfited, no more stormland horse archers and no more scale armor/ middle eastern Tyrell outfitted troops. Companions will also be changed, forget about carrying poor old maester Pycelle around or "Littlefinger".

Not yet! Robb's still alive.

Now thats a Spoiler  .


PD: Sticky.

[Giledhil]

Sticky.

OK, so there's a couple of suggestions :

-Traveling speed needs to be drastically lowered; you can't travel across Westeros in two days.

-Rainbow guards and Kingsguards have, IMO, nothing to do in the normal troop tree.

-Stannis Baratheon must have his own faction.

-How to use the new "claimant" system for ASoIaF? By changing Lannisters to The Iron Throne, and add miss Targaryen as claimant to the throne? Or just ignoring it?

-Finding a way to block the path through The Twins is very important.

-According to the books, the Others must be held a little more time behind the Wall.

-Mance Raider's invasion could be implemented.

-What about adding the Fellowship Without Banners (new outlaw group)?

Companions will also be changed, forget about carrying poor old maester Pycelle around or "Littlefinger".

What about Sansa or Arya? They could be good Lv1 companions, I think that companions must be low skilled characters (like Gendry), IMO it's good to remove Pycelle, but Clegane and  Forel have to go out too.

NB : sorry for my english, i'm french 

[Sock]

When this mod was first released, I made comments about how I disliked being able to recruit characters specifically and actively mentioned in the books (for example, Renly was out of the picture when The Hound left the Lannisters). If you want, I could comb through the books and find a few characters mentioned once, but never again (there was one such character that I remember, a Free-Knight who was with Catelyn and Tyrion on their path through the Mountains of the Moon, though his name escapes me at the moment).

There were, doubtlessly, more than a few knights mentioned at the Hand's tourney that could be used, too.

[Night Ninja]

The Tyrells are the heavy cavalry faction at the time of the books. The background material states that the Reach is one of the richest and most populated regions and the flower of chivalry can be found there. They also have an impressive ratio of cavalry to foot. All this does not come cheap, since they have no natural boundaries to protect them from aggression from their neighbours. Stylistically, their armour should definitely be modified to more Western sorts. They have a fairly large fleet, with Paxter Redwyne controlling the bulk of it.

The Westerlanders (Lannisters) can also field an impressive amount of cavalry, though they're not as reliant on their cavalry arm. Tywin Lannister appears to utilize a proportionate mix of troops in his army, and his main army is highly disciplined compared to most other troops. Kingsguards in their present incrnation should definitely be out, they do not fit in any way with the background material. I wouldn't expect to see the gold cloaks on the battlefield; they're watchmen, not soldiers; Lord Tywin himself esxpressed an opinion to this effect. Also Janos Slynt should definitely stick around in Kings Landing until he's exiled. The Lannisters do not have a great deal of strength at sea, but what they possess is still fairly formidable.  They're also fairly tricky to attack, since the main routes into the Westerlands are guarded by formidable castles, and any man who can break through into the plains would find himself faced with the daunting prospect of taking Casterly Rock.

The Lannister and the Tyrell lands have been relatively untouched by the war, and should be fairly prosperous.


The Riverlands and the Vale have similar army compositions and numbers (they both have a fair ratio of foot:horse). The Riverlands are one of the richer regions in Westeros, and the defensive advantages that the rivers afford the Tullys can prove to be telling in a prolonged war. However, at present, the Riverlands have been ravaged by war and winter is coming. They have a great deal of riverine transports, but no navy to speak of.

The Arryns have a convenient mountain range between them and the rest of Westeros, and should be bloody hard to attack. They have been untouched by the war, and have yet to commit themselves to one side despite the urging of some of their vassals. However, their lands should be plagued by constant incursions of mountain bandits, which probably step up after Tyrion supplies them with arms and armour. No mention is made of the strength of their fleets, but they shoud possess something on par with or slightly inferior to that of the Westerlands.

The Dornish have always been separated from the rest of Westeros by culture and geography. They still have old unresolved feuds with the Stormlands and the Reach. In general, the Dornish like to use spears and bows, and also field a great number of lightly armoured horsemen (Khergits with some footmen). The desert that lies between them and the rest of Westeros is a formidable obstacle, and there is much truth in the Dornish axiom that the sun and spear are their greatest weapons. When employing their favoured hit-and-run tactics, Dornish forces can bleed out any invader and leave him to bake on the deserts. It is relatively poor in terms of population, but still able to field more forces than the Stormlands. They also have the closest ties with the Free Cities out of all the factions. IIRC, their naval strength is not mentioned, but they should posses a fair-sized fleet and a large number of merchant ships.

The lords of the Stormlands can probably field the least impressive armies of the south (inferior foot:horse ratio, inferior numbers), but their forces are not to be underestimated. They can field a hard core of veteran troops, with most of their soldiers having seen at least some combat. The castles of the Stormlands are also very formidable, and constant skirmishes with the Dornish have inured the people to the rigors of warfare. Again, no mention of naval strength, but it shouldn't be too much. No horse archers up the wazoo ffs, seeing them all made me die a little inside.



The Greyjoys possess a great amount of strategic mobility, and their forces, though few in number, are not to be trifled with. A life of reaving and fighting has left most of their men battle-hardened, and the system of thrallhood ensures that they have no lack of labour. They use very little cavalry, but they possess a great number of ships. Even though most of them are not suited for ship-to-ship warfare, they provide the Greyjoys with an immense advantage when resupplying positions close to the coast, and a canny commander could sail out of sight of land and rush in for a sudden strike. The Iron Fleet, which is composed of the best sailors and ships of the Isles, is a formidable force, and attempting to take it on should be a prickly proposition even when you possess superior numbers. Though the Iron Isles are relatively poor and sparsely populated, the Greyjoys can still field a fairly large force of fighting men. Their dominance of the seas means that it is fairly tricky to attack them, though a determined foe could force a landing.

The Starks control the largest expanse of territory, but all this comes at a price. The North is relatively sparsely populated and not very rich, though it does produce some notable goods. They cannot field as many men as one would think (comparable to the Vale, the Westerlands and the Riverlands, superior to the Dornish and Stormlands, and inferior to the Reach), and have a rather poor cavalry:foot ratio (approx 1:3), and do not have much heavy horse. They do possess some natural defensive advantages. Moat Cailin, which sits at a convenient point, appears to be an old and ailing bunch of towers at first. However, it commands the causeway that leads to the North, and any attackers would have to wade though swamp and marsh while facing a withering hail of arrows. The large area that one must conquer is also another factor, and the Northern snows could prove annoying to an unprepared invader. They have no fleet to speak of since Brandon the Burner put the torch to this father's fleet. The results of Lord Manderly's proposition to build ships at White Harbor is unknown.


Westeros is a bit of a cultural anomaly, somewhat in the same manner as Calradia. You have weapons and armour that were separated by centuries in our timeline co-existing in Westeros, without rendering the older forms obsolescent or obsolete. Full plate armour is fairly common among the aristocracy, though some depictions have shown even great lords clad in mail and plate. They have also been known to use pikes and halberds but not in a fully integrated manner. Heavy cavalry still reigns the battlefield, though well-disciplined foot and can see them off with moderate losses. Horse archers are common amongst the Dornish, and it is possible that some other factions might have adopted them in limited numbers. Mounted archers, however, have always been a mainstay of most armies (refer to graphic novel for Hedge Knight).
~

EDIT: Calous has said that he'll work on the companions, so you won't need to see Pycelle administering to your wounded in the future.

[Jheral]

I've planned to re-do the troop trees, Kingsguards will no longer be a Lannister factional troop, and Tyrell / Baratheon (Stormland) troop trees will be completely redone and outfited, no more stormland horse archers and no more scale armor/ middle eastern Tyrell outfitted troops. Companions will also be changed, forget about carrying poor old maester Pycelle around or "Littlefinger".

Sounds good. It always bothered me that all the companions were major characters from the books, since most of them would have no reason whatsoever to sign up with a band of mercenaries (with a few exceptions).  Especially not Pycelle or Littlefinger, since they were both on the king's council, and as such pretty much running the kingdom.

Changes to the troop trees would definately be welcome, as well. The troops that are in the mod at the moment is basically the native factions with new names (some differences, i know, but basically that). I'd suggest looking over the thread dealing with adjusting the troops, as we have had some interesting discussion on this subject.

http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,1261.0.html

[Clegane]

I've planned to re-do the troop trees, Kingsguards will no longer be a Lannister factional troop, and Tyrell / Baratheon (Stormland) troop trees will be completely redone and outfited, no more stormland horse archers and no more scale armor/ middle eastern Tyrell outfitted troops. Companions will also be changed, forget about carrying poor old maester Pycelle around or "Littlefinger".

Sounds good. It always bothered me that all the companions were major characters from the books, since most of them would have no reason whatsoever to sign up with a band of mercenaries (with a few exceptions).  Especially not Pycelle or Littlefinger, since they were both on the king's council, and as such pretty much running the kingdom.

Changes to the troop trees would definately be welcome, as well. The troops that are in the mod at the moment is basically the native factions with new names (some differences, i know, but basically that). I'd suggest looking over the thread dealing with adjusting the troops, as we have had some interesting discussion on this subject.

http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,1261.0.html

Just browsed through it. Will keep it at hand 

[Jheral]

Another important thing  to keep in mind is that if the RCM is still going to be used (and I very much hope it is, as it adds a lot to gameplay, in my opinion), you might want to consider making it a priority. As it changes a lot of things as far as equipment is concerned, a rebalance of the factions and their troops will no doubt be neccessary after impementing it.

Just something to consider, before starting to work on the factions.

[Clegane]

I would need a debrief on the RCM (why use it, what does it exactly do, how do i implement it).

[Phelerox]

I would need a debrief on the RCM (why use it, what does it exactly do, how do i implement it).

You can probably find a deal of information here: http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,348.0.html
And of course in the aSoIaF RCM-thread: http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php/topic,1271.0.html

[Night Ninja]

In my opinion, RCM greatly overpowers certain equipment at the expense of others. Using it would entail rebalancing of all the items in the mod to better fit with Westeros.